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  1. #21  
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    First, I think it is a little unfair to say the Pre has lost momentum because of the lack of stories about it lately. Android is the new thing on the block, so of course it is going to garner a lot of attention. Perhaps the Pre is the little engine that could.



    I believe you meant to say "illiterate" not "literate" right?
    No, not really. I should have meant the iPhone is really embraced by the computer savvy demographic. I hear a lot of people (mostly older generation) not caring for the iPhone because they are not comfortable with computers in general. At least with a hard-key qwerty, they stand a chance knowing what that might be used for...
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cnote1287 View Post
    So I really dont want to be a downer,
    then don't...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by LACienega View Post
    If thats the case, then Palm is 'F'N stupid.

    How many non english speakers do I get in the store asking for "el blackberry"...a lot! Plus many others who are buying their first smartphone and are first curious about the blackberrys and the "HTC's".

    I wish Palm would have done a much better job with the hardware as far as appearance...when I demonstrate the Pre to someone who is not familiar with mobile technology I have to demonstrate the cards, synergy, and universal search before they go "oh wow" ..and even then they say "hmm...I still dont know about that keyboard"

    Appearance is huge when it comes to purchasing a new device to many!!! ...many dont even know what operating system their device runs on and very few make their decisions based on OS...thats why Sprint focuses heavily on their ReadyNow experience..which is meant to give buyers basic education on how to work their handset.

    and if a person really likes the look of their device...many couldnt care less how complicated the operating system is.
    It also comes down to what "my friend/relative" has or suggested. Many people see the Balckberry by way of an acquaintance who shows them the few things BB does and find it attractive. I have a few co-workers and relatives that NEVER would have considered a Pre, they just defaulted to a BB or iPhone as their next phone because of what their friend told them to get. Once I demonstrated the Pre, how easy it was to use, it's intuitiveness, they were convinced that was what they wanted or high on their list of consideration.
  5. #25  
    A few thoughts:

    Palm is nowhere near the "fat middle." The problem with the Pre's momentum is that the iPhone sucks the air out of the room every time. Palm tied their destiny to the iPhone by openly taking it on and copying many of its popular features and hacking iTunes. Palm tried to build a better iPhone with a keyboard. They will forever be compared to the iPhone. Their fault. What has Apple done lately? The introduced the 3GS and the $99 3G. They recently announced another world beating quarter that defied the recession. They are knocking at the door to become the number one smartphone. They should overtake BB next year. Their "closed" app development has just produced the one hundred thousandth app. That's what's happening to the Pre's momentum.

    Two years ago, there was no consumer smartphone market. The greatest thing Apple did was to introduce the consumer to the smartphone. Everyone laughed at the prospect. Now, everyone, including Palm, is trying to get a piece of the newly created consumer smartphone market. Apple will always be in the conversation because it created the market. Everyone else is responding, not leading. If palm wants to regain momentum, they have to deliver something many times better than the iPhone. They originally gained momentum by making those types of claims. They lost the momentum because they could not live up to them. The same has been true for every would be iPhone killer. Now, it seems, all Palm can do to get some attention is to throw rocks at iTunes: a poor strategy for glass house dwellers.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The full-page color newspaper ads for Sprint I've been seeing don't even feature the Pre anymore. (3 other phones are shown) Has Sprint given up on the Pre?
    That would be the ironic turn of the century. Sprint thinks Palm is a loser!

    In other news, the Titanic accuses the Hindenburg of being unsafe!
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The full-page color newspaper ads for Sprint I've been seeing don't even feature the Pre anymore. (3 other phones are shown) Has Sprint given up on the Pre?
    It's nothing as dramatic as that. Their current flagship consumer smartphone (and their most expensive one) is the HTC Hero/Samsung Moment. As far as WebOS, they are also about to launch the Pixi. Why would they emphasize the Pre which is already old news in many ways?

    It is telling however that the top two flagship consumer smartphones on three out of four of the national domestic carriers are Android phones. That's where it's at.
  8. #28  
    This is about bad timing, bad choices and lack of funding. First and foremost Palm was up against it with their finances. The company was on life support after the bad choices it made over the decade (Palm OS lacking and the the WinMo disaster). Palm needed a winner badly. They tried to make a competitor to the Iphone. From what we know of that effort was a a half baked idea at best. Then thankfully they get new people in that make the Pre. In and of itself this was a knockout idea. In execution it has pardon the phrase Sucked round objects. They all knew what the competition was at and where they were going with storage and features.

    What we get a device that was meant to compete with the last generation of devices. Be it embedded or removable storage. The norm now is 16+gb we got 8 gb. 8GB in and of itself is fine, i got used to it just have to be more picky on what I have on here. Most people will see this though as a mistake and jump for either Droid or Iphone. Then it comes to materials and design. The pre feels great in the hand, doing stuff on it thought can be a challenge. First for all its worth the screen is gorgeous. That being said it's too D$%^&*((#G small. It's great to have a full bodied webkit. It can render very well. Now reading this that's a challenge. For anyone 25 or younger that's not a problem. Anyone older or who have vision issues will have trouble viewing what is on the Pre. Having a mobile page for this would have worked better. Not for everything but for what you use a smart phone for it should have been figured in. As an example papajohns has a mobile site that works flawlessly on the Iphone. Trying to get that site up on the Pre can be a exercise in futility. If it renders right that can help. Then trying to chose things on it doesn't work well at all. This comes back to Palm with the beta we have of an os. As far as what WebOS will becomes it's fantastic. What it is right now is just a wanna be. Palm was under such pressure that it had to release a product that wasn't ready.

    There are two glaring design flaws that should have been addressed but were left in. First the placement of the usb charge plug. Placing it on the side was a mistake that I think was intentional. We know that the Pre can do inductive charging with the touchstone package. Someone when this was being planned thought that they could get more money out of accessorizes if they combined the cover back plate for the Pre with the Touchstone. To encourage people to buy this they placed a flimsy (that's being generous) pop out cover on the side of the Pre. Knowing how bad that was they were hoping people would pony up for the package. Well a lil thing called the economy TANKED. NO ONE has the disposable cash to spring for it. That usb plug has fallen off many peoples Pre's here. To be honest its very annoying now in hand cause of this. This could have all be rectified if instead the usb plug was on the bottom and have the cover plate for the touchstone either included as an extra piece or as part of it from the start. You would have sold many more touchstones at 39.99 then the package at 69.99.

    I'm here now for the long haul but Palm needs to get it moving. Pre2 should be the device coming to VZ with a proper resign of the charger plug and touchstone cover. If they don't go above and beyond the next time Palm will not be around long enough to know it. And that is a sad sad thing to say.
  9. #29  
    I think all you people are worrying far too much about nothing. In 2 months sprint's exclusivity deal will end and AT&T/Verizon will get access to both it and the Pixi. This will probably be in conjunction with a new ad campain from both verizon and AT&T and the phone will be fine. The main issue the phone is dealing with in the US is sprint. I love sprint personally, it's much better than t-mobile and cheeper then everybody but it's got a very dirty name right now in the US. I ask anyone about Sprint and they tell me three things- Terrible service, ****ty customer support, and terrible billing systems. I haven't experienced any of those problems but the stigma is there.

    When pre jumps ship I am under the personal opinion that the amount of users will increase dramatically. That will also probably coincide with the App store coming out of beta and hopefully flash/Open GL support.

    Oh ye of little faith the company is no so in the toilet that it can't make it to january. Quit your bellyaching.
  10. #30  
    Its always the latest new thing that people talk about. If I were Palm, or Sprint, I would not spend too many more marketing dollars on Pre until the droid and BB news levels off. Then as another astute poster pointed out, palm will likely put the marketing dollars on the pixie launch. That is a delicate task since they do not want people to stop buying the pre. At least for me, it is not so clear how the pixie is positioned so not to impact the pre.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by dz1262 View Post
    When pre jumps ship I am under the personal opinion that the amount of users will increase dramatically.
    I don't quite follow your analysis. Too much emphasis is being put on the carrier. While I agree that Sprint has a well deserved bad name, so does AT&T. The only ***** in the iPhone armor is AT&T, yet, Apple has single-handedly turned that company's fortunes around.

    Since the iPhone launch, every other US carrier has been bleeding customers to a terrible carrier. Verizon has launched an all out attack on a single device to try and stop the bleeding. I do not believe that Verizon thinks the Pre can do that for them. I doubt they will poor much resources into the effort. AT&T certainly will not do anything to hurt the golden goose. The Pre will end up on the most maligned network in the country without any of the benefits. I just don't see how jumping ship changes the fortunes of the Pre. The Pre is supposed to help the carrier; not so much the other way around.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    [Apple] recently announced another world beating quarter that defied the recession.
    Yes, Apple has been doing quite well (thanks to their uncanny ability to charge so much more for products that aren't equally better than the competition; more power to 'em, but give me a break). Of course, any company that increased sales at all "defied the recession." In fact, one could be pretty amazed that in spite of the recession, Palm has managed to survive at all.

    I work in an industry where the same can't be said for many, many companies that were previously very solid.To my mind, Palm's performance is even more remarkable than Apple's in this respect.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I just don't see how jumping ship changes the fortunes of the Pre. The Pre is supposed to help the carrier; not so much the other way around.
    The term "jump ship" is used entirely incorrectly here. Palm won't stop selling the Pre on Sprint, rather they'll start selling the Pre on other carriers. Big difference.

    And it's not correct to say that the carrier isn't "supposed to" help the device. Simply by expanding the market, Palm should see a significant increase in sales. Without expanding the market, such increases are likely impossible.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Yes, Apple has been doing quite well (thanks to their uncanny ability to charge so much more for products that aren't equally better than the competition;
    This is an unworthy dismissal of the competition. The iPhone is not more expensive than other smartphones. In fact, the iPhone set the price expectation of smartphones. Other companies now have to try to beat $199.

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Of course, any company that increased sales at all "defied the recession." In fact, one could be pretty amazed that in spite of the recession, Palm has managed to survive at all.
    That's just spin. Apple has more than held serve or manage small gains. Apple is breaking records and defining the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    To my mind, Palm's performance is even more remarkable than Apple's in this respect.
    You have an interesting mind. In no objective measure has Palm performed as well, let alone, better than Apple. This is the kind of blind optimism, spin, and marketing double speak that keeps real progress from being made. Any body rooting for Palm had better hope that they are not drinking this brand of Koolaid.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is the kind of blind optimism, spin, and marketing double speak that keeps real progress from being made.
    Really? My opinion keeps real progress from being made? That's good to know. Certainly, because you say so, I'll just start keeping it to myself.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Really? My opinion keeps real progress from being made? That's good to know. Certainly, because you say so, I'll just start keeping it to myself.
    You know what I mean... I hope.
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    To my mind, Palm's performance is even more remarkable than Apple's in this respect.
    I don't always agree with you, but respect your opinion. However, this kind of statement has me seriously questioning your credibility. If you think Palm wouldn't kill for Apple's level of success, or that Apple would rather be in Palm's shoes, you're nuts. Palm is hanging on by a thread, due in large part to their own incompetence over the last few years. They have yet to earn their way back into a position of any importance in the industry.
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    I don't always agree with you, but respect your opinion. However, this kind of statement has me seriously questioning your credibility. If you think Palm wouldn't kill for Apple's level of success, or that Apple would rather be in Palm's shoes, you're nuts. Palm is hanging on by a thread, due in large part to their own incompetence over the last few years. They have yet to earn their way back into a position of any importance in the industry.
    "hanging by a thread" and "having over $500 million on hand and being on track to becoming cash-flow positive in 2HFY10 while opening new Tier-1 carriers" seem to be at odds.
  19. #39  
    @ dandbj13...just curios...what device are you using?
  20. #40  
    I don't think the Pre is losing momentum. I think the momentum it created last January was possibly misplaced. This was done by Palm investors like Roger McNamee who maybe blew realistic expectations out of the water by assertion that iphone users will come to the Pre in droves. You mix that with the technology blogoshpere which jumps from one hot product to another. The market is getting overrun with new devices that all have qualities to them are get touted as the next big deal when in reality they are just another version of the same thing. The Pre itself is really about WebOS. Palm wanted a beautiful looking device to introduce their new operating system. Since June, the Pre has been selling in multiple countries and with reportedly great success(see Europe). Next week WebOS will officially be a on two devices. In a month or so the app catalog goes out of beta. Next year the Pre will be carried by the top 3 major US networks. I think Palm wanted buzz and got that but I think they have a long term plan tech geeks like us find frustrating. They are reinventing their company brand and testing the loyalty of its base as they try to remain competitive in a shifting market place. That is not accomplished overnight or even in six months. I honestly think the Pre's job was to reestablish their name in the market which I think it has done in a remarkable way. The next step I assume is to spend the year developing WebOS 2.0 for release sometime next year. They are obviously hiring impressive people to help fully realize the potential of WebOS but it will take time. They needed to get the Pre out to buy this time and I think Palm would consider it a success for them. I think the focus on momentum is probably misguided and maybe is just a reflection of all the hype Android is getting right now. None of those android phones are going to change the marketplace like the iphone did. A new android phone could come out every month and get some pressbut the next premiere WebOS device like the Pre(not the Pixi) will generate as much press as 5 or 6 android devices. Thats pretty impressive.
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