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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I think it is not a valid question. The Pre is not competing against 2007. If it is, it has no business in the game. The only meaningful standard of comparison is what is on offer right now, not months or years from now, not months or years ago, but now. No one has to answer for what the iPhone was or was not two years ago. As I recall, no one gave it a pass because it was new to market. It had to meet expectations of the time and was raked brutally over the coals when it fell short.
    Did you read what I wrote a few posts back? Yes, Palm is competing against devices that have had significantly more time on the market, and being actively developed. That's the reality, and it's a tough row to hoe.

    However, that fact by itself doesn't magically change what Palm--or any company, for that matter--is capable of accomplishing. Just because the iPhone was released two years ago doesn't mean that Palm can miraculously compress those two years into a few months, no matter how much I'm sure they'd love to do so.

    The Pre was released in June of this year, not 2007, and so I say again: compare the Pre to where the iPhone was after five months on the market, and tell me how Palm is doing. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not asking you how competitive Palm is against the iPhone (or any other device), but simply how the Pre compares in its development.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  2. #22  
    I'll give you that on the app side, but not the OS side. I think Apple did a much better job with its OS for just entering the mobile phone arena compared to palm that had 13yrs of OS experience on top of four or so generations of smartphone experience.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    It's not a matter of giving them a pass. It's a matter of being realistic. Obviously, nothing we do or say on this forum is going to make Palm any more or less capable of improving the Pre (although, given this site's popularity, we can certainly harm Palm's efforts by being unnecessarily negative).

    Compare the Pre to where the iPhone was during its first five months, and let me know whether you think Palm is doing better or worse.
    I think this tends to explain why people who voice their opinion against the pre are constantly attacked by fan boys and not vice versa. I would have to suspect that the 4 or 5 people who you continuously come on these threads and pick fights and argue with negative posts probably own some shares in palms stock.
    My best advice to these people would be to follow palms business plan and sell your stock sooner than later. I am not a stock analyst but it appears to me that palms game plan is to sell a lot of devices now and make quick money and than most likely sell out. At the pace palm is moving and how they seem to be more focused on making and selling more devices and not on polishing the device they already have, my guess is that they are about quick money and not long term.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by wodin View Post
    And you know that because?
    Uh, how about because the code is visible for all to see.
  5. #25  
    Actually, despite how critical I've been of the Pre's progress in a lot of areas, I think the apps have been fairly decent considering the crippled beta SDK. Keeping that in mind, there's a decent selection for a few months of development.

    HOWEVER, I think there's an unsettling amount of generic look and feel to the apps that make them seem more "homemade" and amateur-ish than they are.

    Take a look at the visual representation of the current catalog: Palm webOS Applications : Palm USA

    Aside from the Games section, everything has a same-y vibe with the big gray bar at the top and oval buttons. There DEFINITELY needs to be some GUI innovation. Android and iPhone apps look way more varied, diverse, and polished.

    But overall, I think the developers have done ok considering they're being forced to work with with one hand and one foot tied behind their backs.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    I'll give you that on the app side, but not the OS side. I think Apple did a much better job with its OS for just entering the mobile phone arena compared to palm that had 13yrs of OS experience on top of four or so generations of smartphone experience.
    If I'm not mistaken, the iPhone was lacking many features common to virtually every smartphone out there until the 3GS (cut and past of any kind, video, MMS, etc., etc.). And in fact, the iPhone is still quite limited as a smartphone. Many of the complaints of folks here, in particular about the limited PIM capabilities of the Pre, apply to the iPhone in spades.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  7. Stihl's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    just out of curiosity do people really have that hard of a time figuring out how much to tip that we need 15 tip calculators?
    Its pretty simple I can save you from having to take your phone out of your pocket. simply subtract the last # from your bill and move the decimal point one # to the left. You now have 10% of your bill if your service was good double that amount and you now have a 20% tip. If your service was not so good divide your 10% by 2 and add it to the 10% you now have a 15% tip etc.
    Glad I was able to help by teaching you some basic elementary school level math feel free to hit the thanks button (if you are capable of finding it)
    what manner of sorcery be this?
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    I would have to suspect that the 4 or 5 people who you continuously come on these threads and pick fights and argue with negative posts probably own some shares in palms stock.
    Your ad hominem doesn't become you...
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    HOWEVER, I think there's an unsettling amount of generic look and feel to the apps that make them seem more "homemade" and amateur-ish than they are.

    ...

    Aside from the Games section, everything has a same-y vibe with the big gray bar at the top and oval buttons. There DEFINITELY needs to be some GUI innovation. Android and iPhone apps look way more varied, diverse, and polished.
    To play devil's advocate on this though, one might also argue that Pre apps look more consistent and professional, since they maintain the same look throughout.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Did you read what I wrote a few posts back?...

    The Pre was released in June of this year, not 2007, and so I say again: compare the Pre to where the iPhone was after five months on the market, and tell me how Palm is doing. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not asking you how competitive Palm is against the iPhone (or any other device), but simply how the Pre compares in its development.
    Yes, I read your post. I am only dialoguing with you because I believe you are worth dialoguing with. The iPhone sold its first million units in 74 days of launch. That was with no SDK and only web apps for a platform. Even then, it was ahead of its time and the web apps were outstanding. A year later, the iP3G was introduced. It only took a weekend to sell a million and the app store was introduced. The 3GS is doing even better. The demand is outpacing supply. There are over 85,000 apps in the app store and it grows more popular by the day. The Pre is not on that kind of trajectory in anyone's wildest dreams.

    As I said, the Pre should not ever have been compared to the iPhone, nor should its app store. That is not to say that it is not good. As I have also said, I believe it compares favorably to other products and services on offer and should be considered in that light.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Does Sprint NAV feel like a web app to you? What about classic?
    You know those two aren't written in javascript, right?
  12. Kedar's Avatar
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    #32  
    I agree. I don't know why you guys are not defending this.
    Some of these useless apps are $.99++ .
    I know I don't have to buy them, but this says something about what Palm wants to be like (Apple App Store)...
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedar View Post
    I agree. I don't know why you guys are not defending this.
    Some of these useless apps are $.99++ .
    I know I don't have to buy them, but this says something about what Palm wants to be like (Apple App Store)...
    I'm not saying there's not some useless apps being made. You're going to have useless apps no matter what programming language is used. But, as a whole, except for certain things (mostly games), Javascript does work well for most applications needed for a mobile phone.

    Palm definitely needs to work on getting more APIs out there. The SDK is still very limited in that aspect, unfortunately. But I disagree entirely that the solution to all their problems is a native SDK.
    Last edited by jhoff80; 10/23/2009 at 06:31 PM.
  14. #34  
    I'm kind of with the OP on this. PALM devices, for a very long time, have have strong applications. This was a huge selling point for many users and one of the best reason to buy a PalmOS device. One would have expected webOS devices not to be any different. Yes, webOS is new and I can see why the number of apps at launch were somewhat limited in number.....but why functionality?

    Given the competition in the smart phone arena, why would PLAM choose to release the webOS SDK with such limited functionality compared to other platforms? It really feels like they made some bad choices or were forced to release the product earlier then expected.

    The comparison with the current iPhone and Android OS are valid. PALM needs to compete with what is available today not how things were 1 or 2 years ago.

    While my Pre is a great looking device there are a hundred ways it's not as capable as my last PALM phone. That is disappointing.

    That said I'm quite sure that the webOS app store, webOS it self and the accompany PALM devices will improve to the point that they will compete very well with current smart phone offerings. It's just frustrating they couldn't have done that out of the box.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    To play devil's advocate on this though, one might also argue that Pre apps look more consistent and professional, since they maintain the same look throughout.
    One could argue this...if they were done by the same developer.

    Since the goal is to have a diverse catalog, the look and feel should reflect that. Nobody wants Microsoft Office to look like Adobe Creative Suite.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Yes, I read your post. I am only dialoguing with you because I believe you are worth dialoguing with. The iPhone sold its first million units in 74 days of launch. That was with no SDK and only web apps for a platform. Even then, it was ahead of its time and the web apps were outstanding. A year later, the iP3G was introduced. It only took a weekend to sell a million and the app store was introduced. The 3GS is doing even better. The demand is outpacing supply. There are over 85,000 apps in the app store and it grows more popular by the day. The Pre is not on that kind of trajectory in anyone's wildest dreams.

    As I said, the Pre should not ever have been compared to the iPhone, nor should its app store. That is not to say that it is not good. As I have also said, I believe it compares favorably to other products and services on offer and should be considered in that light.
    But, here's the thing: I'm not trying to make a marketing comparison between the Pre and the iPhone (or even Android). Rather, I'm simply asking: how does the Pre compare in its capabilities, after five months, with the iPhone (and Android) after their first five months? I submit that the Pre is at least as capable, and more so in many ways, than both. In fact, the Pre is arguably more capable than both even today, in terms of UI and multitasking.

    I'm not arguing that Palm isn't in a pickle when it comes to competing with the other dominant smartphone players. That's true pretty much by definition. But there seem to be a number of folks on this forum who like to attack Palm for being "too slow" to introduce new features and capabilities, when I think that, in fact, Palm is doing a pretty good job in this regard.

    Palm may very well fail. Hell, everyone else may fail compared to Apple's uncanny ability to promote the iPhone and against the cash that Google can throw at Android. I do hope not, because I'm not a fan of either company or platform.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But overall, I think the developers have done ok considering they're being forced to work with with one hand and one foot tied behind their backs.
    So the developers who have said that it's very easy to develop apps for webOS are wrong? The CTO of Pandora has said in an interview that the 1st version of their application only took 3 days for them to create.

    Sure, it can't do 3D games right now, but WebGL will help change that.
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedar View Post
    I agree. I don't know why you guys are not defending this.
    Some of these useless apps are $.99++ .
    I know I don't have to buy them, but this says something about what Palm wants to be like (Apple App Store)...
    Thank you for agreeing with me....sorry if I offended all the ******* too insecure to read a negative post.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    But, here's the thing: I'm not trying to make a marketing comparison between the Pre and the iPhone (or even Android). Rather, I'm simply asking: how does the Pre compare in its capabilities, after five months, with the iPhone (and Android) after their first five months? I submit that the Pre is at least as capable, and more so in many ways, than both. In fact, the Pre is arguably more capable than both even today, in terms of UI and multitasking.

    I'm not arguing that Palm isn't in a pickle when it comes to competing with the other dominant smartphone players. That's true pretty much by definition. But there seem to be a number of folks on this forum who like to attack Palm for being "too slow" to introduce new features and capabilities, when I think that, in fact, Palm is doing a pretty good job in this regard.
    Part of the problem is that a lot of issues don't have to do with Palm introducing "new" features and capabilities, but rather shipping with the basics so very crippled. I got tired of waiting for them to actually finish the OS. Whatever you say about Android or iPhone five months after launch, the apps had menus that made sense and software that actually used the hardware on each device.

    Palm's not even to that point. People keep talking about how WebOS will blossom when it gets to 1.5 or 2.0. They're not at 1.0 yet, really.
  20. OB1kenOB's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    just out of curiosity do people really have that hard of a time figuring out how much to tip that we need 15 tip calculators?
    Let's see an app that can calculate the tip for a waitress that can fart a ringtone!
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