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  1. gbp
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    #81  
    Wow, my wife is exactly the same.
    Her old HTC Touch ( the original) was dying quick. The screen won't work on some areas.
    She liked the Pre.

    I "influenced" her to buy Hero.

    Played with it the whole night after everyone ( kids and the wife) were asleep .

    True to what cardfan said ,I sold her on the video recording feature
  2. gbp
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    #82  
    not to mention , there is a voice activated google search on that.

    But I am staying now, probably long till we see a better and bigger capacity Pre. ( or Pixie).
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    While I agree with mikah on the build quality of Pre is worse than iPhone, it still holds its own.
    Like I said earlier, perception it a b*tch.

    My son plays hockey and I have a neighbor who designs hockey sticks for a living. As a result, we've got a wall full of expensive carbon fibre sticks in the garage, along with a couple wood sticks and others that I actually paid for. If you hold a CF stick in one hand, and a wood stick in other with your eyes closed, one will feel "cheaper" than the other, and it's not the one that actually is.

    Not that that accounts for everything, but if the Pre was made of CF instead of plastic perceptions would be different.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Like I said earlier, perception it a b*tch.

    My son plays hockey and I have a neighbor who designs hockey sticks for a living. As a result, we've got a wall full of expensive carbon fibre sticks in the garage, along with a couple wood sticks and others that I actually paid for. If you hold a CF stick in one hand, and a wood stick in other with your eyes closed, one will feel "cheaper" than the other, and it's not the one that actually is.

    Not that that accounts for everything, but if the Pre was made of CF instead of plastic perceptions would be different.
    That'd be kinda badass actually, I'd love to have a carbon fiber Pre
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Like I said earlier, perception it a b*tch.

    My son plays hockey and I have a neighbor who designs hockey sticks for a living. As a result, we've got a wall full of expensive carbon fibre sticks in the garage, along with a couple wood sticks and others that I actually paid for. If you hold a CF stick in one hand, and a wood stick in other with your eyes closed, one will feel "cheaper" than the other, and it's not the one that actually is.

    Not that that accounts for everything, but if the Pre was made of CF instead of plastic perceptions would be different.
    I have to agree, the cheap plastic the pre was built with is pretty lame. Even putting the Touchstone back cover makes the pre feel so much better. I don't konw how palm chose to go with the ****tiest material out there.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkotoric1 View Post
    I have to agree, the cheap plastic the pre was built with is pretty lame. Even putting the Touchstone back cover makes the pre feel so much better. I don't konw how palm chose to go with the ****tiest material out there.
    I'm confused, what makes it any worse than the plastic used on every single Blackberry? Or the entire back of an iPhone? I really don't understand, are there different grades of plastic I'm not aware of? Is one more luxurious than the other? I really don't get it.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You know what "myopic" means, right?
    So, you asked him a question, asked him to "be honest", and then when he gave an answer you apparently didn't like, you imply he's myopic.

    Personally, I know a higher percentage of people (in person, the forums don't count, since I don't go to iPhone forums) with problems with their iPhones than with Pres. And yes, before you ask, I personally know about a dozen folks with Pres, none of which have been returned. Similar to a previous post, about half the people I know with iPhones have cracked screens. Almost everyone I know that had the early iPod had battery problems that it more sensible to upgrade than to repair. So, on a "reputation" basis, in my limited circle, the Pre would have won hands down.

    I didn't base my buying decision on that though, because I bought my Pre the same day (or earlier) than anyone else I know. However, I still woldn't have based it on that, because I know that it's skewed information. The cracked screen iPhone owners have had theirs for many months. The iPod battery problem was a 1st gen issue, and (from what I hear) has been resolved.

    One thing I learned in statistical methods is that you can take limited information, and turn it to mean just about any side of an issue you desire. I believe that's exactly what you are doing. Apple's "reputation" is no more stellar than Palm's.

    So, does that view also make me myopic? I suspect that "your" answer was the only acceptable one.

    I also think possibly you have some "discussion skills" to refine.

    ===
    Edit, I said about half the iPhone owners had cracked screens. I meant screens or cases.
    Last edited by hparsons; 10/13/2009 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Not screens, screens and cases
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkotoric1 View Post
    I have to agree, the cheap plastic the pre was built with is pretty lame. Even putting the Touchstone back cover makes the pre feel so much better. I don't konw how palm chose to go with the ****tiest material out there.
    I don't agree that it's "cheap" plastic, but it's all tradeoffs. There's expense and durablility to think about. If you've actually dropped your Pre (mine has bounced off my driveway) you'll find that it holds up pretty well.

    Going back to the hockey sticks, there is a huge pile of CF sticks in the corner of our garage that either snapped or the blades are worn so thin that they're useless. Watch an NHL game and you'll see how often they break, yet the players keep asking for them to be made lighter and lighter. And it's mostly just for bragging rights (not according to me - coming from my friend who makes them).

    There's just a lot to consider in material choices that people don't think about. Plastic is popular for a reason.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nice try, but no. Not only did I NOT say he was "wrong", but I specifically said whatever he chooses to believe, roll with that.
    ...
    The sarcasm was pretty evident, and proven out when in your next post you asked:
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm going to conclude my angle in this particular discussion by simply asking which device's reputation for build quality would rather have: The iPhone or the Palm Pre?

    Be honest.
    Making it pretty clear you weren't just willing to "let him roll with it" (I'll also take the liberty of pointing out, you didn't really "conclude" your angle with that post...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But it's the very definition of myopic to say "Well, I don't care about the reputation said device because my experience with it is dandy. So there."
    Except he didn't say that. He pretty clearly impled that by making his choice, he was demonstrating that he trusted Palm's reputation, not that he was buying in spite of it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    I own the Pre don't I? I'm not looking to get rid of it, am I? I have no doubts this phone will last me through until I qualify for my next upgrade.
    Nothing in there about a lack of quality or a poor reputation. So, even though your definition of "myopic" is wrong, it still doesn't fit what he said.

    I'm thinking the joking assesment of your meaning for myopic was probably spot-on.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Palm Pre having a reputation for crappy build quality repels customers. Less customers means less critical mass and less money for Palm. Less money for Palm means strained resources continue as they try to compete with giants in this marketplace on a hope and a prayer financially. Less critical mass means less imperative for big names to get on board with apps and less imperative for other carriers to bring WebOS devices on board and showcase them.

    These things are as bad for a Pre user (and Palm) as any given screen crack.
    Except that the negative reputation really doesn't exist. There are a few (very few) vocal complainers on here, but overall, the Pre does not have a largely negative reputation.

    Both companies have had QC issues (Apple's failed hard drives, exploding batteries, and I still see lots of cracked screens), but neither company is particularly "known" for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But I'm sure you gave this all lots of thought before butting into a conversation that didn't concern you.
    On an open forum, there's no such thing as "butting into a converation that didn't concern you". You want a private conversation, the forum has that ability. You post it publicly, you're open game.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So, you asked him a question, asked him to "be honest", and then when he gave an answer you apparently didn't like, you imply he's myopic.

    Personally, I know a higher percentage of people (in person, the forums don't count, since I don't go to iPhone forums) with problems with their iPhones than with Pres. And yes, before you ask, I personally know about a dozen folks with Pres, none of which have been returned. Similar to a previous post, about half the people I know with iPhones have cracked screens. Almost everyone I know that had the early iPod had battery problems that it more sensible to upgrade than to repair. So, on a "reputation" basis, in my limited circle, the Pre would have won hands down.

    I didn't base my buying decision on that though, because I bought my Pre the same day (or earlier) than anyone else I know. However, I still woldn't have based it on that, because I know that it's skewed information. The cracked screen iPhone owners have had theirs for many months. The iPod battery problem was a 1st gen issue, and (from what I hear) has been resolved.

    One thing I learned in statistical methods is that you can take limited information, and turn it to mean just about any side of an issue you desire. I believe that's exactly what you are doing. Apple's "reputation" is no more stellar than Palm's.

    So, does that view also make me myopic? I suspect that "your" answer was the only acceptable one.

    I also think possibly you have some "discussion skills" to refine.
    Nothing like pouring gasoline on a small flame that's already been extinguished, eh? Quite timely.

    Something being myopic has nothing to do with me liking his answer or not. The point is that regardless of his experience being great or being bad, if the Pre has a reputation for bad build quality (It does. Period.), then it is harmful to all Pre owners in the long run, moreso than personally suffering a screen crack or other physical flaw would be. That's not an opinion. What goes among you or your friends or any given group or people you or I know is irrelevant.

    To not see that longview is the very definition of myopic. I didn't imply it. I said it quite explicitly.

    Also, the notion that Palm and Apple have equal reputations is demonstrably wrong. Pre finished well behind iPhone 3GS in a recent customer satisfaction survey. And the ultimate vote of confidence - Sales - is even more lopsided.

    Apple's reputation is considerably "more stellar" than Palm's. Same goes for the 3GS vs. the Pre. Again, not an opinion.
  11. gbp
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    #91  
    Yup , the build quality of most of the APPLE products is generally good.
    Personally I am shocked to see this whole thing happened under Jon Ruby. I thought he knew enough about the materials since he worked under Jobs for a long time.

    May be hiring Jon Ive would fix some of these problems.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    I think there strategy was to have the Pixi be the "Centro". I don't think they envisioned having to discount the Pre as quickly and as far as they had to, so you are sort of right that it does not matter as much anymore.
    ...
    I was going to ignore the price point issue, but feel compelled to interject now. I know that many on here won't understand this, but as someone who was in the retail business for a number of years (including owning a computer store), I can assure you that in the buyer's "mind's eye", there is a vast difference between $149 and $99, and it's not a $50 difference, in spite of the math. It's the difference between a device that's "under $100", and one that's over it. I can just about guarantee you many people looking at those prices would walk away with the impression that the Pre is about double the price of the Pixi.

    It's much like those that will lust after Sprint's new pricing structure, but refuse to pay their ETF from another company because of the "wasted money". I know it's cynical, but mfgs and sellers understand the general public's "math skills".

    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    In light of increased competition (from new phones), I see all of Palms most most important next steps revolving around better software:

    1) Fix the app catalog limit issue in a WebOS 1.2.2 point release.
    2) Get at least 2 or more "compelling" (partner) apps ASAP.
    3) Allow digitally signed native applications to be launched on the device.
    4) Get the app store out of beta.
    5) Provide richer services in the SDK (which will allow for better apps across the board).

    I think 1 and 3 above are critical, that 2 and 4 are necessary for customer perception, and that 3 and 5 are necessary for developers to invest more time on this platform.
    The rest of this, I believe, are as about as concise and accurate assessment as I've seen on here, and I agree 100%.
  13. gbp
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    #93  
    But I have to say my Pre was dropped twice but no crack or break. I get mad when I see the back cover. the thing looks like ready to crack anytime.
  14. #94  
    hparsons, I just don't have the energy. How about we ignore each other going forward? Well, I hope it's cool with you, at least...you're now the sole member of my Ignore List anyway.

    It's been real.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post

    Also, the notion that Palm and Apple have equal reputations is demonstrably wrong. Pre finished well behind iPhone 3GS in a recent customer satisfaction survey. And the ultimate vote of confidence - Sales - is even more lopsided.

    Apple's reputation is considerably "more stellar" than Palm's. Same goes for the 3GS vs. the Pre. Again, not an opinion.
    But, once again, perception isn't always reality. My little sister has loved everything Apple for years and actually sent me a text a few weeks back about how disturbed she was that she was walking through the mall and somebody from Palm had the nerve to try and come up and show her a Pre. Her words, not mine. She comes to the house and refuses to even LOOK at either Pre in the household. There's nothing Palm will ever do to change her perception, and nothing that Apple ever does that she will criticize. She may be a little extreme, but not completely abnormal when it comes to the iPhone.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    I don't agree that it's "cheap" plastic, but it's all tradeoffs. There's expense and durablility to think about. If you've actually dropped your Pre (mine has bounced off my driveway) you'll find that it holds up pretty well.

    Going back to the hockey sticks, there is a huge pile of CF sticks in the corner of our garage that either snapped or the blades are worn so thin that they're useless. Watch an NHL game and you'll see how often they break, yet the players keep asking for them to be made lighter and lighter. And it's mostly just for bragging rights (not according to me - coming from my friend who makes them).

    There's just a lot to consider in material choices that people don't think about. Plastic is popular for a reason.
    When I bought my Pre (it was the first one I actually got to "touch"), my first impression (about touch) was "Yuk, why'd they make it so cheap feeling?". Frankly, I've been impressed with the number of people that have said that they've dropped theirs with no problem other than scratches. For many weeks, I was still doubtful.

    I've now dropped mine off a desk onto a hard floor three times. It scratched my screen skin I put on some, but the Pre held up fine.
  17. #97  
    I totally agree about mikah912's and hparsons' (somewhat differing) impressions that the Pre's [edit: "perceived"] quality was/is lower than it actually is. After I got my Pre, I also felt a little afraid that it might break. In reality, it's a pretty tough device. I also loved the comments about how the masses might actually care about different things than we do (like video). While we clearly diverged off the thread topic here (which was maybe a bit lame anyway) I think this has been a good and informative discussion.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  18. #98  
    I've enjoyed it very much as I enjoy much of the discussion here. It's a nice place to be, and I enjoy almost all of the people.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nothing like pouring gasoline on a small flame that's already been extinguished, eh? Quite timely.
    Sorry, but my reply was within three hours of the original. I don't read all the posts, look for replys, then go back and reply to those I feel still need responses. I respond as I read them. 3 hours later is hardly unreasonable. If you don't like refueld flames, don't start the fire to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Something being myopic has nothing to do with me liking his answer or not. The point is that regardless of his experience being great or being bad, if the Pre has a reputation for bad build quality (It does. Period.), then it is harmful to all Pre owners in the long run, moreso than personally suffering a screen crack or other physical flaw would be. That's not an opinion. What goes among you or your friends or any given group or people you or I know is irrelevant.
    See, it's the "period" thing. In your experience, that might be so. Even in your circle it might be. However, your experience is not everyone elses, thus the "period" is inappropriate. You are not the final authority, and has been mentioned, Apple has had a large amount of notoriety on build quality. Not only on this device, but on others.
    The Pre is still largely an unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    To not see that longview is the very definition of myopic. I didn't imply it. I said it quite explicitly.
    Uh, no you didn't, at least not in the part I quoted. Here's what you actually said:
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But it's the very definition of myopic to say "Well, I don't care about the reputation said device because my experience with it is dandy. So there."
    Maybe you should look up "explicitly".

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Also, the notion that Palm and Apple have equal reputations is demonstrably wrong. Pre finished well behind iPhone 3GS in a recent customer satisfaction survey. And the ultimate vote of confidence - Sales - is even more lopsided.
    We were specifically discussing reputation on build, the customer satisfaction survey was about customer satisfaction not build quality. And if sales were the "ultimate vote of confidence", the Ford Pinto/Bobcat would be viewed as a higher quality car than a Ferrari GTS. I think we can both agree that ain't so.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Apple's reputation is considerably "more stellar" than Palm's. Same goes for the 3GS vs. the Pre. Again, not an opinion.
    Actually, that's exactly what that is, an opinion. Even the customer satisfaction survey's are checking opinions.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    hparsons, I just don't have the energy. How about we ignore each other going forward? Well, I hope it's cool with you, at least...you're now the sole member of my Ignore List anyway.

    It's been real.
    Obviously, you're free to ignore whoever you wish, but when I see nonsense spread around, I'll feel free to respond to it.

    Sorry you don't like it, but possibly some future restraint on your part would help?

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