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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Excellent point, but here are some things to consider along with that:
    • The $1-$2 are going to be "useless" "play with" apps. Folks that complain that they're junk have about as much credibility as those that complain that $.99 hamburgers from McDonalds are junk.
    • The catalog is currently "thin on anything breathtaking" because it's new. There are some very decent quality applications, although I wouldn't call them "breath taking".
    Your right, but after the per person has bought his job or interest specific app or apps,then all you have need for is $1-2 junk apps. Not caling all low priced apps junk btw,because there are some really good ones. My point being, noone is going to have a reason to keep purchasing high priced apps. So the low priced apps are what is going to sell the most.
    Also, I got mine on launch day, and have never complained about lack of apps,because it is a new os. And really I am surprised at the amount of good apps available, but as was mentioned,we are 5 months in. I came from palm os/and winmo's. They both have alot of useful apps. Even down to text interception by contact. As for us, I mean,how many restaraunt finders does one phone need?
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Riebs View Post
    I wish people would stop saying the catalog is full of useless apps without first qualifying it with something like "For me..."

    As an example, I don't have a Twitter account, but I wouldn't even think of calling Twee or Tweed a useless app. They're just not apps I need.

    On the other hand, I couldn't imagine life without the app GolfPinFinder. This is a fantastic app if your a golfer. Well worth the $9.99, especially if you have priced a stand-alone golf GPS unit lately. If you don't golf I understand why you wouldn't buy it, but it's not fair to call it useless.

    I think the apps will come in time. Maybe because I'm probably older than most people on this forum I have more patience. The Pre is a great phone and WebOS is a great platform. I believe in the long run Palm will succeed.

    Ok. "For me, all of the apps are pure crap."
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Your right, but after the per person has bought his job or interest specific app or apps,then all you have need for is $1-2 junk apps. Not caling all low priced apps junk btw,because there are some really good ones. My point being, noone is going to have a reason to keep purchasing high priced apps. So the low priced apps are what is going to sell the most.
    Also, I got mine on launch day, and have never complained about lack of apps,because it is a new os. And really I am surprised at the amount of good apps available, but as was mentioned,we are 5 months in. I came from palm os/and winmo's. They both have alot of useful apps. Even down to text interception by contact. As for us, I mean,how many restaraunt finders does one phone need?
    I guess I just look at the market differently (and really, don't we all see things from our perspective).

    The single most expensive (one time purchase) app I ever bought for my Palm device was TEAK. A time and billing program (I do a lot of computer consulting). It cost me about over $100 for the initial purchase (between the $30 PalmOS app, and the $80 desktop app) + update prices. I paid for it after using a trial version for a very short period. Why? Because it paid for itself many times over. It was a useful tool for me.

    The company apparently sold enough of them that kept updating it for over a decade. So, you might ask how is that relevant?

    The market most certainly did not exist for that application 5 months after the Palm Pilot was introduced. It probably didn't exist strongly when this program was first released (I think about a year and a half after Palm introduced the Pilot). Yet the program sold literally thousands of copies, and was updated continually for years.

    I see so much more potential for the Pre in app development like this. Palm implemented so many standardized functionality at implementation that would affect apps like this - database (SQL Lite), user interface, JAVA JVM (though it's not supported in the SDK yet, it's there), full time internet connectivity, etc etc.

    No, these things aren't fully utilized yet, but they will be. That'll be done by developers that see the potential, and exploit it. That's what happened with the Pilot, and I have no doubt we'll see much of the same with the Pre.

    So, let the folks that want 100,000 $1 games that they can show off to their buddies moan and groan about how "lame" the Pre is. It doesn't bother me a bit. i have little doubt about what's to come, and I far prefer real applications for the device over nonsensical throw-away apps.

    Though I'll spend a few bucks on those as well.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I guess I just look at the market differently (and really, don't we all see things from our perspective).

    The single most expensive (one time purchase) app I ever bought for my Palm device was TEAK. A time and billing program (I do a lot of computer consulting). It cost me about over $100 for the initial purchase (between the $30 PalmOS app, and the $80 desktop app) + update prices. I paid for it after using a trial version for a very short period. Why? Because it paid for itself many times over. It was a useful tool for me.

    The company apparently sold enough of them that kept updating it for over a decade. So, you might ask how is that relevant?

    The market most certainly did not exist for that application 5 months after the Palm Pilot was introduced. It probably didn't exist strongly when this program was first released (I think about a year and a half after Palm introduced the Pilot). Yet the program sold literally thousands of copies, and was updated continually for years.

    I see so much more potential for the Pre in app development like this. Palm implemented so many standardized functionality at implementation that would affect apps like this - database (SQL Lite), user interface, JAVA JVM (though it's not supported in the SDK yet, it's there), full time internet connectivity, etc etc.

    No, these things aren't fully utilized yet, but they will be. That'll be done by developers that see the potential, and exploit it. That's what happened with the Pilot, and I have no doubt we'll see much of the same with the Pre.

    So, let the folks that want 100,000 $1 games that they can show off to their buddies moan and groan about how "lame" the Pre is. It doesn't bother me a bit. i have little doubt about what's to come, and I far prefer real applications for the device over nonsensical throw-away apps.

    Though I'll spend a few bucks on those as well.
    How can you make fun of the $1 apps or the like on the iPhone when that's the bulk of what Pre has?? The iPhone has multiple times more apps that costs $10+ than all the apps in the WebOS catalog today.

    You spend so much time talking about Palm's app catalog's potential (like you did in September) even though none of that is in display today. But yet you think it's logical to make fun of what Apple has today on the unproven (and possibly naive) assumption that that Palm's catalog will be better in the 'future.'

    So I'll ask this:

    (a) what specific metric would you use to determine if the Palm catalog is successful at the end of this year (or any time period you choose). It seems you have a success/failure metric for Apple's app store and so I think it makes sense that you have one for the Pre.


    (b) What specifically is it that you think the Palm catalog will have in the future that the Apple catalog does not have today or can't have in the future.

    I'll be stunned if I get a straight forward answer from you.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Obviously, not "everyone" is spending $100. Many of those users are spending $0.
    However, go with your number, subtract the 30% Apple takes off the top. Divide the remaining by the 100,000 apps that are up there. That brings it down to (I think) about 35k per app. They have to pay a programmer out of that, often multiple programmers. Sorry, I don't think the platform supports 100,000 serious programs out there selling to folks that think $100 is a LOT of money.

    As has been stated, there are tons of articles out there about developers that are beginning to sour on the $.99 apps "business model".
    When I called you Mr. Mathematician in an earlier post, that was also my indirect way of saying that your math skills are kind of off. To determine the revenue per developer, you'd need to substract the number of free apps from the 100k number you used above. Otherwise you are significantly undercounting how much they make; which I guess was your objective anyway.
  6. #66  
    I think it's too early to say it's a failure, but do agree that most of the apps aren't very compelling. I purchased Air Hockey; movement stutters and hangs up at times...not a good thing for an air hockey game.

    Then you look at apps in the Homebrew catalog that look like they have awesome potential, but seem to be limited by lack of development tools. Topple Ball, for example; awesome little game in desperate need of proper sounds, and more fluid graphics (seems to be a recurring flaw with the Pre). And then there's apps like Music Player (Remix) that are easily must-have apps, but aren't even in the app catalog, and likely won't be. That app alone would be a huge hit in the catalog, and Dan's promising another "killer" app; I trust he'll deliver, but will it be able to go to the catalog?

    As for Pre users not wanting to fork over money...I don't think that's true at all. I've been donating in the Homebrew section for months now, as I know others have.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    How can you make fun of the $1 apps or the like on the iPhone when that's the bulk of what Pre has?? The iPhone has multiple times more apps that costs $10+ than all the apps in the WebOS catalog today.
    Excuse me, where did I say anything about the iPhone?

    I seldom talk about the iPhone. Don't have one, never really wanted one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    You spend so much time talking about Palm's app catalog's potential (like you did in September) even though none of that is in display today. But yet you think it's logical to make fun of what Apple has today on the unproven (and possibly naive) assumption that that Palm's catalog will be better in the 'future.'
    Excuse me, three points:
    • Yes, I talked about the potential in September. I think we've about doubled the number of apps. Not where I hoped it would be, but it's getting better.
    • See the comment above. Nothing was mentioned in my post about the iPhone. Everything I talked about was the Pre, and the Treo/Pilot, all Palm Devices.
    • Lighten up Francis


    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    So I'll ask this:

    (a) what specific metric would you use to determine if the Palm catalog is successful at the end of this year (or any time period you choose). It seems you have a success/failure metric for Apple's app store and so I think it makes sense that you have one for the Pre.


    (b) What specifically is it that you think the Palm catalog will have in the future that the Apple catalog does not have today or can't have in the future.

    I'll be stunned if I get a straight forward answer from you.
    Of course you won't. I have no reason to compare it to the iPhone. I don't own one.
    The purpose of Palm's App Catalog is to support the Palm WebOS. If it's doing that, it's successful.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    When I called you Mr. Mathematician in an earlier post, that was also my indirect way of saying that your math skills are kind of off. To determine the revenue per developer, you'd need to substract the number of free apps from the 100k number you used above. Otherwise you are significantly undercounting how much they make; which I guess was your objective anyway.
    The entire argument is straw. Some developers make virtually nothing. Others make a lot. That was my point.

    And please, dispense with the personal attacks. Are you able to discuss anything rationally?
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    #69  
    i'd like to see Palm bring the app cat out of beta, whatever change that will bring. its hardly a failure. the apps are simple but given time this will change. remember there was a time when iphone/android had 320 apps too. after pixi, i'd like to see Palm really concentrate on developing webos so the apps and catalog can be improved.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The entire argument is straw. Some developers make virtually nothing. Others make a lot. That was my point.

    And please, dispense with the personal attacks. Are you able to discuss anything rationally?
    I'm not attacking you. just your logic. move on.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The purpose of Palm's App Catalog is to support the Palm WebOS. If it's doing that, it's successful.
    Does it support webOS, and if so in what way?

    Even if it supported webOS, that's a roundabout way of supporting it. Shouldn't Palm just work on the OS directly?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    I'm not attacking you. just your logic. move on.
    Ahhhh, silly me, somehow I thlught the "Mr. Mathematician" was a prime example of your many personal attcks.

    As for "moving on", nah I think I'll keep pointing out the silliness...
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Does it support webOS, and if so in what way?

    Even if it supported webOS, that's a roundabout way of supporting it. Shouldn't Palm just work on the OS directly?
    No, at least I don't think so (and apparently Palm doesn't either). The Apps Catalog helps generate demand for the Pre and Pisii. They are the two devices that currently run WebOS.

    Had Palm released the Pre (and WebOS) with no Apps Catalog, you can be sure there would have been howls about it.

    But then, I suspect you know that.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by PookiePrancer View Post
    And then there's apps like Music Player (Remix) that are easily must-have apps, but aren't even in the app catalog, and likely won't be. That app alone would be a huge hit in the catalog, and Dan's promising another "killer" app; I trust he'll deliver, but will it be able to go to the catalog?
    Never say never! I'm currently in contact with Chuq from Palm and he's trying to get me a more specific timeline as to when (or whether) the undocumented APIs I'm using will be made public. He said he'd have the info for me by next week. So we'll see what happens.

    I am working on another app that I hope people will consider a killer, must-have app. And yes, it will be coming to the app catalog. It doesn't run under the "com.palm" app namespace and will use no undocumented APIs. I've been making good progress on it and everyone I tell about it thinks it's a great idea.

    I'm sure there are many really cool projects being worked on now. The app catalog is in its infancy. I think the percentage of really good apps in the catalog is pretty small right now...but I think that will change over time as Palm keeps improving their SDK and the potential customer base starts increasing.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    ...
    I'm sure there are many really cool projects being worked on now. The app catalog is in its infancy. I think the percentage of really good apps in the catalog is pretty small right now...but I think that will change over time as Palm keeps improving their SDK and the potential customer base starts increasing.
    Oh what do you know about it, you're just a developer. There are experts on here! They know about app development.

    Just ask 'em!
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    No, at least I don't think so (and apparently Palm doesn't either). The Apps Catalog helps generate demand for the Pre and Pisii. They are the two devices that currently run WebOS.

    Had Palm released the Pre (and WebOS) with no Apps Catalog, you can be sure there would have been howls about it.

    But then, I suspect you know that.
    The results of the current strategy speak for themselves.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    The results of the current strategy speak for themselves.
    Well put, and I agree completely! Instead of a company with a dead OS and ancient hardware line and a company headed for bankrupcy, Palm has an exciting new line that is selling, a new OS gaining in popularity, and a company that is gaett more solid footing financially.

    Results!
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Never say never! I'm currently in contact with Chuq from Palm and he's trying to get me a more specific timeline as to when (or whether) the undocumented APIs I'm using will be made public. He said he'd have the info for me by next week. So we'll see what happens.

    I am working on another app that I hope people will consider a killer, must-have app. And yes, it will be coming to the app catalog. It doesn't run under the "com.palm" app namespace and will use no undocumented APIs. I've been making good progress on it and everyone I tell about it thinks it's a great idea.
    Awesome news! Well, if it ends up that the Remix will never make it into the official store, I'll donate more to you anyway; only reason I haven't given more is that there's still a chance it will, and I don't want to end up spending 2 or 3 times more than what something's going to end up costing anyway Having seen what you've done with the Music Player, I KNOW your next app will be awesome.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Oh what do you know about it, you're just a developer. There are experts on here! They know about app development.

    Just ask 'em!
    I'm not sure what you mean by this, but it has an insulting tone to it. Or am I misunderstanding you? If so, I'm sorry...please elaborate on what you meant.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Well put, and I agree completely! Instead of a company with a dead OS and ancient hardware line and a company headed for bankrupcy, Palm has an exciting new line that is selling, a new OS gaining in popularity, and a company that is gaett more solid footing financially.

    Results!
    You're becoming desperate.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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