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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by fid View Post
    You're right but the fact is iPhone can and the Pre can't (for people looking for absolutes). They don't care about CDMA and GSM. They only know that they are able to lookup showtimes for their favorite movie while talking on the phone.
    No, thats not correct, the Pre can, if you buy a gsm pre, if you buy a cdma pre it cannot.

    since there is a gsm pre available to tens of millions of people on several continents it is foolish to assume all pre's are CDMA.
    There are four lights.
  2. #62  
    yep... when you are on a call you can run other apps not just maps... i occasionally web browse looking for locations on the road or maps while on my 3gs for either myself or sometimes friends that call that can't and it comes in handy.

    i couldnt do it with my 2g because of similiar limitation with edge. that really sucked when you really needed it like a person calling lost and need directions and you have to call them back because you can't browse and talk at the same time.

    just for fun i just got on a call and while talking on speaker i can pull up my quickoffice app to pull of office files and even brought up farm frenzy and played while talking. and the phone ran a full speed and not a hint of bog or hesitation.

    and like mentioning before, it's nice how developers can suspend some apps like farm frenzy... you don't wanna go to another card and let you farm go unattended... those darn bears will eat all your livestock if you dont cage them!!

    so they allow some multitasking... under their conditions... but when seeing how they limit it... you can tell they have thought out why for now because important to them is that it's a phone first and gotta be able to handle the calls.

    I dont doubt they will open it up more when they feel it can be properly managed.

    Quote Originally Posted by fid View Post
    You're right but the fact is iPhone can and the Pre can't (for people looking for absolutes). They don't care about CDMA and GSM. They only know that they are able to lookup showtimes for their favorite movie while talking on the phone.
  3. #63  
    My winmo multitasked also,but it's not even close to the same as the pre's multitasking.Just like Iphone's apparent ability to technically run multiple tasks in hte background,just doesn't compare to the pre's ability to do it in the foreground.There is plain and simply no comparison between them.Now if they could speed the pre up,it would be an awesome device.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by fid View Post
    You're right but the fact is iPhone can and the Pre can't (for people looking for absolutes). They don't care about CDMA and GSM. They only know that they are able to lookup showtimes for their favorite movie while talking on the phone.
    And, for people looking for absolutes, it doesn't matter to the user if the iPhone is actually running multiple process at the same time if it doesn't feel like it. Having to press that button and "close" an app and then finding the button to "open" another one doesn't feel like multitasking even if you can prove that it technically is.

    I'm sure they'll have that fixed at some point, but for now that's really weak. I was trying to help my son get his iPod Touch set up just last night (it refuses to run ANY downloaded apps) and, other than the speed, it's a primitive and frustrating experience after using a Pre.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    No, thats not correct, the Pre can, if you buy a gsm pre, if you buy a cdma pre it cannot.

    since there is a gsm pre available to tens of millions of people on several continents it is foolish to assume all pre's are CDMA.
    an aside- My cdma Pre IS able to do that... when I am around WiFi..
  6. fid
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    No, thats not correct, the Pre can, if you buy a gsm pre, if you buy a cdma pre it cannot.

    since there is a gsm pre available to tens of millions of people on several continents it is foolish to assume all pre's are CDMA.
    When 'tens of millions of people' become a market, come back and we'll talk. The fact is 90% of Palms market will always be the US. It's foolish to think that a few thousand european sales are going to make the company sink or swim.

    In the US, the Pre isn't on another carrier and the iPhone isn't as well. If and when don't matter to people purchasing today, tomorrow and this Christmas.



    9 months to integrate WebGL is what RIM has also suggested for their products. Also, WebGL is not a panacea. Driving a graphics processor hard affects battery life. You can bet this will have to be addressed as well.
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    #67  
    I assume that the battery will drain that much faster when they make the phone faster. Perhaps palm could have a battery saver mode and a turbo mode that the users can toggle.
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by navinag View Post
    I assume that the battery will drain that much faster when they make the phone faster. Perhaps palm could have a battery saver mode and a turbo mode that the users can toggle.
    na, it's all about optimization.

    Look at webos 1.1 vs. 1.2.. 1.2 smokes 1.1.. and saves battery life.
    -mark
  9. strudel's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by fid View Post
    I disagree. There are very few scenarios where multitasking would be more helpful on the iPhone (more than Apple already supports). Message notification (and eventually background processing) will handle most problems better. Do you want AIM loaded all the time (even when you are not using it?) or just on demand.
    I take it you never use turn-by-turn gps, Pandora/shoutcast/slacker radio, or any other application that needs to run all the time that is not created by Apple? What if you are listening to Pandora and a text message comes in that you want to respond to right away? You have to quit Pandora. What if you hear a song you like on Pandora and want to buy it? You have to quit Pandora. What if you want to listen to Shoutcast while getting directions via your favorite GPS app? Good luck with that. I know there are alot more these two categories of apps that would greatly benefit from multitasking.

    I'm not trying to start an argument but one of the most popular apps in the app store (Pandora) and one of the most useful categories of apps (turn-by-turn gps) is crippled because you can't do anything else while using them.
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by navinag View Post
    I assume that the battery will drain that much faster when they make the phone faster. Perhaps palm could have a battery saver mode and a turbo mode that the users can toggle.
    What about Palm working with Seidio to get a 2600AmH battery with Touchstone cover? Wouldn't that solve some of the battery issues?
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    Ugh. 9 months for that?
    You can look at the webGL project timeline for more details. Mid-2010 is their proposed release with semi-finalized specs. That would be about the time other companies start integrating it into their software products. Hopefully, Palm will be doing the required homework (GPU driver) long before then.
  12. s219's Avatar
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by fid View Post
    Also, WebGL is not a panacea. Driving a graphics processor hard affects battery life. You can bet this will have to be addressed as well.
    I'd be willing to bet that battery life will improve over the current level of performance with today's render workload, just because they are offloading all the rendering from the CPU, which is not efficient at that sort of thing. So if you look at current basic rendering tasks that are hammering the CPU, they will most surely run more efficiently (= less power per task) on the GPU.

    All bets are off, however, for a 3D game that potentially takes us to a whole new level of rendering. The GPU will still be more efficient at it than the CPU would be, but the net result will probably be more power consumption than what we're used to right now with tinker-toy apps and games.
  13. ksom's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by strudel View Post
    I take it you never use turn-by-turn gps, Pandora/shoutcast/slacker radio, or any other application that needs to run all the time that is not created by Apple? What if you are listening to Pandora and a text message comes in that you want to respond to right away? You have to quit Pandora. What if you hear a song you like on Pandora and want to buy it? You have to quit Pandora. What if you want to listen to Shoutcast while getting directions via your favorite GPS app? Good luck with that. I know there are alot more these two categories of apps that would greatly benefit from multitasking.

    I'm not trying to start an argument but one of the most popular apps in the app store (Pandora) and one of the most useful categories of apps (turn-by-turn gps) is crippled because you can't do anything else while using them.
    Part of taking advantage of multi-tasking is to get a feeling of which apps takes a lot of resource and should be avoid running all with other apps. One thing I noticed is that Web browser can slow down Pre very quickly if you are looking at a full webpage (non-mobile version). So during work, I just keep Email, Calendar, Task and maybe Pandora open all the time. Switching between them is pretty smooth. Even with Pandora on, I can still get emails pretty easily on Evdo. You don't know what you miss unless you try it.

    I still uses my wife's iPhone from time to time. It is a 3G, not 3Gs. There are definitely more button pushing to move between tasks on an iPhone. Do it once or twice is not a big deal, but if I had to check my email and calendar frequently, it would be irritating. On a 3Gs, it is probably better, because it is faster to open a program, but I can't imagine it can be better than a single gesture to switch to a different program.

    I think iPhone still does better is smoothness of some of the GUI motions, even on 3G. I can only imagine 3Gs is even better. In that case, GPU would help a lot for Pre.
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by fid View Post
    You're right but the fact is iPhone can and the Pre can't (for people looking for absolutes). They don't care about CDMA and GSM. They only know that they are able to lookup showtimes for their favorite movie while talking on the phone.
    The Pre can take a call and surf the web! *cough* WiFi *cough*
  15. #75  
    Very interesting article...

    http://www.precentral.net/bad-news-o...-webos-delayed

    The one sentence is interesting....

    "coordination with Palm on a potentially-necessary ROM update for WebOS may hold up the whole shebang."

    So this is not a normal update or even 1.3 where memory error is suppose to be fixed... this sounds like it's going to be a 2.0 type change but even then a type that would make cripple current apps without a major change in programming. likely with new SDK with GPU access?

    I had thought that the missing big apps/big developers when paid apps became available was not a big deal cause they were saving them for the big launch. But I wonder if developers they consider big and special have also been notified of the major change and will hold until then to save wasting time in developing under the old SDK.

    Early 2010.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    Very interesting article...

    http://www.precentral.net/bad-news-o...-webos-delayed

    The one sentence is interesting....

    "coordination with Palm on a potentially-necessary ROM update for WebOS may hold up the whole shebang."

    So this is not a normal update or even 1.3 where memory error is suppose to be fixed... this sounds like it's going to be a 2.0 type change but even then a type that would make cripple current apps without a major change in programming. likely with new SDK with GPU access?

    I had thought that the missing big apps/big developers when paid apps became available was not a big deal cause they were saving them for the big launch. But I wonder if developers they consider big and special have also been notified of the major change and will hold until then to save wasting time in developing under the old SDK.

    Early 2010.
    I doubt an SDK update would cripple old apps, as they are based on standard web languages, so they should go unaffected.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    Very interesting article...

    http://www.precentral.net/bad-news-o...-webos-delayed

    The one sentence is interesting....

    "coordination with Palm on a potentially-necessary ROM update for WebOS may hold up the whole shebang."

    So this is not a normal update or even 1.3 where memory error is suppose to be fixed... this sounds like it's going to be a 2.0 type change but even then a type that would make cripple current apps without a major change in programming. likely with new SDK with GPU access?

    I had thought that the missing big apps/big developers when paid apps became available was not a big deal cause they were saving them for the big launch. But I wonder if developers they consider big and special have also been notified of the major change and will hold until then to save wasting time in developing under the old SDK.

    Early 2010.
    DocumentsToGo is likely to be a native binary application like Doc View. MontionApps had to wait until webOS 1.2 before they could get HotSync to work, so its likely a similar situation with DataViz.

    I've had a suspicion for awhile now, that DataViz and MotionApps are playing guinea-pigs to Palm's native SDK. GPU access is still likely a little whiles away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  18. Beefy's Avatar
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       #78  
    Has anyone else had any experience applying the patches mark mentioned with regard to how they handle the Pre's GUI? I'm really interested if lowering the /tmp allocation even further will help.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    A CDMA iPhone couldn't do this. Only GSM phones can, that is a limitation CDMA, not phones like the Pre.
    The pre can do it if its connected to wifi while on a call.
  20. wicketr's Avatar
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by navinag View Post
    I assume that the battery will drain that much faster when they make the phone faster. Perhaps palm could have a battery saver mode and a turbo mode that the users can toggle.
    Without going into the details, think of it like this:
    If you were to hop 100ft on one leg vs jogging it on two legs would you be more tired or less tired? And would you get there faster on two legs or one?

    The GPU can do certain tasks much more efficiently than a CPU. And the CPU can do certain tasks more efficiently than a GPU. Having them work hand in hand, as opposed to dumping the full workload on "one leg", would make for a phone that is snappy and smooth.

    The PRE is currently hopping to its End of Life and they need to start using that second leg. We are nearly 6 months into a 2 year life expectancy. That's 25%.

    The "Pre V2" is what we all were expecting and I sadly don't think we are going to get that with this phone before it is EOL.
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