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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, I didn't define it that way, you did so for me. As a matter of fact, I specifically stated that my definitions were not yours.

    I'm not the one asking the question, I'm trying to answer it. No one can, until the original poster says what constitutes "failure".
    splicing words as usual hparsons. i give you a chance to clear the air and state your clear opinion and you defer. Of course you want the OP to come up with a definition - that allows you avoid doing so yourself and then you can try to slice and dice the OP's words. It must give you a thrill to avoid stating clear facts. And a thrill to try to find 'gaps' in what people are trying to say.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Obviously, not "everyone" is spending $100. Many of those users are spending $0.
    However, go with your number, subtract the 30% Apple takes off the top. Divide the remaining by the 100,000 apps that are up there. That brings it down to (I think) about 35k per app. They have to pay a programmer out of that, often multiple programmers. Sorry, I don't think the platform supports 100,000 serious programs out there selling to folks that think $100 is a LOT of money.

    As has been stated, there are tons of articles out there about developers that are beginning to sour on the $.99 apps "business model".
    And so what's the avg rake for WebOS developers, Mr. Mathematician? Amazing logic.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    splicing words as usual hparsons. i give you a chance to clear the air and state your clear opinion and you defer. Of course you want the OP to come up with a definition - that allows you avoid doing so yourself and then you can try to slice and dice the OP's words. It must give you a thrill to avoid stating clear facts. And a thrill to try to find 'gaps' in what people are trying to say.
    Soory bub, I spliced nothing. I do wonder why you persist in the personal attack. The posed a scenario implying the apps catalog was a "failure". It probably is, for him. Can't say for everyone, since he really didn't specify what constitues failure.

    And what does asking my opinion about what constutes "failure" have to do with stating "clear facts"? Opinions aren't fact, in spite of what a few folks on here seem to think.

    And "thrill"... Hardly. You're about as "thrilling" as shooting fish in a barrell...
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    And so what's the avg rake for WebOS developers, Mr. Mathematician? Amazing logic.
    I suspect pretty low at this point. I'm glad that there are some that are betting they'll make money.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by moserjj View Post
    the failure is all the Pre users who won't fork over money for apps!
    there's almost nothing worth paying for. even most of the free apps are not worth downloading. The catalogue is full of apps that most people are not interested in.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    And so what's the avg rake for WebOS developers, Mr. Mathematician? Amazing logic.
    Two points. First, there's far less competition in the App Catalog, and so the initial WebOS developers stand to do pretty well, at least initially. The same was true for Apple's App Store in its infancy.

    Second, there are problems with the App Store model regardless of what happens with WebOS. Unfortunately, Apple established a precedent and now it's difficult for anyone to compete with a different model, at least at this point. Personally, I think Apple's model is unsustainable, and that Palm is brilliant for hedging its bets by supporting the efforts of developers in selling/giving away apps outside the App Catalog. I'm guessing that Palm doesn't care where apps come from or how they're sold/distributed, as long as the utility of WebOS continues to be enhanced. Apple apparently doesn't agree with regard to the iPhone (and, perhaps they don't need to).

    In the long run, I think we'll see things move back toward deep, well-developed and supported apps that are significant more expensive than the Apple model of cheap, throwaway apps. At least, I sure hope so, because I just can't see how serious developers can sustain real businesses trying to compete with 100,000 other apps at such incredibly low prices (and, hence, margins).
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    ...
    In the long run, I think we'll see things move back toward deep, well-developed and supported apps that are significant more expensive than the Apple model of cheap, throwaway apps. At least, I sure hope so, because I just can't see how serious developers can sustain real businesses trying to compete with 100,000 other apps at such incredibly low prices (and, hence, margins).
    It's funny you say that. My primary job doesn't do cloud computing, so I have no way to directly synch my Pre to my "work" email address. Plus, it's on GroupWise. That means that I'm looking long and hard at the features of The Missing Sync (which I really like, but it doesn't support GroupWise), Companion Link (which does), and PocketMirror (right now in 3rd place, but they've traditionally done their systems well). I'll buy one before the end of the year. The kicker, They sell for $30, $40, and $20 respectively.

    I doubt I'm alone. I suspect there are still plenty of Palm owners willing to pay more than a buck for programs that really do what they need.
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by jakerome View Post
    What are some numbers, for say Twee and Tweed?
    probably two of the better selling Apps.

    Twee has 1047 paid apps for 3 bucks a pop.

    Tweed has 4012 paid apps at 2 bucks a pop.

    Along with World Whirl, these are the top grossing Apps i think.

    Not saying much when Palm is making like 2500 bucks after two months on its top selling apps.

    I know this is the infancy but its really taking a slow baby like growth chart
  9. #49  
    The 100.00$ thing. I think it is alot of money when you are simply talking phone apps. Lets get back to a few months ago,when many of us complained about the pre's shortcomings, and was constantly reminded that in hte end it is only a phone, and as long as you can make calls on it, then all is good. That being said, it is a phone. Very few apps will I or many people drop more than a few bucks on,4.99 is close to topped out for me. Now I did drop coin for kinoma on my palm and winmo phones,but that 20.00 exception is just that, an exception. Not many apps are going to offer that drastic of a change to my phone. I would drop 15-20 bucks for preware or webqi, but again, those offer alot for your money. Quick contacts,Word whirl they are worth what they are asking for them. Bible trivia,flash cards,not so much. I mean noone can justify anyone spending alot on a ton of apps, because noone needs a ton of apps on they're phone. So say a big 20.00$ and a couple handfuls of 3-4-5$ apps,and yeah 100.00 worht of apps is quite a bit for a phone.I'm sorry, I spent alot of time just learning to root and change things in my phone, so I realize that alot of hard work goes into programming, but in the end, it's just a phone not a laptop...
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Second, there are problems with the App Store model regardless of what happens with WebOS. Unfortunately, Apple established a precedent and now it's difficult for anyone to compete with a different model, at least at this point. Personally, I think Apple's model is unsustainable, and that Palm is brilliant for hedging its bets by supporting the efforts of developers in selling/giving away apps outside the App Catalog. I'm guessing that Palm doesn't care where apps come from or how they're sold/distributed, as long as the utility of WebOS continues to be enhanced. Apple apparently doesn't agree with regard to the iPhone (and, perhaps they don't need to).
    One point. Palm doesn't allow you to sell apps outside of the App Catalog. You can only give them away outside of it.
    Your Pre wants Word Whirl from the App Catalog.

    It told me.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The iPhone App Store is a runaway success any way you look at it except, possibly, from the standpoint of established software houses. The end users obviously love it. Apple loves it. Developers love it enough to rocket it into a hugely dominant platform in 2 years.

    I'm sure Electronic Arts isn't thrilled that they can only charge 6.99 - 9.99 for Madden 2010 instead of what we used to pay on other platforms. They seem to be getting over it, though. That $1.99 T-Pain voice thing apparently sells 10,000 copies per day so they are probably somewhat happy.

    It's an incredibly competitive marketplace that does not favor established software developers.
    Another thing,imo, most of the apps that are going to be worth 15-25$ to someone,are goin to be niche apps. Like motion classic,medical apps,the dictionaries in the store now and so on. So you may have some really good big apps coming out, worth the money, but not to everyone. At that point, yes, the T-Pain voice thing is goin to outsell the what seems as useful apps, because most people dont need the really useful apps. And most people, like me, dont mind wasting .99-1.99$ on something useless when I am sitting somewhere bored. People will buy the 1,2,3 apps they feel they need, but after that,apps are for playing with. Plus the catalog is really thin on anything breathtaking..
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The iPhone App Store is a runaway success any way you look at it except, possibly, from the standpoint of established software houses. The end users obviously love it. Apple loves it. Developers love it enough to rocket it into a hugely dominant platform in 2 years.

    I'm sure Electronic Arts isn't thrilled that they can only charge 6.99 - 9.99 for Madden 2010 instead of what we used to pay on other platforms. They seem to be getting over it, though. That $1.99 T-Pain voice thing apparently sells 10,000 copies per day so they are probably somewhat happy.

    It's an incredibly competitive marketplace that does not favor established software developers.
    Then again, as an iphone user, that isn't exactly Madden 2010 as played on a PS3. It's a POS mobile app that's lucky to be getting that 9.99. EA should be more than thrilled.
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    #53  
    I wish people would stop saying the catalog is full of useless apps without first qualifying it with something like "For me..."

    As an example, I don't have a Twitter account, but I wouldn't even think of calling Twee or Tweed a useless app. They're just not apps I need.

    On the other hand, I couldn't imagine life without the app GolfPinFinder. This is a fantastic app if your a golfer. Well worth the $9.99, especially if you have priced a stand-alone golf GPS unit lately. If you don't golf I understand why you wouldn't buy it, but it's not fair to call it useless.

    I think the apps will come in time. Maybe because I'm probably older than most people on this forum I have more patience. The Pre is a great phone and WebOS is a great platform. I believe in the long run Palm will succeed.

    My Evolution
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  14. #54  
    How many apps did Apple sell the first year the iPhone was out? Hmm...

    Yes, that was before, and now everyone expects a phone to have a store immediately, with tools immediately, and all features, immediately.

    Palm designed the WebOS so that it will be fairly easy to make applications. At least, simple ones. And since the OS is fairly protected, testing and integration will be simpler than on an iPhone or Android device. Remember how unstable Palms got with all the hacks people made?

    As far as pricing goes, maybe we'll probably see more subscription-based server-centric apps, with cheap or free clients?
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
  15. #55  
    sigh... I get awfully yawnful when iphone users banter about apps 100,000 worthwhile apps?..so much yawnly doubt it, buckets of trash and few good solid ones...yes more likely. On O2 (UK) as of today the app catalogue states 165 and 99% of those are free the other 1% is try before buy.

    Failure (apparently) is not an option... coming from a Windoze6 HTC phone this phone (Pre) flys along and has a stack of merits over my older phone, the apps being free and for a lot of them actually worthwhile taking the time to download is just a bonus imo.

    Favourites atm is 'AccuRadio' and 'Yelp!' - cracking value at 0, although I would pay for em.

    Now just waiting for all of those Pre users 'wish lists' to be answered in time for Xmas...now that would be peachy.

    Red.
    Last edited by red5hark; 11/05/2009 at 11:30 AM.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    ...
    because most people dont need the really useful apps. And most people, like me, dont mind wasting .99-1.99$ on something useless when I am sitting somewhere bored. People will buy the 1,2,3 apps they feel they need, but after that,apps are for playing with. Plus the catalog is really thin on anything breathtaking..
    Excellent point, but here are some things to consider along with that:
    • The $1-$2 are going to be "useless" "play with" apps. Folks that complain that they're junk have about as much credibility as those that complain that $.99 hamburgers from McDonalds are junk.
    • The catalog is currently "thin on anything breathtaking" because it's new. There are some very decent quality applications, although I wouldn't call them "breath taking".
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Excellent point, but here are some things to consider along with that:
    • The $1-$2 are going to be "useless" "play with" apps. Folks that complain that they're junk have about as much credibility as those that complain that $.99 hamburgers from McDonalds are junk.
    • The catalog is currently "thin on anything breathtaking" because it's new. There are some very decent quality applications, although I wouldn't call them "breath taking".
    Agreed. And that's precisely what Apple's done: they've created a market for crap software. I simply can't imagine so many horrible $.99 apps getting any kind of sales without the aggregation provided by the App Store.

    I really don't know if this phenomenon is crowding out good software, or making it very difficult for the small developer who's not lucky enough to get on the front page, or whatever. I'm not sure anyone knows yet. I do find it difficult to see how anyone can get their app noticed in a sea of 100,000 crap apps (minus the 1000 or so great apps), unless it's just blind luck--kind of like winning the lottery.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  18. #58  
    It's been 5 months...***
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by short_round View Post
    It's been 5 months...***
    Yes, but don't you know? Palm is supposed to have warped time and space and caught up with (nay, surpassed!) competitors who've been on the market for much longer. They have that flux capacitor sitting in their R&D labs, and they're just not using it! The bastages!
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by biggamer3 View Post
    calm down buddy, just because not every post here is a "Pre is awesome" post, doesnt mean you have to get your panties in a bunch.

    I love the pre and i was asking if others felt it was a failure.

    My opinion was that it is so far a major failure, but thats just my opinion, i wanted to see what others felt.

    this is a FORUM afterall to discuss these types of things
    Thanks for the stunningly original new thread.
    From those mythical lands beyond the great USA...

    It is a convergence device not mankind's disc/filmography.
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