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  1. #41  
    just curious... What are these amazing apps that you guys just have to have other than games? I know Shazam was mentioned...ok, I could see that being entertaining for some, but what else?

    I'm asking cause an iphone user friend was bragging about the number of iphone apps. I asked him which ones he used and all he named were apps that I have on my Pre...same with my brother. Hehe.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    So the developers who have said that it's very easy to develop apps for webOS are wrong? The CTO of Pandora has said in an interview that the 1st version of their application only took 3 days for them to create.

    Sure, it can't do 3D games right now, but WebGL will help change that.
    It's crippled in more ways than not having anyway to access the GPU, and WebGL isn't going to level the playing field in that area either.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by speak easy View Post
    just curious... What are these amazing apps that you guys just have to have other than games? I know Shazam was mentioned...ok, I could see that being entertaining for some, but what else?

    I'm asking cause an iphone user friend was bragging about the number of iphone apps. I asked him which ones he used and all he named were apps that I have on my Pre...same with my brother. Hehe.
    Are you seriously suggesting that if you take games out of the picture, the current Pre app catalog - and hell, you can throw in Homebrew as well - is on par with Android's or Apple's or even Windows Mobile?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Part of the problem is that a lot of issues don't have to do with Palm introducing "new" features and capabilities, but rather shipping with the basics so very crippled. I got tired of waiting for them to actually finish the OS. Whatever you say about Android or iPhone five months after launch, the apps had menus that made sense and software that actually used the hardware on each device.

    Palm's not even to that point. People keep talking about how WebOS will blossom when it gets to 1.5 or 2.0. They're not at 1.0 yet, really.
    I'm pretty sure that Android and the iPhone were raked over the coals by (rational) folks for being rather limited in their capabilities from the outset. When did the iPhone get cut and paste? MMS? Video? "Real" apps? A decent camera? And if I remember correctly, not everybody considers Android, even today, to have the most intuitive UI.

    I really think that Palm is in a damned-if-they-do, damned-if-they-don't situation. They could have waited to release the Pre, and possibly ceased existing as a going concern, or release as they did and fix things as they go along. Folks attacking them now because they're not moving fast enough seems both a waste of time, and potentially self-defeating if one's goal is a successful platform.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  5. #45  
    I'm not suggesting anything. I'm asking what are these apps that are so amazing that you have to have. Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. Or maybe I'm not missing anything.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by speak easy View Post
    I'm not suggesting anything. I'm asking what are these apps that are so amazing that you have to have. Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. Or maybe I'm not missing anything.
    I'd say that the apps that some folks are missing require access to hardware that the current SDK doesn't provide. For myself, I certainly wouldn't mind having video and voice recording. I'm not worried so much about graphics-heavy gaming, but I'd like 2D games that didn't suffer from periodic lagging.

    At the same time, I find the Pre to be an incredibly useful device that, for my more serious communications needs, is superior to any other smartphone I've used. Aside from the sometimes-laggy dialer app (which in my mind is the Pre's most serious shortcoming at this point), the Pre is a good phone, it's great for messaging, and it has a Web experience that is second only to the iPhone, if at all. And, it can do many things at the same time (although the CDMA voice-data limitation is a problem, but that's not Palm's fault), in a way that no other mobile device can.

    It makes me more productive, as is. I don't mind waiting for the "fun" stuff.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  7. Stihl's Avatar
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    #47  
    Everyone complaining about threads like these by saying 'don't buy them' fail to take into account the fact that talking about these apps is an important part of people understanding why they should or should not buy. It gives more complete information.

    That said, I would love to have a sticked thread or something-or perhaps a floating thread that gets bumped occasionally rather than a stick-instead of multiple threads about this same topic.

    Of course, if I had my way this forum would probably have several floater threads, and you would get muted for not posting correctly in them: 'I just discovered a new and interesting feature!(not)', 'My phone gets too hot, mommy!', and 'Sorry palm pre, I'mma let you finish, but the htc hero is the best smartphone of all tiiiime.' This would help keep down frustration levels when people come to the forum for new or interesting information only to be waylaid by a deluge of worthlessness.

    Ah, a man can dream.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Android and the iPhone were raked over the coals by (rational) folks for being rather limited in their capabilities from the outset. When did the iPhone get cut and paste? MMS? Video? "Real" apps? A decent camera? And if I remember correctly, not everybody considers Android, even today, to have the most intuitive UI.
    I don't remember Apple ever touting these features before they offered them. And what they DID tout, they did damn well. Palm, on the other hand, touts iTunes sync they can't control, integrated calendars that are slow as molasses, a "revolutionary" OS that doesn't even have finished menus, and multitasking so stricken by poor memory management that users get "Too Many Cards" messages with 1-2 cards open.

    When what you tout works so poorly, does it matter what you promise down the line?

    I really think that Palm is in a damned-if-they-do, damned-if-they-don't situation. They could have waited to release the Pre, and possibly ceased existing as a going concern, or release as they did and fix things as they go along. Folks attacking them now because they're not moving fast enough seems both a waste of time, and potentially self-defeating if one's goal is a successful platform.
    That's not my critique at all. Speed is pointless if you just make mistakes faster. That seems to be what they're doing. How many updates have "fixed" iTunes sync? Three? How many have fixed the app limit? Or the menus? Or the photos app? Or the choppy dialer? Or the memory leaks?
  9. #49  
    I have to disagree with all of the 1st gen Iphone, 1st gen android arguments this cop out has been used to death.
    I understand that comparing in a television market has less to do with software and more to do with hardware, so I will use some software examples.
    When microsoft entered the gaming industry the xbox was not only competing with sony but further advanced, despite a few early glitches that got nipped in the **** rather quickly. same scenario when nintendo took of ataris market, and when sega took over nintendos market, and when sony took over nintendo and sonys market.
    When apple came on the scene with macintosh they were on every level able to compete with p.c..
    when LG entered the television market they were technology wise competing with sony, samsung, pioneer etc.
    I fail to see how the smart phone market deserves any exceptions!!!!
    not to mention when apple firs introduced their app catalog it came along slowly, but HELLO APPLE INVENTED THE APP GAME OF COURSE THEY HIT SOME SPEED BUMPS THEY PAVED THE WAY.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I don't remember Apple ever touting these features before they offered them. And what they DID tout, they did damn well. Palm, on the other hand, touts iTunes sync they can't control, integrated calendars that are slow as molasses, a "revolutionary" OS that doesn't even have finished menus, and multitasking so stricken by poor memory management that users get "Too Many Cards" messages with 1-2 cards open.

    When what you tout works so poorly, does it matter what you promise down the line?



    That's not my critique at all. Speed is pointless if you just make mistakes faster. That seems to be what they're doing. How many updates have "fixed" iTunes sync? Three? How many have fixed the app limit? Or the menus? Or the photos app? Or the choppy dialer? Or the memory leaks?
    I agree that work needs to be done on the device's performance. If that's your primary concern, then we're in agreement--Palm should be focusing right now on making the Pre more robust and reliable. I can mention some other areas, such as the dialer app and email, where responsiveness is a real issue at times. Of course, as Palm focuses on the core apps, they're not adding video recording and such, and they'll be attacked from that angle. Hence, damned-if-they-do, and damned-if-they-don't.

    The iTunes syncing thing, though, I see as a bit of a red herring. Palm takes almost no time "fixing" this, and I think it's a bit of an inside joke overall. I agree that it's a mistake, long-term, to keep promoting iTunes syncing as a feature when there are other, better alternatives (I mean, how many people really _like_ iTunes, after all?), but I think Palm's earned the right to poke a stick at Apple every now and then.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    and it has a Web experience that is second only to the iPhone...
    I used to believe this too, but my Android experience has me believing the Pre is behind both iPhone and that.

    The Pre browser renders fairly quickly, accurately, and the scrolling and pinch/zoom is super smooth. Those are great things. But once you do those, then you have to read the Webpage and you spend far more time doing that.

    The text resizing and page reformatting on Android buries the Pre browsing experience, IMHO. Tiny fonts are a persistent problem on content-heavy pages on the Pre. And I can keep sites open as long as I want on Android, whereas on Pre, I have to be careful not leave browser windows open for too long because I start getting memory errors.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I agree that work needs to be done on the device's performance. If that's your primary concern, then we're in agreement--Palm should be focusing right now on making the Pre more robust and reliable. I can mention some other areas, such as the dialer app and email, where responsiveness is a real issue at times. Of course, as Palm focuses on the core apps, they're not adding video recording and such, and they'll be attacked from that angle. Hence, damned-if-they-do, and damned-if-they-don't.
    But the performance is an intrinsic problem with the whole "Oh, we'll just render everything in Java and let the CPU do all the work" decision that was made at the earliest design stages. It's not like "Oh, we got the basics right, and now we need to tweak".

    The iTunes syncing thing, though, I see as a bit of a red herring. Palm takes almost no time "fixing" this, and I think it's a bit of an inside joke overall. I agree that it's a mistake, long-term, to keep promoting iTunes syncing as a feature when there are other, better alternatives (I mean, how many people really _like_ iTunes, after all?), but I think Palm's earned the right to poke a stick at Apple every now and then.
    It's not a joke when it's promoted to every potential customer more than once on Palm's website. It's time to stop pretending they're doing this to needle Apple when it's part of their promotional copy and has been since launch.

    And it's hardly a red herring. It takes "no time" to enable a lot of the features enabled through patching as well, but I don't see Palm rushing out 1.2.2 for these features as they rushed out 1.2.1 to re-enable iTunes sync. They're very clearly communicating where their priorities lie.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre browser renders fairly quickly, accurately, and the scrolling and pinch/zoom is super smooth. Those are great things. But once you do those, then you have to read the Webpage and you spend far more time doing that.
    eh? your iphone/hero reads the page for you or something?

    I rotate landscape, double tap on the text block I want to read, and its instantly resized where i can read just fine. I can scan text on my Pre faster than I can on my netbook because I can quickly change focus, scroll, and move about.

    What pages give you these too tiny font issues? Perhaps my young eyes just havent expired yet.

    With most webpages, I can have 8-10 open at once, and keep them open without having issues. If I do run into card issues, I close them, wait a minute, then reopen the browser. Or, I just dont keep apps open indefinitely. Of course, I tend to use my phone for something specific, finish the task, then close the cards. If I leave them open, I wont remember why I had them open to begin with ahaha. Only ones I leave open (most of the time) are email and messaging, or Pandora/music if Im riding.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by phreakish View Post
    eh? your iphone/hero reads the page for you or something?

    I rotate landscape, double tap on the text block I want to read, and its instantly resized where i can read just fine. I can scan text on my Pre faster than I can on my netbook because I can quickly change focus, scroll, and move about.

    What pages give you these too tiny font issues? Perhaps my young eyes just havent expired yet.
    It's different, Android uses reflowable text on the pages, so it'll adjust it to be readable at all times, pretty much.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But the performance is an intrinsic problem with the whole "Oh, we'll just render everything in Java and let the CPU do all the work" decision that was made at the earliest design stages. It's not like "Oh, we got the basics right, and now we need to tweak".



    It's not a joke when it's promoted to every potential customer more than once on Palm's website. It's time to stop pretending they're doing this to needle Apple when it's part of their promotional copy and has been since launch.

    And it's hardly a red herring. It takes "no time" to enable a lot of the features enabled through patching as well, but I don't see Palm rushing out 1.2.2 for these features as they rushed out 1.2.1 to re-enable iTunes sync. They're very clearly communicating where their priorities lie.
    Dont you think the reality is probably that Palm is busy trying to get these 'core' functions working, like using the GPU, and that they did what they had to in order to get a working device to market? It would make sense to let the CPU handle everything at first, then go back, do the heavy lifting, and release an update while in the mean time selling devices that function, but just not optimally. Palm is likely leaving the 'light work' to devs and the talented user community - why else use a linux platform and javascript/HTML? They knew that the greatest fixes to their software would likely come from the masses, which is a benefit as they get to focus on making the core OS work better.

    At least, this is my hope. If this turns out to be false, I will be sorely disappointed and will merely enjoy this phone until my next upgrade. This line of thinking does seem to make practical sense, however, and seems to follow most the model of most technical industries: get it to 'work', sell it to generate income, use income to better the system all the while developing new platforms to increase revenue even more. Being a one-trick pony wont keep Palm afloat forever, and I doubt most of their employees are that close to retirement age
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    It's different, Android uses reflowable text on the pages, so it'll adjust it to be readable at all times, pretty much.
    Hmm,. I always assumed the Pre did too, Ive only had a few 'bad' web experiences, but those pages were also pretty horrible even on a desktop. Otherwise everything Ive encountered has been easily read. Not that I dont believe you, I just haven't encountered a problem yet (that seemed to be intrinsic to the phone), but then I again I tend to visit most of the same pages day to day on my phone (bank, amazon, random smattering of other sites) and most are professionally developed sites with mobile support.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by phreakish View Post
    eh? your iphone/hero reads the page for you or something?

    I rotate landscape, double tap on the text block I want to read, and its instantly resized where i can read just fine. I can scan text on my Pre faster than I can on my netbook because I can quickly change focus, scroll, and move about.

    What pages give you these too tiny font issues? Perhaps my young eyes just havent expired yet.
    Speaking of the scrolling, I haven't run into ONE checkerboard yet on Android's browser, whereas the Pre checkerboards on scrolling even the MOBILE version of this very forum.

    That aside, it may not be easy for you to understand the benefit of auto-resizing until you use it. It's a mobile phone. So you want the text to be resized to your screen always. The Pre resizes to whatever field the text exists in, not your screen. You get the full size, the double tap size...and that's it. Android's browser sizes the text to fit your screen perfectly at ANY size you pinch the browser to.

    I'm sure it won't matter to some people. I say...try 'em both and see for yourself.
  18. Joey316g's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    just out of curiosity do people really have that hard of a time figuring out how much to tip that we need 15 tip calculators?
    Its pretty simple I can save you from having to take your phone out of your pocket. simply subtract the last # from your bill and move the decimal point one # to the left. You now have 10% of your bill if your service was good double that amount and you now have a 20% tip. If your service was not so good divide your 10% by 2 and add it to the 10% you now have a 15% tip etc.
    Glad I was able to help by teaching you some basic elementary school level math feel free to hit the thanks button (if you are capable of finding it)
    haha...that was great
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by phreakish View Post
    Dont you think the reality is probably that Palm is busy trying to get these 'core' functions working, like using the GPU, and that they did what they had to in order to get a working device to market?
    I thought Palm was among the holy trinity (Apple, RIM, Palm) who were able to marry hardware and software perfectly, so they were in another league than the rest of the market?

    At least, that's the line they've been pushing for the past several months, right?

    It would make sense to let the CPU handle everything at first, then go back, do the heavy lifting, and release an update while in the mean time selling devices that function, but just not optimally. Palm is likely leaving the 'light work' to devs and the talented user community - why else use a linux platform and javascript/HTML? They knew that the greatest fixes to their software would likely come from the masses, which is a benefit as they get to focus on making the core OS work better.
    But it's not just "an update". The entire architecture of the OS and all of the accompanying apps for pretty much the first generation of WebOS ignore this. An update from Palm will not retroactively fix this down the line.

    Palm's first impressions with consumers are selling beta apps in a beta app store developed with a beta SDK. That doesn't make sense...to me, at least.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But the performance is an intrinsic problem with the whole "Oh, we'll just render everything in Java and let the CPU do all the work" decision that was made at the earliest design stages. It's not like "Oh, we got the basics right, and now we need to tweak".



    It's not a joke when it's promoted to every potential customer more than once on Palm's website. It's time to stop pretending they're doing this to needle Apple when it's part of their promotional copy and has been since launch.

    And it's hardly a red herring. It takes "no time" to enable a lot of the features enabled through patching as well, but I don't see Palm rushing out 1.2.2 for these features as they rushed out 1.2.1 to re-enable iTunes sync. They're very clearly communicating where their priorities lie.
    I'm going to move on from this thread because it's already taken enough of my time, except to say: as much as I don't agree with Palm fretting about iTunes syncing, as long as they've marketed that capability then they need to maintain it. So, they're bound to "rush out" an update to fix it where they're not bound to come out with other features/fixes that clearly require more time. Note that Palm came out with other incremental updates to fix issues such as Exchange syncing, which are also clearly promoted.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
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