Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 161
  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    There was some attempt previously to say that Palm can only be measured by the return on investment which is beside the point of the thread. Ultimately we are trying to see if Palm's strategy succeeded with consumers.

    I'm saying it didn't. The app catalog can hardly be called a draw to the device, the SDK has ways to go. I say that Palm has squandered resources on a futile pursuit while making itself look bad.
    There are undoubtedly some consumers that were/are dissatisfied with the Pre - some even seem evangelistically dissatisfied; however, every poll I've seen anywhere shows that overwhelmingly, Pre owners are either satisfied, or very satisifed with their devices.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Okay, lets ask further: why hasn't the Pre been a success so far? Is it a lack of quality or of apps?
    Good question...I absolutely love my Pre, but then my wife and I are the only two people we know who own Pres. We love our devices and we had to replace one unit that had a faulty screen, but other then that...think our devices rock are looking forward to what Palm and Developers will offer sooner or later.

    Every once in a while I get asked, "is that a Pre" (kids reference it all the time and some times adults), but still haven't seen anyone else with a unit. This will probably change when he Pixi at a lower price point gets released, but we'll have to wait and see. We purchased our original units on there release in June and we had lines at both Best Buy and Sprint to purchase the units...but those lines are long gone and the Pre has certainly lost its luster.

    Hardware wise, the build quality is good compared to the iPhone. I'm an old Palm user and love having access to a real keyboard and never could quite get used to the iTouch and iPhone felt in hand. Sprint 3G rocks in our area and ATT 3G is about the worse here in North Florida. I'm amazed that there are so many iPhone users who can't get calls inside...what good is a phone that can't get calls. The Pre is not perfect coverage wise, but then what is...

    Two or three things I would like to have sooner then later:

    1. Better App Management (Storage, Installation, etc)
    2. SDK Hardware Integration (looking forward to using the GFX chip)
    3. Audio and Video Recording (I suspect this is coming soon)
    4. Facebook (Dedicated app...wife has been wanting this for a while)


    Sorli...
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Yes. Unfortunately consumers don't give a damn about Palm's mission to its investors.
    It doesn't make any difference how consumers feel about palms mission. And palms mission regarding it's investors is the same as any other company: grow shareholder value. That mission doesn't affect someone standing in a sprint store deciding to buy a phone.
  4. s219's Avatar
    Posts
    498 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,008 Global Posts
    #44  
    All I can say is that I continue to be disappointed in the SDK, and the app catalog only serves to prove the point. There are a few decent apps, but many are embarrassing to look at. Makes me wonder if anyone at Palm really has a grip on reality.
  5. s219's Avatar
    Posts
    498 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,008 Global Posts
    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by dallashigh View Post
    Palm announces first quarter results: $164.5m net loss, 823k phones sold

    Smart phone sell-through for Palm's fiscal Q1 2010 (ended Aug 28, 2009) was 810,000, of which the Pre accounted for the "vast majority".

    Not quite a million, but considering they sold nearly 800k in less than three months, it's not at all unreasonable to assume that they've sold 200k more in the last two months.
    At the time, various estimates pointed to between 550-650K Pres came out of that 823K total. Compared to all other Palm models the Pre was the vast majority, but mathematically that meant about 65%-80%. Definitely not 800K.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    At the time, various estimates pointed to between 550-650K Pres came out of that 823K total. Compared to all other Palm models the Pre was the vast majority, but mathematically that meant about 65%-80%. Definitely not 800K.
    And those numbers were all before any European (and I think the Canadian) release. I suspect they passed the 1m mark.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    At the time, various estimates pointed to between 550-650K Pres came out of that 823K total. Compared to all other Palm models the Pre was the vast majority, but mathematically that meant about 65%-80%. Definitely not 800K.
    Here's my biggest tipoff as to Palm Pre sales not being at a million:

    No announcement. Whatever the terms of their Sprint deal were, there is no incentive to keep sales figures a secret now. In fact, I'm certain that the market and their investors would love to know where actual Pre sales stand.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sigh.... Here we go again. Your opinion is just that, yours. You holding that opinion does not make it "an objective criteria".

    Every OS has some bugs. Mine is not "bug ridden". Sorry to hear about yours.
    Every popular OS is in a situation where most of the applications are "trivial". Of course, "trivial" means it's not important to those not using it.

    Bypassing all the leading comments, I'd say that both the SDK nor the Apps Catalog have been "worth it". If they are the extent of what Palm is going to do, then I will be disappointed; however, by releasing both, we have seen some very good applications made available for the Pre, and in a remarkably short period of time.

    I think that Palm is very much on the right track.
    I've had the Pre since day 1. Its ok. I'm giving it to the wifey and getting a Droid.

    The App catalog is laughable.
    No vid recording yet (I know..its coming...soon lol)
    No GPU utilization...yes I know..they just hired that guy that will someday fix this.
    Basic features not available like msg forwarding, led notifications, etc. (I know homebrew has it available...average consumer doesn't know so MAJOR FAIL)

    I'd say that Palm's strategy has been terrible thus far. I know...the iphone's 1st year was similar right? Too bad there wasn't any competition back then like there is now or that argument might be valid.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by V1cK dB View Post
    I've had the Pre since day 1. Its ok. I'm giving it to the wifey and getting a Droid.

    The App catalog is laughable.
    No vid recording yet (I know..its coming...soon lol)
    No GPU utilization...yes I know..they just hired that guy that will someday fix this.
    Basic features not available like msg forwarding, led notifications, etc. (I know homebrew has it available...average consumer doesn't know so MAJOR FAIL)

    I'd say that Palm's strategy has been terrible thus far. I know...the iphone's 1st year was similar right? Too bad there wasn't any competition back then like there is now or that argument might be valid.
    I love my Pre, but I couldn't have said it better. People are comparing the Pre and what it can't do with the iPhone from 3 yrs ago. It's not 3 yrs ago. It's the end of 2009. What a phone can do TODAY is what matters.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Here's my biggest tipoff as to Palm Pre sales not being at a million:

    No announcement.
    i'd kinda agree. no point in not saying so. But even if they have the 823K plus never broke out the number for Pre sales. I'm sure a good portion was but hell good portion could be anything from 55% of that number to 100%.

    As for Bell Canada and Europe. I've heard Bell does not have the biggest number of customers so it may not be a massive addition numberswise. There are mixed reports about the European launch.

    On interesting thing is you look at motorola, Droid comes out Nov 6 in the USA, Cliq on Tmobile Nov. 2 and a GSM version of Droid hits Germany, Italy and "English speaking western Europe" all on Nov 9. I mean if you look just at how fast they got one phone into U.S. and Europe you can tell they didn't have a dragged out couple month plan like Palm did. They made the phone and just announce it's coming out. Clearly Motorola at least has some direction and they aren't wasting time. I think you can guess Motorola will sell a lot of phones and fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by V1cK dB View Post
    I know...the iphone's 1st year was similar right? Too bad there wasn't any competition back then like there is now or that argument might be valid.
    i think that's always a bad excuse. People don't go into a store and compare a pre now to iphone it's first year. They compare pre now to iphone now. Rationalizations like that i'm sure fly in palm meetings and on tech blogs by mobile phone followers but that's never going to sway the majority of general consumers. Palm does not have the luxury of providing service of a 3 year old caliber. And the reality is Palm is not doing as good as the iphone on sheer numbers. Iphone app catalog launched with 400 apps (according to wikipedia) and was up to 1000 in days. Palm's just isn't that successful.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 11/02/2009 at 08:08 PM.
  11. #51  
    Not only do people compare the Pre to the iphone from today...but they compare it to the Droid, Hero, HD2, etc...etc. The market is drastically different from when the iPhone was going through its growing pains. No competition back then so they got away with it. The funny thing is I don't think Palm is the one rationalizing the current situation with this absurd argument....its WebOS *******.
  12. a2k
    a2k is offline
    a2k's Avatar
    Posts
    103 Posts
    Global Posts
    111 Global Posts
    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by V1cK dB View Post
    I've had the Pre since day 1. Its ok. I'm giving it to the wifey and getting a Droid.

    The App catalog is laughable.
    No vid recording yet (I know..its coming...soon lol)
    No GPU utilization...yes I know..they just hired that guy that will someday fix this.
    Basic features not available like msg forwarding, led notifications, etc. (I know homebrew has it available...average consumer doesn't know so MAJOR FAIL)

    I'd say that Palm's strategy has been terrible thus far. I know...the iphone's 1st year was similar right? Too bad there wasn't any competition back then like there is now or that argument might be valid.
    Well said.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by V1cK dB View Post
    Not only do people compare the Pre to the iphone from today...but they compare it to the Droid, Hero, HD2, etc...etc. The market is drastically different from when the iPhone was going through its growing pains. No competition back then so they got away with it. The funny thing is I don't think Palm is the one rationalizing the current situation with this absurd argument....its WebOS *******.
    No your right it's that isn't from Palm's mouth, that said we don't hear much from Palm's mouth. But is is the phanbois saying it. The people who which palm can do nothing wrong and they are fighting some sort of nerd tech battle. I never get that. whether it's apple hate or whatever. There is surely more competition now.
  14. Xyg
    Xyg is offline
    Xyg's Avatar
    Posts
    1,104 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,113 Global Posts
    #54  
    What we have here are unrealistic expectations. To Sivan and anyone else complaining that Palm's rollout of it's App Catalog has thus far been inadequate, let me point something out:


    Do you see that big, blue, Beta banner? Yep, you've guessed it, that app catalog and the surrounding infrastructure is still in it's infancy and in the early access phase for developers, with the full-blown release slated for December.

    Folks have been far too dismissive and critical towards Palm in terms of this rollout and it's associated missteps far too early on in this process than rational thought should allow.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    We are now almost 5 months after launch. The Pre is bug ridden, the SDK is limited, not only technically, but also in what Palm lets developers use. The app catalog is mostly filled with trivial apps. By any objective criteria both have disappointed.

    Imagine an alternative scenario where Palm just shipped a device that worked really well out of the box but did not yet have a developer program or app catalog, although it gave a target time frame of a year from launch for those. In the mean time, Palm fixed issues quickly, improved performance and maybe threw in a good Facebook app and continued working with select partners to bring the most popular apps to the device. The perception of speed was at least as good as Android's.

    Building on this foundation they finally start focusing on an open developer program. The framework then has been thoroughly debugged and optimized and maybe Palm even had time to work on hardware acceleration.

    Back to reality. I'm aware that many here believed Palm must emulate Apple and compete with an app catalog and SDK for developer mindshare and follow the trendy "good enough" way of doing things. But looking back, this hasn't worked very well for Palm.

    So what do you think? I'm especially curious to hear from those who demanded an SDK and app store or those who still believe Palm is executing the right plan.
    Having moved from a T-Mobile G1 to a Pre I think that Palm has actually followed Google's strategy far more closely than Apple's except that it is moving even faster with webOS than Google did with Android. When I bought my G1 almost a year ago, it was buggy and slow and became even slower when it was loaded down with a lot of apps. The G1's hardware is inferior to that of the Pre and Android was far less polished than webOS. It took Google almost a year to push out an update that finally fixed the G1 to the point where it was truly usable -- and even now it's still slower than the Pre was after Palm's 1.0.2 update. It took six months to get paid apps on the G1, the Pre got them in three.

    While the App Catalog apps are limited, anyone who is willing to put their Pre into developer mode can install a wider variety of more powerful apps like My Tether, Tapboard, and Switcharoo. So while pessimists will likely always take a dim view of Palm's progress, they are farther along than Android was at this point in its existence and that's a pretty impressive benchmark.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    All I can say is that I continue to be disappointed in the SDK, and the app catalog only serves to prove the point. There are a few decent apps, but many are embarrassing to look at. Makes me wonder if anyone at Palm really has a grip on reality.
    Hyperbole much?

    Seriously, this is precisely the kind of post the drives me to drinking.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthRepublican View Post
    Having moved from a T-Mobile G1 to a Pre I think that Palm has actually followed Google's strategy far more closely than Apple's except that it is moving even faster with webOS than Google did with Android. When I bought my G1 almost a year ago, it was buggy and slow and became even slower when it was loaded down with a lot of apps. The G1's hardware is inferior to that of the Pre and Android was far less polished than webOS. It took Google almost a year to push out an update that finally fixed the G1 to the point where it was truly usable -- and even now it's still slower than the Pre was after Palm's 1.0.2 update. It took six months to get paid apps on the G1, the Pre got them in three.

    While the App Catalog apps are limited, anyone who is willing to put their Pre into developer mode can install a wider variety of more powerful apps like My Tether, Tapboard, and Switcharoo. So while pessimists will likely always take a dim view of Palm's progress, they are farther along than Android was at this point in its existence and that's a pretty impressive benchmark.
    Still, comparing their rate of development against Android, the iPhone or anyone else last year is irrelevant. What matters is where things stand RIGHT NOW.

    When a consumer walks into Sprint or has access to any other demo there's a 4/5 chance all they care about is what it can do right now and not what it's potentially capable of or what it will be six months from now.

    Potential won't make sales for Palm.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    What we have here are unrealistic expectations. To Sivan and anyone else complaining that Palm's rollout of it's App Catalog has thus far been inadequate, let me point something out:

    Do you see that big, blue, Beta banner? Yep, you've guessed it, that app catalog and the surrounding infrastructure is still in it's infancy and in the early access phase for developers, with the full-blown release slated for December.

    Folks have been far too dismissive and critical towards Palm in terms of this rollout and it's associated missteps far too early on in this process than rational thought should allow.
    Oh...that explains it. That makes it much better now. Beta! How did I miss that. In a time when the Pre has so many quality phones surrounding it to compete against...the app store being in Beta is a really good argument. Your right. Good luck with that.
  19. #59  
    Look nobody is going to argue that webOS can "beat" the others right now. It does have potential. Nobody is arguing that people should buy the Pre or Pixi based on its potential. The point is that the App Catalog is growing almost daily and the updates to both the OS and the SDK are coming regularly. webOS will catch up and will be able to "compete" in the future.

    If you are looking at app count and app capabilities, then you already know where the various platforms stand and there is no point in arguing.

    Yes webOS is "disappointing" in some way to just about everyone. There are things I wish it could do that it just can't do right now. But I know those features are coming. That's good enough for me. If it's not good enough for you, there are plenty of other platforms out there and I sincerely hope you find the right one for you.

    webOS does have features that are unique to it. The card system and notifications are pretty much unbeaten.

    Like I said, it all comes down to opinion and there is no point arguing about it because there's no right answer.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Okay, lets ask further: why hasn't the Pre been a success so far? Is it a lack of quality or of apps?
    I think Palm has made bad decisions, but I'm not sure that even a perfectly played strategy would have worked. A few stray observations:

    --Palm's brand is evidently very weak. An attractive, well reviewed product with a lot of hype pre-launch is largely met with consumer yawns.
    --If the Pre had been a smash hit, their "pre girl" commercials would have been iconic, the new "Dude, you're getting a Dell!" instead of just odd.
    --As much as I love sprint, the nation apparently strongly disagrees with me. Sprint has been a surprising negative for Palm. And while it's not clear that going all-in would have mattered, it would have been interesting to see an attempt.
    --While their commercials are far better than Palm's, they tended to use the Pre as an afterthought with their network being the main show; contrast with T-Mobile's vacuous but highly catchy mytouch 3G spots and the obvious appeal of Verizon's Droid ads.
    --the mail in rebates and lack of aggressive pricing in general were not helpful

    But back to where I started, given how fickle consumers are, I'm loathe to count Palm out. What if sales of the Droid (and related phones) are just "meh" after all the hype? Does that act as a Blackberry Storm-like momentum break for Android? And highish pricing aside, who's comfortable betting the farm that the Pixi absolutely won't surprise to the upside like the Centro did? (Now if the Pixi doesn't catch fire and the foreign sales of Pre don't either, I think Palm's in real danger).

    Numerous people have made suggestions about how Palm could alter their strategy, so I'll add a few things that I'm sure others have probably mentioned at some point:

    --Leak, leak, leak. If there are good things cooking with webos, selectively leak tidbits. Focus on generating excitement for webos 2.0 as a gamechanger (this strategy is easier if 2.0*is* actually a gamechanger, of course).
    --tweak the hardware. Part of the appeal of the Droid is it's killer hardware looks. A sexy metal Pre--particularly if introduced coincident with the launch on a new carrier-- can be hyped as a new version...even though it isn't really...
    --"cash for clunker" the Pixi. Blowout opening sales by spending some of the newly raised capital on making the Pixi $39 out the door, but only for the first week (or some such limited time). Or make it free. At this point, getting more webos units into consumer hands to make app development attractive (and this would occur independent of the quality of the SDK).
    --related to above, license webos. The closed apple type strategy made sense out of the gate. If it had caught on it would have been great for palm and for consumers who got a unified hardware/software solution. That strategy does not appear to be working. The ultimate goal would be to squeeze out some of Windows mobile's share and halt Android's advance.

    Anyway, my (long) two cents. I have no idea whether any of these suggestions could ignite the consumer fire that Palm needs. Here's hoping they find something that will.
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions