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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    The GPU drivers are already developed, being that webOS is able to output any graphics at all. What it sounds like here is the UI sluggishness is from all the animations not using CSS transforms, so there is no direct access to the GPU when performing these animations.
    Well, it doesn't solve the 3D game aspects, because you DO need a layer between javascript and the GPU. Let's hope WebGL fixes that problem. But yeah, CSS transforms should fix the UI sluggishness. The real question though is, why didn't they do this from the start?
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  2. gage006's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    The GPU drivers are already developed, being that webOS is able to output any graphics at all.
    Uh no. The CPU is doing the graphics. Thus the issue.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    If I'm not mistaken (and boy, I could be with this topic), CSS transforms are a function already built into WebKit (the "nightly builds," whatever the heck those are; Google is my friend). So, all Palm has to do is turn them on. Someone more knowledgeable than me can maybe comment on how the GPU is supported here--e.g., is it just baked into the system by virtual of the entire system (UI) being built with WebKit?
    The more likely case was that they simply coded all of their animations through javascript, and not through CSS transforms. Don't know why they went this route from the beginning, but it looks like they're fixing their "mistake."
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by gage006 View Post
    Uh no. The CPU is doing the graphics. Thus the issue.
    What he is saying is that generic drivers ARE in place for the GPU, since it had to push pixels to the screen. The problem is, the CPU is doing the math to figure out where to position those pixels on the screen, and not the GPU. The GPU does have drivers, but javascript can't communicate to those drivers. With WebGL it could, but we don't have that in WebOS yet. By default, CSS transforms are hardware accelerated, and they don't use a lick of javascript.
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  5. Kedar's Avatar
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    #25  
    That sounds promising...
    I hope we don't get disappointed.

    I seriously thought about how we have the same processor as the Iphone 3Gs but we're loads slower...
    I thought that WebOS must have been simply large and hard to make quicker.
  6. Kedar's Avatar
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    #26  
    That sounds promising...
    I hope we don't get disappointed.

    I seriously thought about how we have the same processor as the Iphone 3Gs but we're loads slower...
    I thought that WebOS must have been simply large and hard to make quicker.
  7. s219's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    What he is saying is that generic drivers ARE in place for the GPU, since it had to push pixels to the screen. The problem is, the CPU is doing the math to figure out where to position those pixels on the screen, and not the GPU. The GPU does have drivers, but javascript can't communicate to those drivers. With WebGL it could, but we don't have that in WebOS yet. By default, CSS transforms are hardware accelerated, and they don't use a lick of javascript.
    Don't confuse graphics acceleration with video interface (lighting up pixels), since they are two very different things. Obviously they have the video interface working since the CPU can paint pixels, but that does not equal a working or "driven" (drivered? ) GPU. Enabling the GPU means you have to provide a path in the OS to feed it OpenGL ES commands, since that's the language the GPU speaks. The driver will be part of the low-level software needed to pass those commands to the GPU at a machine-code level. It's completely unrelated to just having active video features.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    Don't confuse graphics acceleration with video interface (lighting up pixels), since they are two very different things. Obviously they have the video interface working since the CPU can paint pixels, but that does not equal a working or "driven" (drivered? ) GPU. Enabling the GPU means you have to provide a path in the OS to feed it OpenGL ES commands, since that's the language the GPU speaks. The driver will be part of the low-level software needed to pass those commands to the GPU at a machine-code level. It's completely unrelated to just having active video features.
    That is exactly what I said
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    #29  
    I hope this happens in the next month and I hope it fixes the calender/contacts lag issues. This was the issue that made me choose the Hero over the Pre. I've still got 25 days to exchange it, let's get cracking Palm!
  10. #30  
    So, would it be correct to say that the CSS transforms were not in place because the GPU driver was not available to support the acceleration? Or do you suppose the driver was there and it was only the transforms that weren't present?
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    So, would it be correct to say that the CSS transforms were not in place because the GPU driver was not available to support the acceleration? Or do you suppose the driver was there and it was only the transforms that weren't present?
    As far as I know, webOS always had CSS animation support. I could write a quick app on 1.2.1 to test that theory. The SDK, in theory, already supports CSS transformations.
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  12. feivel's Avatar
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    #32  
    it DOES have CSS transform support. Check out the example page from the Front Page link. Click a box and it flies away!

    It's choppy though, so I'm guessing it's still CPU-based.

    So when, oh when, might they make CSS-transforms GPU-based? I want this thing to act like a real phone, and respond when I do something.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSilver View Post
    This can't be good. Reason I say this is because now Palm is not going to meet the expectation of the haters.

    This is how the story goes...
    1) Public demands a statement from company X on feature X, company doesn't respond to public, is hated.
    2) Public demands a statement, company provides a vague statement, public misinterprets statement and assumes the product will print money, is hated when it doesn't.

    My point is that there are going to many that are disappointed no matter how fast the update makes the Pre. The truth is that the Pre is not going to be as fast as the single-tasking Iphone, but the users will assume it will be.

    My words are going to reach a small audience but I hope we'll understand that, speed-wise, its being compared to the Iphone that doesn't multitask and had about a 2 year jump start on optimization.

    I know this is a somewhat bad comparison, but look at game systems. The hardware doesn't change but the graphics are drastically different at the beginning and end of its life cycle. WebOS is in its infancy...
    you dont even know how fast it will be and ur hating already geez give em a break their doing everything they can .
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Everyone always says the next update will make it faster and the ppl who get it "accidentally" always say, "whoa- it's so much faster now" and then it just remains the same or gets slower.... so i'll believe it when I see it. < < Run-on sentence. Sorry to all the English teachers out there!
    Uhuh, wrong - not "everyone". A lot of speculators may have said that (but not even all of those), but this time it's Palm saying something.

    I know, I know, I'm sure there's still something in there (for some folks) to hate the company over, but let's at least be honest about what's happened in the past.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    As far as I know, webOS always had CSS animation support. I could write a quick app on 1.2.1 to test that theory. The SDK, in theory, already supports CSS transformations.
    Am I remembering wrong, or did DeliciousMorsel use CSS animation for Twee?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Everyone always says the next update will make it faster and the ppl who get it "accidentally" always say, "whoa- it's so much faster now" and then it just remains the same or gets slower.... so i'll believe it when I see it. < < Run-on sentence. Sorry to all the English teachers out there!
    dude if you cant wait for the updates and other kool stuff just go get that other phone you want so bad and forget about the pre already lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    That is exactly what I said
    i just wish yall spoke english and not klingon ,geez!!
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    you dont even know how fast it will be and ur hating already geez give em a break their doing everything they can .
    Actually, I think if you read a little closer, he was hating on the haters...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, I think if you read a little closer, he was hating on the haters...
    say what?? i was talking to that dbd guy hating on the pre's update already and its not even released yet lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    you dont even know how fast it will be and ur hating already geez give em a break their doing everything they can .
    I guess my thoughts didn't reach my fingers properly because I'm guessing the other post about hating on the first page was direct towards me too.

    I am financially invested in Palm and I have zero intent to dog on them. My post was actually directed at those that do hate on Palm every time they come out with something (the "never satisfied" crowd).

    My point was that when Palm states they are going to make the Pre faster, I'm predicting the forum members to end up having the assumption that the thing will perform as if it has a miniature Pentium Quad-core processor magically implanted into it over the airwaves. People start sharing their speculations and end up believing their speculations will come true.

    There's nothing wrong with rumors and speculation. We just all need to understand that rumors are rumors. If Palm never said they're going to include a feature in version X, don't hate Palm because they don't release it.

    My last statement about the game system comparison was to say that the Pre and WebOS are brand new and will only get better over time.

    Hope my thoughts came out correct in this post.
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