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  1. #21  
    hopefully it'll get much better if and when they start using the gpu thats inside our phones.
  2. #22  
    I think anyone who believes the Pre is laggy is wrong. I have used many smartphones over the years and the Pre does pretty well when it comes to speed. Yes it can get laggy from time to time but considering how many kernels it is running it is amazing that it isn't slower.

    Do you all realize that the Pre cannot access it's GPU as of yet and that all UI processes are handled by the CPU. The fact that it runs so smoothly is a feat by itself. When Palm develops drivers for the GPU then you will see some real magic.

    I just recently returned a Hero, you all think Android is not laggy try that device along with a G1 and My Touch, which I owned. They are all very laggy and suffer from a ton of memory leak issues.

    For as fledgling a platform as webOS, what it does it does extremely well. So what if it is missing a few bells and whistles, have some patience it will get better.

    SO STOP ALL THE ****ING COMPLAINING!!!!
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Might as well weigh in here as well... If a person spends 10 years with Palm, why would he jump ship after just a few short months? I simply cannot fathom how one can take the Pre experience to date as so horrible that it utterly destroy's one's belief that the device can and will be improved...
    I really care about Palm and truly hope they succeed. I "jumped ship" because I could not get medical apps to work. (classic just does not cut it for med apps). The calendar drove me crazy in meetings....it was embarrassing. The phone lag during a medical emergency was VERY stressful. So that is why I left.

    But I will be back when they hopefully get the "palm special sauce" back. For those of us that are old palmaholics, we really miss the old palm. You are right, it is not your father's palm.

    The hero is far from perfect, but is much closer to the old palm than the pre is. I have a drug app on the memory card that is instanteous. And several choices for SMS that actually have reminders like the old Butler app. You could spend days customizing it. Really well thought out.

    I do not mean to cause controversy....I feel like I lost an old friend in palm and it is hard to let go.....
  4. #24  
    In fact, it can take much less time than 6 months to ruin many decades of positive experience. That is well researched and proven marketing fact.

    And what's wrong with negative comments (as long as they are civil and truthful)?
    Without them, how can one distinguish legitimate criticism from childish fanboyism?
    iPhone; the official phone of 'the Borg'
  5. s219's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
    IMO, no. With currently available hardware, I think some "lag" is just the nature of the beast (a multitasking phone OS). If iPhoneOS was doing the same things as WebOS, I'm sure it would have some of the same problems. But since the iPhone only needs to run one app at a time, it can devote essentially all of its resources to making said app run silky smooth. WebOS has to do a balancing act between giving resources to the active card and holding resources for other cards so that switching between them is reasonably smooth. Result: less resources available for the active card.

    I'm sure that Palm can and will continue to optimize WebOS, but it's just not going to be as smooth as the iPhone without better hardware.

    I won't get into the argument how the iPhone does multi-task, because it's lost on most people here, who seem to think you need "cards" to have multi-tasking. But it's a mistake to say the iPhone is faster than the Pre because of this reason, because that's simply not true. If you focus on this aspect of the Pre and attribute the lag/slowness to it, you would be mistaken.

    This screenshot shows multiple apps running in the background on the iPhone, consuming both CPU and memory.



    While the iPhone is juggling these background tasks/apps, the front app is smooth and lag free. Clearly, if multi-tasking was the source of lag/slowdown, we'd see it on the iPhone. But that's not the case.

    Don't blame multi-tasking for the Pre's problems unless you want to say Palm's implementation of multi-tasking is flawed. If it was a good multi-tasking OS (like iPhone OS) it should have no issue balancing background tasks.
  6. #26  
    well I only see three things running there that takes up CPU cycles. If thats the case with the Iphone then lets see Safari, the calender, email, music, and text messaging going at the same time on top of the notifications, alerts, and phone app.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Raz Al Ghoul View Post
    ...I think anyone who believes the Pre is laggy is wrong.......
    Quote Originally Posted by Raz Al Ghoul View Post
    .....Yes it can get laggy from time to time....
    ??
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by rcyphermd View Post
    I really care about Palm and truly hope they succeed. I "jumped ship" because I could not get medical apps to work. (classic just does not cut it for med apps). The calendar drove me crazy in meetings....it was embarrassing. The phone lag during a medical emergency was VERY stressful. So that is why I left.

    But I will be back when they hopefully get the "palm special sauce" back. For those of us that are old palmaholics, we really miss the old palm. You are right, it is not your father's palm.

    The hero is far from perfect, but is much closer to the old palm than the pre is. I have a drug app on the memory card that is instanteous. And several choices for SMS that actually have reminders like the old Butler app. You could spend days customizing it. Really well thought out.

    I do not mean to cause controversy....I feel like I lost an old friend in palm and it is hard to let go.....
    That makes perfect sense. My apologies for making some bad assumptions.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. #29  
    Well I got a chance tonite to play with both the Hero at Sprint and a 3GS at the Apple store. Hands down the 3GS is smooth as silk. You tap a button it responds properly no double tap for it to register. A dialog box opens up you can scroll thru the list easily. The Hero you use the scroll ball and it moves effortlessly.

    Now the Pre you launch an app. 1...2...3... Oh it registers the app, still no screen. 4..5 Ah there it is. Press a dialog button, oh snap have to do it again it didn't respond. ***, I only see half the menu. Dang I didn't want that choice I was still scrolling.

    This is what Palm is up against. I cut them some slack in the beginning. Not now. It's put or shut up time Palm. Right now you are the math geek and 2 of the HS Athletes are eating you lunch. GET A CLUE IN A HURRY!!!!
  10. #30  
    I didn't read through EVERY post, but I don't think what I'm about to say was mentioned yet.

    This is the deal.
    webOS, like others have said before, is a very powerful operating system. It is an operating system that is ahead of its time. The hardware it needed to put into this phone for it to operate smoothly would have raised the production costs far too high for it to be a $300 price tag and for it to mark itself as a competitor to the iPhone on the market. Therefore, the hardware needed to be compromised for Palm to do what they really wanted to do, and that was to introduce a multitasking operating system on a phone that would dominate it's competition.

    The iPhone does NOT have multiple services running in the background (beside the OS and hardware services) due to it being a none multitasking phone. You can even download an app to show you that. The Pre runs MANY services (root your phone and check) due to it being a multitasking webOS. A majority of the people don't understand that AIM running in the background is an extra service. It takes up memory, which in turn contributes to choppiness on the phone. This is just a very small example of what kinds of services are running in the background and how they affect the choppiness of your phone.

    The Palm Pre uses a higher quality color display than the iPhone (that I know of). I have an iPhone 3G (which I'm selling) and I absolutely LOVE the color display on the Pre compared to the iPhone. The iPhone seems primitive in this area.

    Processor and Battery
    The Palm Pre has a faster processor (by far) than the iPhone 3G and I believe faster than the iPhone 3Gs (they both have the same processor, but the 3G was underclocked to give it a better battery life and because of overheating issues [see what happened with the 3Gs?]). Palm has been able to keep their battery extremely competitive considering it blows the iPhone away in CPU area.

    I'm almost 100% sure I forgot to say a lot more because I'm watching T.V. as I type this.

    Video Card
    The Palm Pre's video card is not powerful enough to handle the Pre's GUI and color bit rate. To counter this, there are two options; One, increase the hardware which would raise production costs and in turn would raise the cost of the Palm Pre; Two, decrease the color bit rate or dumb down the GUI. This would not be what Palm would want. When people first seem the iPhone, they say that it's very vibrant. The Pre is a different kind of phone in almost every way.

    Conclusion
    Instead of everyone judging the Palm Pre and bashing it, why don't the computer savvy try to assist Palm in finding "tweaks" and submitting them on their forums? Wouldn't that be much more productive? There is NO perfect phone. I have my iPhone and every time I look at it now, it seems like the most primitive thing out there in terms of design (it's a damn brick) and GUI.


    You can't have it all right now people. It's either webOS, or smoothness.

    So for people that don't understand the basics to selling a product or computers for that matter, don't criticize.
    Last edited by Reign25; 10/29/2009 at 11:17 PM. Reason: Remembered something.
  11. #31  
    FWIW, the only time it seems that my Pre is what I'd consider laggy is when Pandora is playing.
  12. #32  
    its lagginess has nothing to do with multitasking. the hero can multi task and does it smoothly with much more primitive hardware. the problem is the pre doesnt have a driver for its gpu yet. that is the key to everything...to 3d gaming..to faster app opening...everything. that and the fact that the pre supports 16million colors or whatever it is. but irregardless of the fact the gpu processor needs to be opened pronto. that would really speed things up. but one has to wonder if its even possible since they havent done it yet. maybe its not. either way i love the phone especially after a cple tweeks. i really need isilo for it n i hate running it thru classic but other than that its great. but yeah itd b great if they got that gpu driver.
  13. #33  
    I think it can seem laggy at times. Doesn't really bother me though most of the time. I assume as the OS gets developed more, it will get better. Its nothing that it unusable by any means. The lag that bothers me the most is the boot up time if you can call that a lag. Its horrible.
  14. s219's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    well I only see three things running there that takes up CPU cycles. If thats the case with the Iphone then lets see Safari, the calender, email, music, and text messaging going at the same time on top of the notifications, alerts, and phone app.
    Everything on that screen is running, it's the output of a UNIX top command. Stuff with capitalized names are apps, the rest are daemons or processes. You will see Safari, Mail and iPod among the apps that are running.

    Idle apps will drop to 0% CPU in a proper multi-tasking OS. I am sure the Pre does this as well. Apps should not be using CPU if they are idle. If they are, then the app or OS has major issues.
  15. s219's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reign25 View Post
    The iPhone does NOT have multiple services running in the background (beside the OS and hardware services) due to it being a none multitasking operating system.

    iPhone OS, like Mac OS X that it is based on, is a fully multi-tasking UNIX operating system.
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Raz Al Ghoul View Post
    I think anyone who believes the Pre is laggy is wrong.
    I missed a phone call this morning, because between the time when I pressed the "Accept Call" button, and the time when my Pre switched from the app I was using to the Phone app, and attempted to pick up the call, it had already gone to voice mail.

    I pressed accept within 1 second of the call arriving.
    "Anyone who quotes me in their signature is an *****." -- StormD
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    iPhone OS, like Mac OS X that it is based on, is a fully multi-tasking UNIX operating system.
    You are correct sir and that is my mistake. I should have put phone. I will correct that.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by StormD View Post
    I missed a phone call this morning, because between the time when I pressed the "Accept Call" button, and the time when my Pre switched from the app I was using to the Phone app, and attempted to pick up the call, it had already gone to voice mail.

    I pressed accept within 1 second of the call arriving.
    That has happened to me before, only once though. On the iPhone though, this was a SERIOUS and I mean SERIOUS problem. I wanted to throw it up against the wall. It was a 50% chance (I had 5 of them so don't say it was the phone) that it was either going to pick it up, or not pick it up. Funny thing is, it wasn't due to memory being low (which is what StormD described). I don't understand what the reason was, because it detected the input (my finger hitting the button) and it just kept ringing and the screen never moved, unlike when the Pre does it (again, rarely). hmmm. Maybe it was lag.
  19. #39  
    For the Pre to be less laggy, it needs to have a bigger Swap Partition (Virtual Memory/Pagefile). There is a thread on that here somewhere on how to increase it.

    Palm, I think, was unable to do this because they would no longer be able to say that it has 8 GB of memory (what the hell do I need 8 for when I have an MP3 player). By increasing the Swap Partition, you will have more virtual memory and less "Too Many Cards" errors.
  20. #40  
    palm pre rocks and yall haters dont ,go get a iphone and then you can complain about it somewhere else lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
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