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  1.    #1  
    Goal - the state of affairs that a plan is intended to achieve.

    So, in thinking about some of the increasingly negative feelings of some here at PreCentral.net, I have come to a conclusion:

    The naysayers must have some inside information, are clairvoyant, read tea leaves, or are otherwise "in the know" of the inner workings of Palm.

    How else would they be able to speak with such conviction about how Palm has failed and that they, Palm, are in un untenable position? It is remarkable to be sure that Palm detractors can proclaim the downfall of a company based purely on speculation of what Palm's goals might be and how short they have fallen of acheiving said goals.

    For a moment, I would like to speak to what the goals for Palm were in January 2009, and how things have progressed to this point.

    1. Reinvent a failing platform and in the process do it in a way that is different from all others.

    One would be hard pressed to deny that WebOs is a different platform than any out there, and WebOs is so far away from PalmOs as to be as unrecognizable as a sand castle after high tide. Goal complete.

    2. Create a following for this new platform.

    I give you PreCentral.net. Yes it was TreoCentral.net, but you can see how quickly the Pre caught on. At the moment of writing this, two-thousand users are here right now. When 1.3.1 is released that number will balloon many thousand more. Goal Complete.

    3. Maintain following by updating WebOs and incorporating what users want.

    1.0.2, 1.0.3, 1.0.4, 1.1.0.................1.3.1.
    You can say that Palm has taken its time on some of the things some users have been clamoring for, but the updates have come. For an OS that has less than one half of one year in public use, it is very mature.

    4. Lauch other WebOs devices on more carriers.

    Pre, Pixi and maybe more early next year. Europe is on board as well as North America. Palm will soon have a foothold in Asia (see Vietnam).

    Goal incomplete, but on track.

    5. Stay in the public eye.

    palm pre - Google News

    The point is, by all accounts WebOs is a success. Palm hasn't sold millions of WebOs phones, but that is not a goal at this point. Sell phones that people want, and make a profit.

    I say to you Palm,

    Well Done.
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  2. bruba's Avatar
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    #2  
    Good points. Palm is on the right track and they have good intentions. I think some people expected Palm to be on top in six months. Of course that didn't happen.

    Look where Palm was a year ago...! It's a cliché, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Some people seem to want the "it-device" all the time. At some point the hype has to fade away (it always does) and be replaced by steady sales. I think most people won't question Palm will be in the top 3 of smartphone OS's for a while (with Google and Apple). With the right moves I think they still have a bright future ahead.
  3. cas_esq's Avatar
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    #3  
    6. Keep cas from bailing after years of PalmOS loyalty.

    If it wasn't a goal, it should have been. Goal complete.
  4. bruba's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Here is what the owners of Palm, Inc., a publicly traded company, think about the value of the company since the launch of the Pre. I'm not sure they got the memo about Palm meeting their internal goals. I guess there must be some external factors that influence how Palm is doing.

    Perhaps those of us who aren't "in the know" should not be commenting on this whether or not we own stock or not. We could just buy the stock on faith and trust Palm's good intentions. That would be risking a lot more than the cost of an ETF to get out of a smartphone contract.

    Note that if you strongly disagree with the price indicated by the blue line then congratulations - you are going to be rich. All you have to do is to make the appropriate investment based on your superior knowledge.

    Every trader knows rule 1. past performance doesn't mean anything. That stock can be 25 in 6 months (could just as well be 5, who knows).

    Also, it's still up several 100%'s since its all time low last winter. And it's almost the same price it was when the Pre launched - arguably when it had the most hype.
  5. #5  
    looking at the graph... i think it can be used to show that goal number three is not being met.

    many loyal followers but many voicing their needs for more... bug fixes, features, and appstore and you can see that in all the posts lately as well as more and more posts of people jumping platforms so maybe barely maintaining the current following but not keeping momentum from launch because it is getting overshadowed by products like android, droid and hero and now BB OPENGL ES support, etc.

    If number three was cleary met then the graph wouldnt look like this and they would be holding their own against the recent advertising blitz from android.

    Last edited by donm527; 11/11/2009 at 12:34 AM.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    looking at the graph... i think it can be used to show that goal number three is not being met.
    ...
    If number three was cleary met then the graph wouldnt look like this and they would be holding their own against the recent advertising blitz from android.
    Wait, what? Stock analysts and traders now go by the rate of updates to a platform?

    Well then you better sell that MSFT stock now! Windows Mobile won't be getting an update until sometime 2010! They're doomed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Here is what the owners of Palm, Inc., a publicly traded company, think about the value of the company since the launch of the Pre. I'm not sure they got the memo about Palm meeting their internal goals. I guess there must be some external factors that influence how Palm is doing.

    Perhaps those of us who aren't "in the know" should not be commenting on this whether or not we own stock or not. We could just buy the stock on faith and trust Palm's good intentions. That would be risking a lot more than the cost of an ETF to get out of a smartphone contract.

    Note that if you strongly disagree with the price indicated by the blue line then congratulations - you are going to be rich. All you have to do is to make the appropriate investment based on your superior knowledge.

    Palm is not wholey owned by the individual share owners. There are large groups who are majority owners of Palm, and they make the decisions. They are the ones to be concerned about. The ones that make the plans and execute them.

    I could own 1000 shares of stock, and that gets me into the yearly shareholder meeting, but does not get me into the planning sessions of Palm.

    Thinking in a big picture sort of way is how companies are run. Shareholders without the ability to see this are the ones that end up on the short end of their stock purchase. Stock price over six months does not indicate the health of the company. A company can still be profitable and have their stock go down.

    Perhaps, changing the smartphone world in one day, one month, or one year is something within your realm of ability. If this is so, maybe you might want to share your findings with Palm. I am not so bullheaded to ignore the fact that there may be someone out there smarter than I am.

    I think that you have some valid points, and maybe Palm could execute their plan better, and that is good. As long as there is room for improvement, there will be people who will aim a little higher and work a little harder to make that improvement a reality.
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  8. #8  
    well, palm is purely a speculative stock at this point in time and stocks like these rise and fall depending on how their products are doing and in this case palm only has one product so it's not a great stretch to use that as an indicator of how pre is doing.

    clearly even before the launch palm price had risen beyond its actual worth on hype from the CES show... but from launch and shortly after the huge explosion is clearly on optimism of the pre and it hopeful success against iphone. but since then momentum has turned as well as optimism and also new competition and it's gone back to launch levels.

    if you want to look at msft, its always been a boring stock lately because its just a solid company but you can see recent price move too and can probably link that to windows 7.

    look at motorola too before the droid campaign and now.

    but going back to palm, they only have one product right now and the stock is reflected off that one product. without pre, the stock and company would be dead, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Wait, what? Stock analysts and traders now go by the rate of updates to a platform?

    Well then you better sell that MSFT stock now! Windows Mobile won't be getting an update until sometime 2010! They're doomed!
    Last edited by donm527; 11/11/2009 at 02:14 AM.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Here is what the owners of Palm, Inc., a publicly traded company, think about the value of the company since the launch of the Pre. I'm not sure they got the memo about Palm meeting their internal goals. I guess there must be some external factors that influence how Palm is doing.

    Perhaps those of us who aren't "in the know" should not be commenting on this whether or not we own stock or not. We could just buy the stock on faith and trust Palm's good intentions. That would be risking a lot more than the cost of an ETF to get out of a smartphone contract.

    Note that if you strongly disagree with the price indicated by the blue line then congratulations - you are going to be rich. All you have to do is to make the appropriate investment based on your superior knowledge.
    Palm's goals were likely not set at the launch of the Pre, but well before that. Here's a snapshot of their stock over the last year. It paints a different picture:

    Someone could have posted a smug statement similar to yours back in November of last year, and they would have been wrong.

    Stock prices, especially short term stock prices, don't necessarily indicate whether or not a company is "achieving their goals". As a matter of fact, they indicate a lot over things much more than goal achievement.
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  10. bruba's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    clearly even before the launch palm price had risen beyond its actual worth... but from launch and shortly after the huge explosion is clearly on optimism of the pre and it hopeful success against iphone. but since then momentum has turned as well as optimism and also new competition and it's gone back to launch levels.
    If you look at Palm's stock history you see the price is actually pretty much back to normal, instead of beyond its worth. It was below its worth before, since people didn't know webOS and the Palm Pre were coming. I agree the stock somewhat indicates how the company is perceived, but disproving point 3 with it is a stretch.
  11. #11  
    since i am up late 'trying' to do work... i'll pick on this a little more...

    number 5... if you go to the link to google news and read some of the news articles that come up...

    Droid Sales Are Fine, But Seem Familiar
    I'm Putting my Palm Pre on Notice
    Droid Beats Pre, iphone Beats Droid--For Now (ouch)
    Palm Pre: Several units have multiple dead pixels

    it's not the kind of news you want there mixed in with the good ones but the good ones are not dominating the list like they use to and other names are popping in and not including pre.

    number 4... launching devices on more carriers... i have to say so far this is a fail. before canadian and especially before UK launch I said they have to fix the bugs and have to get the app store out of beta. when they launched in UK with a LOWER firmware than US and STILL had not resolved the too many card error AND app store still in beta, they really hurt themselves. geez they UK has Oreo too and probably the same hw complaints here too they cant improve.

    Again maybe couldnt fix them in time because as more time goes we see how REALLY REALLY underdeveloped the OS and appstore was (not beta but ALPHA). but I think they hurt the phone by releasing to UK now instead of holding off until 1.3.1 and app store in better shape for a proper launch.

    Because if you read the Pre GSM section, it sounds like they didnt sell that many and they didnt market any better than here and with no apps they cant sell it like iphone and you see in canada the Pre is now $100! because it cant hold up against the iphone. Launching the phone as-is has HURT the value of Pre. my argument here is that if they had app store rocking and i think bugs worked out then they may be able to fight and hold it's price and now the phone is tarnished and there is competition showing more features and apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypetey View Post
    Goal -
    4. Lauch other WebOs devices on more carriers.

    Pre, Pixi and maybe more early next year. Europe is on board as well as North America. Palm will soon have a foothold in Asia (see Vietnam).

    Goal incomplete, but on track.

    5. Stay in the public eye.

    palm pre - Google News

    The point is, by all accounts WebOs is a success. Palm hasn't sold millions of WebOs phones, but that is not a goal at this point. Sell phones that people want, and make a profit.

    I say to you Palm,

    Well Done.
    Last edited by donm527; 11/11/2009 at 02:26 AM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypetey View Post
    ...
    Perhaps, changing the smartphone world in one day, one month, or one year is something within your realm of ability. If this is so, maybe you might want to share your findings with Palm. I am not so bullheaded to ignore the fact that there may be someone out there smarter than I am.
    ...
    Booya!! You said that so much better than I have (though I keep trying)...
  13. #13  
    Yes. The definitely Goal Compete on that one...

    Completely different platform and I do like WebOS...

    But so far away from PalmOS that for some are not able to embrace it and still stick with their Treos waiting for WebOS to meet their needs.

    Not marketed a "business" type phone like BB without proper Calendar/PIM performance that you see people talk about all the time.

    Not a "game phone" like they call iphone because it has no GPU support.

    They categorize it as a phone for "the Busy person, bing bing bing." *** does that mean? lol.

    Sorry, must be getting late and feeling punch drunk

    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypetey View Post
    Goal - the state of affairs that a plan is intended to achieve.

    1. Reinvent a failing platform and in the process do it in a way that is different from all others.

    One would be hard pressed to deny that WebOs is a different platform than any out there, and WebOs is so far away from PalmOs as to be as unrecognizable as a sand castle after high tide. Goal complete.
  14. #14  
    Pogey, you made some decent points and you worded them well. But (and i'm sure you knew there was a 'but' coming) i've had the goal of being able to change that damn 'DA-DOING!' sound for every single little thing for almost half a year now. I haven't met that goal. Nor have i been able to meet the goal of being nagged for missed alerts.
    The only nags i get are from my wife.
  15.    #15  
    Palm has provided a fairly decent OS and two phones that are unique for many reasons. I believe that we are at the beginning of something good with Palm. I am content with riding the wave no matter how small it is right now. Maybe the wind will pick up...
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  16. #16  
    Wouldn't the following also ostensibly be goals of Palm when launching the Pre exclusively on Sprint?

    1) Outsell the Palm Centro - At this point (five months after release), Palm had formally announced that they had sold over one million Centros. While the price was half that of the launch Pre price, it launched with WAY less fanfare and advertising and was running an older OS and much less capable hardware. Now the Pre sells for the same price as the Centro at Amazon, Wirefly, and bit more than that at Sprint and other retailers. Still no announcement of a million. Not a good sign, and indicative of a goal not met.

    2) Be Sprint's flagship phone for as long as exclusivity remained intact - Sprint's push behind the Pre lasted about 3-4 months, after which they doubled down on Android (like almost every other US carrier) to lead their consumer smartphone lineup. Sure, Sprint will launch the Pixi as well, but it's clear where their priority currently is, and it only makes sense for them. But for Palm...not a good sign, and indicative of a goal not being fully met.

    3) Launch an app platform that at least is somewhat on par with competitors given the "easy to develop" for WebOS platform - iPhone's closed system way outpaced everybody, but at least Palm could keep pace with Android, right? Well, at the 5-6 month after release stage, Android had about 1500-2500 apps. Palm a mere fraction despite having "paid" apps long before Android did. Palm still doesn't have a real SDK out, and no impending date for one. Not a good sign, and indicative of a goal not being fully met.
  17. bruba's Avatar
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    #17  
    Latest in the stock argument:

    Palm: ^ +9%
    Merrill Lynch: BUY ($20 target price)
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Wouldn't the following also ostensibly be goals of Palm when launching the Pre exclusively on Sprint?

    1) Outsell the Palm Centro - At this point (five months after release), Palm had formally announced that they had sold over one million Centros. While the price was half that of the launch Pre price, it launched with WAY less fanfare and advertising and was running an older OS and much less capable hardware. Now the Pre sells for the same price as the Centro at Amazon, Wirefly, and bit more than that at Sprint and other retailers. Still no announcement of a million. Not a good sign, and indicative of a goal not met.

    2) Be Sprint's flagship phone for as long as exclusivity remained intact - Sprint's push behind the Pre lasted about 3-4 months, after which they doubled down on Android (like almost every other US carrier) to lead their consumer smartphone lineup. Sure, Sprint will launch the Pixi as well, but it's clear where their priority currently is, and it only makes sense for them. But for Palm...not a good sign, and indicative of a goal not being fully met.

    3) Launch an app platform that at least is somewhat on par with competitors given the "easy to develop" for WebOS platform - iPhone's closed system way outpaced everybody, but at least Palm could keep pace with Android, right? Well, at the 5-6 month after release stage, Android had about 1500-2500 apps. Palm a mere fraction despite having "paid" apps long before Android did. Palm still doesn't have a real SDK out, and no impending date for one. Not a good sign, and indicative of a goal not being fully met.
    1) The Centro was always cheap and is now $29. You're minimizing the $100 to $200 difference in price to make your argument make any sense at all. Most people that bought the Centro bought it because it was a pretty cool phone for pretty cheap. The Pre, even at the current $150, isn't "cheap." Palm made the Centro for cheap and made money by selling a lot of it. That was the plan with that phone. It helped them stay afloat, but they were still taking on water with the Centro.

    2) I don't know that the Android phones have taken the Pre's place as Sprint's flagship product. The Pre is still much more visible in Sprint's commercials. I don't think I've seen any Android phones in Sprint's commercials at all, actually. You wouldn't expect Sprint to say no to money-making opportunities, like Android, no matter how successful the Pre is. AT&T still sells other smartphones, in spite of the Iphone's popularity.

    3) The app catalog, it seems to me, is more of a means to an end, rather than the end itself. It's something that can help their ultimate goal of relevance, and, I agree, they haven't advantaged themselves fully of the opportunity the app catalog presents.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    number 4... launching devices on more carriers... i have to say so far this is a fail. before canadian and especially before UK launch I said they have to fix the bugs and have to get the app store out of beta. when they launched in UK with a LOWER firmware than US and STILL had not resolved the too many card error AND app store still in beta, they really hurt themselves. geez they UK has Oreo too and probably the same hw complaints here too they cant improve.
    they haven't just launched in the UK and Canada they also have launched in Germany.

    Additionally, Movistar has launched the pre in Spain and Latin America is due to follow, GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL! GOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAL! GOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
  20. #20  
    well, let's hope palm comes out with 1.3.1 update and hope app store is out of beta next month before other countries follow suit and sell the pre for $100.

    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    they haven't just launched in the UK and Canada they also have launched in Germany.

    Additionally, Movistar has launched the pre in Spain and Latin America is due to follow, GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL! GOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAL! GOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
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