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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    I think it means if somebody doesn't share your views you tell them that they're wrong.
    Nice try, but no. Not only did I NOT say he was "wrong", but I specifically said whatever he chooses to believe, roll with that.

    But it's the very definition of myopic to say "Well, I don't care about the reputation said device because my experience with it is dandy. So there." The Palm Pre having a reputation for crappy build quality repels customers. Less customers means less critical mass and less money for Palm. Less money for Palm means strained resources continue as they try to compete with giants in this marketplace on a hope and a prayer financially. Less critical mass means less imperative for big names to get on board with apps and less imperative for other carriers to bring WebOS devices on board and showcase them.

    These things are as bad for a Pre user (and Palm) as any given screen crack.

    But I'm sure you gave this all lots of thought before butting into a conversation that didn't concern you.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You know what "myopic" means, right?
    Not sure who you are asking this to. I knew it had to do with vision (and wikipedia indicated it means near sighted.

    You seem to be a bit annoyed by.the Pre (and possibly that Palm does not magically fix all known issues according to your timeframe. (Perhaps my read of you is wrong, so please don't be offended by my characterization if I'm off base, but I feel like you've been trolling a bit lately.) I feel Palm is addressing most software issues pretty well (except the app limit which the should have adjusted in 1.2). Nobody has battery problems anymore and the slider oreo is annoying but does not affect functionality. For the point of discussion here, perhaps we can make a parking lot for all of your issues and debate each one to their conclusion. Maybe you can start by clarifying your question about myopia.

    thx - Bob
    Last edited by sudoer; 10/13/2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason: corrected spelling of myopia (was spelled 'mapia')
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nice try, but no. Not only did I NOT say he was "wrong", but I specifically said whatever he chooses to believe, roll with that.

    But it's the very definition of myopic to say "Well, I don't care about the reputation said device because my experience with it is dandy. So there." The Palm Pre having a reputation for crappy build quality repels customers. Less customers means less critical mass and less money for Palm. Less money for Palm means strained resources continue as they try to compete with giants in this marketplace on a hope and a prayer financially. Less critical mass means less imperative for big names to get on board with apps and less imperative for other carriers to bring WebOS devices on board and showcase them.

    These things are as bad for a Pre user (and Palm) as any given screen crack.

    But I'm sure you gave this all lots of thought before butting into a conversation that didn't concern you.
    Does it concern you? Have you had these issues you think are so widespread?
  4. gbp
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Uh, I think any part of the device cracking is bad, but if you choose to believe that these are merely isolated, meaningless incidents....roll with that.
    I follow PALM's stock ( though I don't own it) I haven't seen the news in the mainstream media about the cracked screens and OREO effect ( a term only Precentral Active Members understand).

    I am not sure you agree with me, I believe the forum member's cynic eyes found many issues which are not common with the mainstream customers.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Does it concern you? Have you had these issues you think are so widespread?
    It concerns me simply by virtue of us starting this particular tangent of discussion, but yes, I am on my 3rd and final Pre and I have had some of these issues.

    Again, anecdotal evidence is just that regardless of whose argument it supports, but there is - objectively speaking - a popular, public consensus that the Pre has crappy build quality. Doesn't matter if you acknowledge it or not.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    I agree with all of this except that I think that an affordable Pixi was/is necessary for Palm to get WebOS into as many hands as possible. While I too would prefer a marriage between the Pixi and Pre form factors (Pre guts in a candybar with wifi, or no keyboard and a really good software keyboard), the former of these ideas lacks screen real-estate and the latter is too much like Apple. I think Palm made the right decisions (aside from the little oreo thing).
    Thing is, the current Pre could easily go for 99 or less (and has) by the time the Pixie would come out. So all this affordable talk is sort of out the window. Especially given the premium data plans required.

    The number of users will ramp up as Palm goes to different carriers. It's much better to stay the course and focus on quality than to try to hurry things up by introducing a cheapo plastic wafer phone that's lesser specced for an OS struggling to cope already on the Pre's processor.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ... The Palm Pre having a reputation for crappy build quality repels customers. ...
    You have a point here. I think they addressed many of the issues but peoples' word of mouth experiences count for a lot. The question is whether or not Palm fixed the problems. I believe they are quietly fixing these problems. If they act like the american car makers and keep making you go back to the dealers, people will catch on and start buying "Toyotas". I understand your point now and I agree in principle. Do you still disagree that they are fixing such issues fast enough?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  8. gbp
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm going to conclude my angle in this particular discussion by simply asking which device's reputation for build quality would rather have: The iPhone or the Palm Pre?

    Be honest.
    iPhone build quality is better than Pre.

    At the same time I believe than average iPhone user readily to forgives APPLE for any mishaps, like that exploded battery, cracked screens...

    while the smart Pre users ( there is no such thing called average Pre users ) will beat PALM to death so that PALM can fix these issues.

    We love PALM to succeed , the only way to do is by finding faults with their phones.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    Not sure who you are asking this to. I knew it had to do with vision (and wikipedia indicated it means near sighted.

    You seem to be a bit annoyed by.the Pre (and possibly that Palm does not magically fix all known issues according to your timeframe. (Perhaps my read of you is wrong, so please don't be offended by my characterization if I'm off base, but I feel like you've been trolling a bit lately.)
    No offense taken. I disagree, but I'm also thicker-skinned than some here. I don't see how someone who starts no threads and only contributes to pre-existing discussions is "trolling" simply because I'm not extolling the virtues of the Pre at every twist and turn. I just did a lengthy point-by-point defense of the device against an iPhone enthusiast here six days ago. Was thanked by many.

    You know, garden variety anti-Pre trolling.

    I feel Palm is addressing most software issues pretty well (except the app limit which the should have adjusted in 1.2). Nobody has battery problems anymore and the slider oreo is annoying but does not affect functionality. For the point of discussion here, perhaps we can make a parking lot for all of your issues and debate each one to their conclusion. Maybe you can start by clarifying your question about myopia.

    thx - Bov
    Actually, new threads about the battery appear here regularly and are always met with the "Search the forum topics, willya?!?!?" petulance.

    But I can think of a number of software issues they are not addressing. Too many for this thread.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nice try, but no. Not only did I NOT say he was "wrong", but I specifically said whatever he chooses to believe, roll with that.

    But it's the very definition of myopic to say "Well, I don't care about the reputation said device because my experience with it is dandy. So there." The Palm Pre having a reputation for crappy build quality repels customers. Less customers means less critical mass and less money for Palm. Less money for Palm means strained resources continue as they try to compete with giants in this marketplace on a hope and a prayer financially. Less critical mass means less imperative for big names to get on board with apps and less imperative for other carriers to bring WebOS devices on board and showcase them.

    These things are as bad for a Pre user (and Palm) as any given screen crack.

    But I'm sure you gave this all lots of thought before butting into a conversation that didn't concern you.
    Sheesh, I guess it's your board today then? If you want to have a private conversation you can use a PM or call him on the phone.

    And let's not be coy with what you meant by "roll with that", eh?

    I totally agree with much of what you're saying about Palm, but perception is often not reality, and you can't always overcome perception regardless of what you do.
  11. gbp
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    #71  
    Folks do you think precentral members make up for 10 % of the total Pre customers ?
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Sheesh, I guess it's your board today then? If you want to have a private conversation you can use a PM or call him on the phone.

    And let's not be coy with what you meant by "roll with that", eh?
    Not being coy at all. You're projecting....something. Dunno what.

    How about we call it water under the bridge, and move on to better conversations? Shake (on it. Well, virtual shake....)?
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Thing is, the current Pre could easily go for 99 or less (and has) by the time the Pixie would come out. So all this affordable talk is sort of out the window. Especially given the premium data plans required.
    I think there strategy was to have the Pixi be the "Centro". I don't think they envisioned having to discount the Pre as quickly and as far as they had to, so you are sort of right that it does not matter as much anymore.

    In light of increased competition (from new phones), I see all of Palms most most important next steps revolving around better software:

    1) Fix the app catalog limit issue in a WebOS 1.2.2 point release.
    2) Get at least 2 or more "compelling" (partner) apps ASAP.
    3) Allow digitally signed native applications to be launched on the device.
    4) Get the app store out of beta.
    5) Provide richer services in the SDK (which will allow for better apps across the board).

    I think 1 and 3 above are critical, that 2 and 4 are necessary for customer perception, and that 3 and 5 are necessary for developers to invest more time on this platform.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Folks do you think precentral members make up for 10 % of the total Pre customers ?
    The forum has 66k members, I'd say 10% or less.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Not being coy at all. You're projecting....something. Dunno what.

    How about we call it water under the bridge, and move on to better conversations? Shake (on it. Well, virtual shake....)?
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ... But I can think of a number of software issues they are not addressing. Too many for this thread.
    Funny, it looks like my brain went in the same direction (in my last post before reading this one of yours).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Folks do you think precentral members make up for 10 % of the total Pre customers ?
    Umm...no. LOL

    I think of a mainstream user kinda like my wife and picture many being existing sprint users that probably used centros, instincts, or dumbphones. They don't use forums. They're happy with the browser, camera, sms, and multitouch screen. App catalog probably gets barely used except from time to time but has a few apps like pandora and a game or two. Calendar is probably hardly used. Not much concern about PIMS.

    I would say one thing my wife uses now, and didn't use much on the Centro, is email. She loves the notifications and how its full html.

    To get music synced, she uses itunes sync. Movies or video she's never fooled with and wouldn't know how to format them to be played by a Pre.

    These people are probably ecstatic over the Pre. It really is a big improvement vs those types of phones listed above.

    EDIT: These same ones would be further blown away with quality video/audio recording. This is what i mean by value added update. Palm needs this. What i mean is this. My wife hasn't noticed hardly any significance with 1.1 or 1.2 updates other than "hey, that sounds different"..referring to the notification ding"
    Last edited by cardfan; 10/13/2009 at 01:08 PM.
  18. gbp
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    The forum has 66k members, I'd say 10% or less.
    of which less than 1% participated in that "First Pre" , "second Pre" poll,
    And of that 1 % , of the 66K , 70% are on their first pre.

    I agree with mikah on most things that leads to constructive criticism, but this build quality thing is most exaggerated IMO.

    Why on earth I don't read it in the "Reagular" news about this broken pre thing ?

    Why on earth I don't hear this issue from three of my frequent SPRINT stores ?

    While I agree with mikah on the build quality of Pre is worse than iPhone, it still holds its own.

    Sure I wish the entire plastic casing be taken out and replaced with carbon fiber or liquid metal , or some alloy , but then you got to pay a thousand bucks for that. Not 149.99 and not certainly free.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Umm...no. LOL

    I think of a mainstream user kinda like my wife and picture many being existing sprint users that probably used centros, instincts, or dumbphones. They don't use forums. They're happy with the browser, camera, sms, and multitouch screen. App catalog probably gets barely used except from time to time but has a few apps like pandora and a game or two. Calendar is probably hardly used. Not much concern about PIMS.

    I would say one thing my wife uses now, and didn't use much on the Centro, is email. She loves the notifications and how its full html.

    To get music synced, she uses itunes sync. Movies or video she's never fooled with and wouldn't know how to format them to be played by a Pre.

    These people are probably ecstatic over the Pre. It really is a big improvement vs those types of phones listed above.

    EDIT: These same ones would be further blown away with quality video/audio recording. This is what i mean by value added update. Palm needs this. What i mean is this. My wife hasn't noticed hardly any significance with 1.1 or 1.2 updates other than "hey, that sounds different"..referring to the notification ding"
    My wife is exactly the same. Although she came from a Samsung dumb phone, she does have a BB for work (so has experienced some smartphone features) but absolutely loves her Pre. There are some things she wishes it had (like text forwarding, and last night she mentioned the notification light like on her BB), but these things are all extremely minor issues for her.
  20. gbp
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Umm...no. LOL

    I think of a mainstream user kinda like my wife and picture many being existing sprint users that probably used centros, instincts, or dumbphones. They don't use forums. They're happy with the browser, camera, sms, and multitouch screen. App catalog probably gets barely used except from time to time but has a few apps like pandora and a game or two. Calendar is probably hardly used. Not much concern about PIMS.

    I would say one thing my wife uses now, and didn't use much on the Centro, is email. She loves the notifications and how its full html.

    To get music synced, she uses itunes sync. Movies or video she's never fooled with and wouldn't know how to format them to be played by a Pre.

    These people are probably ecstatic over the Pre. It really is a big improvement vs those types of phones listed above.

    EDIT: These same ones would be further blown away with quality video/audio recording. This is what i mean by value added update. Palm needs this. What i mean is this. My wife hasn't noticed hardly any significance with 1.1 or 1.2 updates other than "hey, that sounds different"..referring to the notification ding"
    The other day I met the "SPRINT LEAD TECHNICIAN " and "Pre Expert" in my local sprint store. She should have been more knowledgeable than the others in the store. She has no clue that you can open links as new card from the browser (after this 1.2 upgrade) and she doesn't knwo you can "select all ", "Copy"...and such.

    And when I showed her the virtual keyboard , I swear the entire sprint staff mobbed me. They "So wanted the keyboard" on their Pre.

    I told them to check out site.

    Leave the build quality alone , this phone is the best one out there.
    PALM and SPRINT are doing the worst possible job in promoting it.

    Yes , adding a video recorder and bumping the memory to 16 Gig is needed ASAP , I mean tomorrow.

    I agree with you , while these are not excitable features for us knowledgeable folks , for mainstream folks its a value addition.

    For the soccer moms, the bachelors, the college students casual video recording comes handy.

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