Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1.    #1  
    I have a question, if the Palm Pre has gaming capabilities, why can't we play the same types of games as the iPhone???? I know they haven't been developed for the Palm Pre but when will Pre owners have gaming options (more advanced gaming not simple games like Spades, etc.)????
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by rider910 View Post
    I have a question, if the Palm Pre has gaming capabilities, why can't we play the same types of games as the iPhone???? I know they haven't been developed for the Palm Pre but when will Pre owners have gaming options (more advanced gaming not simple games like Spades, etc.)????
    Once Palm starts using (and letting devs access and use) the GPU (graphics processing unit)... I'm sure better games will come along.

    Also, once Flash is supported on the Pre (hopefully by early next year), you'll be able to play Flash-based games as well.

    /Kevin
  3. #3  
    Right now I'd say it has mostly to do with the fact that the Pre is not using the GPU for any hardware acceleration of the graphics, making any games look crappy or have such low frame rates that they are basically unplayable. This will hopefully change once Palm figures out how to use the GPU with webOS, but I wouldn't look for it anytime this year (2009).

    That said, this reminds me of my HTC Touch (Vogue) on Sprint. It didn't use the hardware acceleration, and was just slow with games and animation. The hardware was there, HTC just didn't enable it, and no one ever successfully wrote their own driver to enable it. I was SO MAD about that, and its happening again. Granted, I don't care about games. I just want the thing to be smooth and fluid, and not have the slowdowns associated with doing all graphic processing through the CPU. If palm doesn't fix this, then when I am up for an upgrade come June next year (I bought the Pre on launch day) I will be switching. Its stupid to have all this hardware and not use it. Thats why I think Palm ultimately will, but I thought the same of HTC and they screwed me over and wanted me to buy a new phone.... so we shall see....
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by supercluver View Post
    Right now I'd say it has mostly to do with the fact that the Pre is not using the GPU for any hardware acceleration of the graphics, making any games look crappy or have such low frame rates that they are basically unplayable. This will hopefully change once Palm figures out how to use the GPU with webOS, but I wouldn't look for it anytime this year (2009).

    That said, this reminds me of my HTC Touch (Vogue) on Sprint. It didn't use the hardware acceleration, and was just slow with games and animation. The hardware was there, HTC just didn't enable it, and no one ever successfully wrote their own driver to enable it. I was SO MAD about that, and its happening again. Granted, I don't care about games. I just want the thing to be smooth and fluid, and not have the slowdowns associated with doing all graphic processing through the CPU. If palm doesn't fix this, then when I am up for an upgrade come June next year (I bought the Pre on launch day) I will be switching. Its stupid to have all this hardware and not use it. Thats why I think Palm ultimately will, but I thought the same of HTC and they screwed me over and wanted me to buy a new phone.... so we shall see....
    HTC is, in my experience and opinion, awful. They also roll out so many phones to so many carriers, they rarely issue updates. (I said rarely, not never.) Palm has already issued more updates for the Pre than most HTC phones get in a lifetime.

    So, HOPEFULLY they enable the GPU sooner rather than later. Only time will tell. I know a lot of folks have a bad taste in their mouth from Palm as well, just as I do with HTC, but at least with Palm, some can hold out hope that it's a "new company" (due to new ownership, etc.).

    /Kevin
  5. #5  
    Why would HTC issue as many updates as Palm when they don't make operating systems, and the ones they support (Android, Windows Mobile) are fairly established?

    WebOS has yet to even be finished, so it's only natural that Palm would be throwing out update after update even if they fix relatively little.

    It's absolutely true that HTC went through a similar problem with ATI Imageon technology on their Qualcomm chipsets. And yet, I own a Hero with that very same chipset, and I'm playing arcade-ish games on it while it runs 10 different apps and widgets in the background, and transitions are a hell of a lot smoother than they ever were on Pre.

    And with HTC moving to Snapdragons going forward, it's only going to get better. I'm hoping the Pre2 or whatever it is is similarly endowed, although I have no idea how Palm would actually use the horsepower since the baseline WebOS spec is the low-resolution, sluggish processor-stricken Pixi. They'd have to split the WebOS app market in two before it ever gets on solid footing.
  6. #6  
    You can't make web languages run faster by using a GPU. GPU's accelerate compiled languages. The pre uses no compiled languages.

    The only way you are going to see games like on the iphone is if they make WebOS almost kind of hybrid, and allow people to run compiled code on it, as well as the javascript html that it uses now. Getting it to do that AND be multitasking is going to be very tough though.

    I get sick of all these posts/threads that make it sound like somehow flipping a switch to enable the GPU will make the PRE super fast and smooth. It won't happen. Such posts are a result of a basic misunderstanding of how Web languages work.
  7. #7  
    One day....there will be a phone that gives us all we love about the Pre with the smoothness of the iPhone. Since my contract is not up for another 1.5 years, I am hoping that that phone will exist then!
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Why would HTC issue as many updates as Palm when they don't make operating systems, and the ones they support (Android, Windows Mobile) are fairly established?

    WebOS has yet to even be finished, so it's only natural that Palm would be throwing out update after update even if they fix relatively little.

    It's absolutely true that HTC went through a similar problem with ATI Imageon technology on their Qualcomm chipsets.
    Alright, you're right, it's not up to HTC to issue the updates in most cases (short of drivers or something along those lines).

    And I can only speak for devices I've owned (HTC PPC-6700, Mogul/6800, HTC/Sprint Touch, and HTC Touch Pro), but their problems were all hardware related anyway, nothing that a software update would fix in most cases (device overheating, etc.).

    To me, it's a PLUS that Palm makes both the hardware and software. With my HTC devices, it seemed like HTC would blame things on Microsoft, Microsoft would blame things on HTC, etc. Palm can only blame itself.

    /Kevin
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    You can't make web languages run faster by using a GPU. GPU's accelerate compiled languages. The pre uses no compiled languages.

    The only way you are going to see games like on the iphone is if they make WebOS almost kind of hybrid, and allow people to run compiled code on it, as well as the javascript html that it uses now. Getting it to do that AND be multitasking is going to be very tough though.

    I get sick of all these posts/threads that make it sound like somehow flipping a switch to enable the GPU will make the PRE super fast and smooth. It won't happen. Such posts are a result of a basic misunderstanding of how Web languages work.
    It won't effect day-to-day usage of 'normal' apps, but are you saying the GPU won't help games, either? I haven't researched it that heavily, because honestly, I'm not that 'into' games, but I wouldn't mind trying them out if they existed, either.

    Why is the GPU there if it serves no purpose now (disabled) and serves no future purpose (won't help if enabled)? Honest question. I'm not expecting the GPU to help with stuff like e-mail or text messaging or anything, but I thought it would help with games in the future. If not, that's kinda lame and definitely makes me wonder why the GPU is even there. If it won't help anything, then it may never be enabled after all.

    /Kevin
  10. #10  
    I will get to the point I miss playing baseball and football and the occasional other game on my phone. I will migrate away from this phone and Palm over this small issue. I enjoy being able to play a game or 2 on my down time. All other smart phones are capable so I have choices. As a consumer Palm can do what they want. Keep the device and the GPU disabled and see what happens. This is not a threat but some thing that will happen ...at least with me.

    This phone is a love and hate relationship.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by commonplace View Post
    It won't effect day-to-day usage of 'normal' apps, but are you saying the GPU won't help games, either? I haven't researched it that heavily, because honestly, I'm not that 'into' games, but I wouldn't mind trying them out if they existed, either.

    Why is the GPU there if it serves no purpose now (disabled) and serves no future purpose (won't help if enabled)? Honest question. I'm not expecting the GPU to help with stuff like e-mail or text messaging or anything, but I thought it would help with games in the future. If not, that's kinda lame and definitely makes me wonder why the GPU is even there. If it won't help anything, then it may never be enabled after all.

    /Kevin
    What everyone is hoping for is that enabling the GPU will not just make iphone like games possible, but will also bring the smoothness of the OS to iPhone standards. The problem, as mentioned above, isn't that it's just a simple matter of Palm somehow flipping a switch and turning the GPU on, the problem is webOS itself. The programming language that's used for not just the OS but every App that runs on it is just web language which doesn't allow access to the hardware that easily if at all. I am not expert at this, but unfortunately, the ease of development for apps is also the Pre's downfall when it comes to its graphical prowness. It takes a compiled language to write fast code, and java and css just don't cut it for that.

    And flash, while it will be nice to have, is also a two sided sword. Load times for flash intensive websites will be pretty high, battery usage will go up, and the flash games we are all hoping for...well, lets just see how fast they will run.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by MannyZ28 View Post
    The programming language that's used for not just the OS but every App that runs on it is just web language which doesn't allow access to the hardware that easily if at all. <snip> It takes a compiled language to write fast code, and java and css just don't cut it for that.

    And flash, while it will be nice to have, is also a two sided sword. Load times for flash intensive websites will be pretty high, battery usage will go up, and the flash games we are all hoping for...well, lets just see how fast they will run.
    So with the GPU enabled, is it still not possible to write games (and/or other apps) that access the GPU and hardware directly? Will 'real' games still not be possible? Is it that Palm doesn't allow compiled code, or that no one does it because there's no advantage to it, or...?

    I'm just trying to figure this out for my own sake.


    And yes, I agree with you about Flash. I'm definitely anxious to see how well the implementation of Flash is on webOS. It would seem almost inevitable to me (the non-programmer ) that Flash would eat up the battery.

    /Kevin
  13. mejifair's Avatar
    Posts
    53 Posts
    Global Posts
    65 Global Posts
    #13  
    I just want to play Tiger Woods like my friend can on his 3GS...but alas, it is too much to ask for.
  14. #14  
    There is some sort of web version of OpenGL in the works. Maybe that's one hope we can count on!
  15. s219's Avatar
    Posts
    498 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,008 Global Posts
    #15  
    There are many factors contributing to the issue -- the SDK, the lack of GPU support, and the choice of html/javascript/css. As a developer, this has been frustrating to me since day one. I honestly would not expect any good games on this platform for at least a year. It's painful to say, but that's my honest opinion based on some knowledge of software roadmaps (like webGL).

    Flash is the best hope right now. That said, Flash games are usually a bit primitive in many ways too. It's still not going to come near to the level of performance and sophistication we can get on the iPhone. There is no substitute (yet) for a good native SDK and OpenGL.

    My basic summary is this: look around at the current games -- what you see now is a very good representation of the state of the art on this platform for the foreseeable future. Better get used to it. If developers could do better they would be.
  16. #16  
    Web languages itself are not the limiting factor when trying to access the GPU. The SDK just needs to provide the required services for developers to access. It shouldn't be any different from accessing accelerometer, GPS etc.
    Those services obviously aren't written in JSJSJS ($I$ $suppose$ $C$ $or$ $C$++) $as$ $they$ $directly$ $communicate$ $with$ $the$ $hardware$. $If$ $such$ $a$ $service$ $is$ $available$ $for$ $accessing$ $the$ $GPU$ $it$ $can$ $use$ $all$ $its$ $features$ $while$ $being$ $accessed$ $using$ $JS$.
    Check out X3D/VRML, which is a simple XML-language, yet (depending on browser and hardware) able to use the GPU efficiently. The problem is not the language but the underlying modules interpreting the code and accessing the hardware.

    I don't give much hope on Flash as a mobile gaming plattform. Current Flash games require quite some horsepower, the GPU acceleration introduced with Flash10 will not magically start working on the Pre until Adobe or Palm develop a sophisticated interface to the GPU firmware.

    Best hope is Palm providing a service in one of the next SDKs allowing to access GPU for 2D/3D acceleration. In turn that means any application would have to be rewritten to make us of those features.

    I don't think that the current WebOS is sluggish because the graphical capabilities aren't used. It seems more like a memory managment problem. Thus even if the GPU can get accessed - the system will not turn more fluid magically.
  17. #17  
    wow you guys know your stuff. stinks we wont have any games with great graphics. maybe thats why "they" try to sell the pre by saying its for the busy person? but this busy person wants to play some cool games dangit.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by balkeee View Post
    wow you guys know your stuff. stinks we wont have any games with great graphics. maybe thats why "they" try to sell the pre by saying its for the busy person? but this busy person wants to play some cool games dangit.
    There are some great games already with high replay value, which, honestly, are the games I come back to more than the high end. Remember that iPhone started with web-only games (and not even installable), which didn't exactly push the envelope, either.

    Palm is, as far as I can tell, working on making more sophisticated graphics available to developers (hopefully better sound, too), so hang in there.
    Dave Balmer, Gobico Games

    Thanks for your support! Check out Wobble Words 2 and Poker Drops available now in the App Catalog for Palm Pre and Pixi, and follow us on Twitter @GobicoGames to get the latest news.
  19. #19  
    im hanging. i do love the games i have i just want my phone to be more competitive with the others in the same category. i have been feeling a lot of negativity about the pre lately and this is just more fuel for the haters fire.
  20. wicketr's Avatar
    Posts
    232 Posts
    Global Posts
    249 Global Posts
    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by balkeee View Post
    wow you guys know your stuff. stinks we wont have any games with great graphics. maybe thats why "they" try to sell the pre by saying its for the busy person? but this busy person wants to play some cool games dangit.
    Yea, the problem is it isn't offering what the business person really wants either. The calendar is half-assed. The text-message system doesn't have forwarding capability, or a way to set up a group if you send out messages to the same group of people. Docs-to-go? A good Task App would be nice. As well as a "non-childish" note taking app would be needed.

    If it's not a gaming phone, and it's not a phone for a business man, who is this phone for then?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions