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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by wicketr View Post
    Without going into the details, think of it like this:
    If you were to hop 100ft on one leg vs jogging it on two legs would you be more tired or less tired? And would you get there faster on two legs or one?

    The GPU can do certain tasks much more efficiently than a CPU. And the CPU can do certain tasks more efficiently than a GPU. Having them work hand in hand, as opposed to dumping the full workload on "one leg", would make for a phone that is snappy and smooth.

    The PRE is currently hopping to its End of Life and they need to start using that second leg. We are nearly 6 months into a 2 year life expectancy. That's 25%.

    The "Pre V2" is what we all were expecting and I sadly don't think we are going to get that with this phone before it is EOL.
    You're nuts if you think Palm is going to dump all the money they had to dump into the development of the gpu integration, not to use it. They couldn't afford to do that.
  2. #82  
    GPU unrelated to lag. JavaScript won't use it. Some webKit CSS transition would but they need to be supported first.

    The lag comes from running all apps in a single process. Think Firefox vs Chrome.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    With Google Earth in front, I also see the iPod, Phone, Mail, Safari, Springboard, and DTservices (developer tools) apps running in the background.
    So try this test and see if it works. I'm not 100% positive of the capabilities of the iPhone so this particular test may not work. Go to a website with some type of active content, video stream, etc, and start up that content. Press the center button to "close out" Safari and bring up another app, pretty much any app will do. Now, press the center button to "close out" the other app and go back to Safari. Now answer the following questions;

    1) Are you looking at the page you were on or have you gone back to the home screen, bookmarks, etc, whatever your Safari is set to load on startup?

    2) If you're on the same website has the content continued to play while Safari was in the background or did it start back up at the point where you left off before?

    I truly don't know the answers to these as I don't have access to an iPhone but I would very much like to. Again, the ability to have multiple processes running doesn't necessarily constitute the ability to multitask.

    I'm not an iPhone or Apple hater. In fact, if Sprint carried the iPhone I would most likely have it now as opposed to the Pre. Having said that I'm just as happy with my Pre and, at least right now, wouldn't consider changing it for anything else.
    Terry Rodecker

    Palm Pilot -> Palm V -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> 700wx -> ppc6700 -> BB 8830 -> Pre -> iPhone (company requirement) -> TouchPad
  4. Beefy's Avatar
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       #84  
    As much as I appreciate the iPhone "Multitask or not Multitask?" endless debate, I'd really like to see more discussion on GPU usage/webkit access causing the Pre's launcher to lag less.

    I'm curious because there seems to be division in the thread. Some of you are saying that it's not the GPU not working, it's the webkit access. So which is it? What if both the GPU and webkit transitions were utilized?
  5. jbelew's Avatar
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    #85  
    I hate to break up all the iphone multitask top but anyone interested in the topic of the thread should read this.

    Flash 10 moves to the mobile environment - Mobile Momentum - TI E2E Community (Beta)

    It certainly sounds as if TI is working on this. What do others draw from the link?
    Last edited by jbelew; 10/16/2009 at 10:30 PM. Reason: spelling
  6. s219's Avatar
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by trodecke View Post
    1) Are you looking at the page you were on or have you gone back to the home screen, bookmarks, etc, whatever your Safari is set to load on startup?
    You can have up to 8 different web pages going, and they will be there if you switch to another app and go back to Safari later on. On my 3GS, these seem to stay live almost all the time. On my older iPhone (with half the memory), it would occasionally suspend (pause) some of the pages if I had all 8 slots going, but with just 2-3 they'd stay live most of the time. Either way, you always go back and see the page you were on before.

    2) If you're on the same website has the content continued to play while Safari was in the background or did it start back up at the point where you left off before?.
    I've seen it do both; I can't say I know how it decides to handle each page. For instance, here's an example of streaming radio through Safari while it's in the background: iPhone 3.0 - Background-Safari. Yet, I have a weather web app, and somehow Safari knows to pause radar animations when I switch to another web app or switch out of Safari.
  7. #87  
    i hate when people say that the pre has only been out 5 months so we can't be mad if the processor is underlcocked or gpu not used....in 7 months many of us can get a new phone from sprint...so if they don't do it soon, many people with a pre won't even experience its potential. and to be honest, they way it is now is quite a turn off. with pre's terrible implementation of "synergy," i'd consider a 2.0 andriod come next june if webos doesn't get some decent upgrading.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    YI've seen it do both; I can't say I know how it decides to handle each page. For instance, here's an example of streaming radio through Safari while it's in the background: iPhone 3.0 - Background-Safari. Yet, I have a weather web app, and somehow Safari knows to pause radar animations when I switch to another web app or switch out of Safari.
    Thanks. Not that I'm knocking this (I'm not) but I wonder if the audio streaming is using the iPod portion of the phone, which is able to continue to work in the background, and the radar animation is using the regular "GUI" which isn't able to continue in the background?

    Either way the iPhone is a great device and I'm not knocking it. As great as the Pre "multi-tasking" is, the end result is that from the end user point of view it functions very much like a well behaved app that saves it's state before being stopped and restores that state when started up again.
    Terry Rodecker

    Palm Pilot -> Palm V -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> 700wx -> ppc6700 -> BB 8830 -> Pre -> iPhone (company requirement) -> TouchPad
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    What if both the GPU and webkit transitions were utilized?
    Not knowing anything more about programming than I do (I'm a systems engineer by trade), I'd hazard a guess that we'd see an overall smoother interface if the underlying WebOS was optimized and WebGL was folded in. Because the display isn't 3D or rasterized or whatever technique is used to provide a smooth user interface in a GUI (i.e. Windows XP/Vista, Gnome, KDE, etc) then I don't think a driver for the GPU would make that much difference in the day to day use of the phone other than what was mentioned earlier, a somewhat smoother interface. The GPU would come into play for the richer game playing experience or other graphics intensive features/functions that might be coming down the pike.

    Then again, I'm not a programmer so much like Gartner, I could be very wrong.
    Terry Rodecker

    Palm Pilot -> Palm V -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> 700wx -> ppc6700 -> BB 8830 -> Pre -> iPhone (company requirement) -> TouchPad
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbelew View Post
    I hate to break up all the iphone multitask top but anyone interested in the topic of the thread should read this.

    [url= 10 moves to the mobile environment - Mobile Momentum - TI E2E Community (Beta)[/url]

    It certainly sounds as if TI is working on this. What do others draw from the link?
    really promising.

    sounds like they are saying gpu acceleration for the Pre is coming with flash 10.1 sounds like they have deeper access. So a driver will be available.

    pretty cool.
  11. s219's Avatar
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by trodecke View Post
    Thanks. Not that I'm knocking this (I'm not) but I wonder if the audio streaming is using the iPod portion of the phone, which is able to continue to work in the background, and the radar animation is using the regular "GUI" which isn't able to continue in the background?
    Streaming audio uses the quicktime plugin within Safari. The weather app (which I wrote) is straight html/css/javascript and can only exist as a web app (it also happens to work on the Pre too).
  12. s219's Avatar
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    As much as I appreciate the iPhone "Multitask or not Multitask?" endless debate, I'd really like to see more discussion on GPU usage/webkit access causing the Pre's launcher to lag less.

    I'm curious because there seems to be division in the thread. Some of you are saying that it's not the GPU not working, it's the webkit access. So which is it? What if both the GPU and webkit transitions were utilized?
    webkit transitions would probably be faster than using raw javascript for animations/etc. So it would be a step up from the current approach but not necessarily at the level of OpenGL/GPU. In terms of orders of magnitude, software rendering is a 1-10 whereas GPU rendering is a 100-1000.
  13. s219's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbelew View Post
    I hate to break up all the iphone multitask top but anyone interested in the topic of the thread should read this.

    Flash 10 moves to the mobile environment - Mobile Momentum - TI E2E Community (Beta)

    It certainly sounds as if TI is working on this. What do others draw from the link?
    To paraphrase The Dude, "That's ****in interesting". It indeed sounds like some sort of GPU driver/access, at least for Flash. I still believe general usage of the GPU in webOS via javascript will be dependent on webGL.
  14. UF15's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmart603 View Post
    i hate when people say that the pre has only been out 5 months so we can't be mad if the processor is underlcocked or gpu not used....in 7 months many of us can get a new phone from sprint...so if they don't do it soon, many people with a pre won't even experience its potential. and to be honest, they way it is now is quite a turn off. with pre's terrible implementation of "synergy," i'd consider a 2.0 andriod come next june if webos doesn't get some decent upgrading.
    But . . . but . . . the iPhone didn't have any apps available when it first came out . . . back in 2007.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmart603 View Post
    i hate when people say that the pre has only been out 5 months so we can't be mad if the processor is underlcocked or gpu not used....in 7 months many of us can get a new phone from sprint...so if they don't do it soon, many people with a pre won't even experience its potential. and to be honest, they way it is now is quite a turn off. with pre's terrible implementation of "synergy," i'd consider a 2.0 andriod come next june if webos doesn't get some decent upgrading.
    As much as I have loved Palm over the years, one thing I have come to accept is that Palm never puts significant effort into perfecting the OS after it is released. webOS is what it is, warts and all. Expecting Palm to rewrite webOS is unfortunately a big gamble IMO. This thread has more or less convinced me to go with Android for now and revisit webOS in 2 years. I hope it lives that long.
    Powered by Palm since 1996...
    Palm Pilot > Palm V > Tungsten T > Trēo 650 > Centro > Prē > Prē F102

    ...gave up and switched to iPhone4 7/15/10
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    But . . . but . . . the iPhone didn't have any apps available when it first came out . . . back in 2007.
    I think the relevant tidbit to this particular thread is that the iPhone did have GPU support and extensive use of OpenGL when it was launched, which really makes a difference in the smoothness and usability of the interface.

    To me, there are two tiers of the GPU issue. One is smoothness, performance, and battery life that ties to fundamental usability of the device. The second tier is capability for apps and games. I think everyone can benefit from the first one; the second matters most to people who want good software on the platform.
  17. UF15's Avatar
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    #97  
    I actually think it is nearly inexcusable that WebOS doesn't utilize available GPU to make navigation an elegant experience. Palm did it the easy and quick way because they lacked the resources to do it the right way in time.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    I actually think it is nearly inexcusable that WebOS doesn't utilize available GPU to make navigation an elegant experience. Palm did it the easy and quick way because they lacked the resources to do it the right way in time.


    You kind of contradicted yourself there. You said it's inexcusable, and yet you gave the exact reason as to why. I guess you're right though, it's not an excuse, it's a reason.
  19. UF15's Avatar
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    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    You kind of contradicted yourself there. You said it's inexcusable, and yet you gave the exact reason as to why. I guess you're right though, it's not an excuse, it's a reason.
    I guess the real solution would have been for them to release the product when it was more refined, which they clearly didn't do. We got very beta software that might not be using built-in hardware for a year, if ever.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    I guess the real solution would have been for them to release the product when it was more refined, which they clearly didn't do. We got very beta software that might not be using built-in hardware for a year, if ever.
    don't you think they would have if they could?
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