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  1. #61  
    "the Iphone craps all over the pre."
    Umm..... your obviously not real educated in what makes a great phone. While the Iphone has a little over the Pre, (and that gap is closing with every update and homebrew) the Iphone has issues that are a nobrainer that everyone is aware of.

    I have worked selling for AT&T (Cingular, Cellular One, Comcast Metrophone) since the early 90's. I was also working for a company that sold Sprint when they first hit the market. I have literally owned hundereds of phones in that time, and the Pre is the coolest and most productive I have used.(The Motorola STARtac being the second coolest of all time)

    I am currently an AT&T employee that uses a pre. While the Iphone has its place, I can't get passed its inability to multitask. (Not to mention Steve Jobs is the antichrist) I bought the pre because I can see its future. We will see many apps coming in over the next year or so. The Pre is brand new by technology standards, and is just going to get better. Where the Iphone has pretty much peaked.

    Pete

    Note to Palm ( I would really like to edit word documents and excel sheets
    Last edited by palandri; 10/13/2009 at 01:23 PM.
  2.    #62  
    My point in posting this post is that palm needs to take advantage of the pre's hardware its almost identical as the iphone 3gs. Im not talking about the pre 2
    im talking about things that can be done now or within the months ahead. I just hope that the pre will evolve in to a much better smartphone offering features that will make this phone even more outstanding.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    - a compass for better Google Maps and augmented reality apps
    I agree with your basic premise, but did you know Sprint Nav has a compass? I don't know how it works, and it's certainly not a stand-alone app that'll give you bearing in degrees, but if I put the Pre down on my desk with directions to go somewhere, the cardinal headings change with the phone's orientation on my desk. Point it North, it says N; point it NW, it says NW, etc. Anyway, that works just fine for me when navigating; I never use GMaps.
  4. gbp
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post

    Palm really needs to be looking 1-3 years into the future to compete against the next iPhone.

    My problem with Palm right now is that they are still busy finishing up their 1.0 product.
    Realistically, I think it will be another 4-5 months (or maybe 8-10 months if you count on webGL) before we can declare the Pre and webOS are truly even with the iPhone 2.0 on paper (objectively).

    Then the SDK needs to mature and the app catalog needs to flourish before we can start to work towards the iPhone 3.0.

    Obviously this is a apples to oranges comparison, so I am speaking loosely.

    But if we use objective milestones like webGL, SDK features, app sophistication, number of devices, number of apps, etc, we can make a comparison.
    You and the other APPLE ****** defend everything APPLE. Your posts have objective comparison for the most part , and the other guy, hmm.

    Other than the SDK gaming capability ( which you beat up on every post )
    and build quality , I think the iPhone's UI is not as sophisticated as WebOS.

    Switching between apps and swiping out APPS will be the features of the iPhone 5.0, take my word.

    And coming back to your post , so you think in four months Pre equals iPhone 2.0 ?

    How ?
    PALM should strip the cut and paste, MMS, universal search from Pre to make it equal to iPhone. Not to ignore the multitasking and Synergy.

    Then you will agree that Pre equals iPhone
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Other than the SDK gaming capability ( which you beat up on every post )
    For all that programming potential, I gotta say, judging by what gaming does to my iTouch in terms of battery life (it's rated to 36 hrs for music, but only lasts about an hour with some games), the iPhone isn't an acceptable gaming platform endurance-wise. The iTouch, yes (and just barely); the iPhone, not so much. Of course, I'll say that about the Pre as well since it's comparable to the iPhone as far as battery life.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by pete5174 View Post
    Umm..... your obviously not real educated in what makes a great phone. While the Iphone has a little over the Pre, (and that gap is closing with every update and homebrew) the Iphone has issues that are a nobrainer that everyone is aware of.

    I am currently an AT&T employee that uses a pre. While the Iphone has its place, I can't get passed its inability to multitask. (Not to mention Steve Jobs is the antichrist) I bought the pre because I can see its future. We will see many apps coming in over the next year or so. The Pre is brand new by technology standards, and is just going to get better. Where the Iphone has pretty much peaked.
    iPhone peaked? Hooo-kay.

    By "technology standards", the Pre and iPhone 3GS have nearly identical guts, but only one device actually uses them, and it aint the Pre. Same goes for build quality.

    Meanwhile, multitasking is not only available to iPhone owners via jailbreak, but they can already multitask all the core apps out of the box. Apple will continue to dominate whether they have this advantage officially or not.

    Palm has plenty of potential, but let's not live in a dreamworld about Apple's trajectory.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Palm has plenty of potential, but let's not live in a dreamworld about Apple's trajectory.
    I agree with you again, but let's also not forget about Palm's. It's as silly to say the iPhone is dead, as it is to say it "craps all over the Pre." The Pre is pretty freakin' capable, and is regularly just a couple of points below the iPhone in official comparisons; that's not too shabby for a 1st-gen Pre.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by PookiePrancer View Post
    I agree with you again, but let's also not forget about Palm's. It's as silly to say the iPhone is dead, as it is to say it "craps all over the Pre." The Pre is pretty freakin' capable, and is regularly just a couple of points below the iPhone in official comparisons; that's not too shabby for a 1st-gen Pre.
    No, I don't think it defecates all over the Pre. Different focus for each device.

    The problem is that it's much easier for the competition to copy and better the Pre's advantages (e.g. HTC Hero's version of Synergy is superior to Palm's, and they surpassed inside of six months), than it is for the Pre to do the same (e.g. having WebOS fully integrated with Pre hardware so it's as snappy and responsive as iPhone, getting over 10K apps like Android and iPhone).
  9. #69  
    Yep, no doubt Apple has eyes on the Pre's multitasking & notifications.

    Think ahead to june 2010 and Apple is introducing its coverflow multitasking & better resolution screen along with 64gb option. Over a hundred new features in 4.0..blah blah blah. Over 100k apps.

    Palm? A 16gb Pre 2? Now with video recording? Over 500 apps! Umm..we got flash? Improved battery life to almost last a day now! (turn off flash tho)
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Yep, no doubt Apple has eyes on the Pre's multitasking & notifications.

    Think ahead to june 2010 and Apple is introducing its coverflow multitasking & better resolution screen along with 64gb option. Over a hundred new features in 4.0..blah blah blah. Over 100k apps.

    Palm? A 16gb Pre 2? Now with video recording? Over 500 apps! Umm..we got flash? Improved battery life to almost last a day now! (turn off flash tho)
    Yup. Almost no companies win at the game of "Catch-up." You can only leapfrog Apple. Shooting for their current specs is a fool's game because by the time you get there, they will be long gone.

    Apple gets the latitude to say two years after the fact "Hey, we got video recording. Isn't that awesome?!?!" because:

    A) They're Apple, and they've earned it by building their brand right.
    B) They didn't halfass it, and when they introduced it, they really did it properly in terms of interface and user experience.

    Palm announcing "Hey, we got video recording too!" whenever it arrives will be a whole lotta "Meh". I mean, just look at the camera app. There are few options, and let's not forget the wonderful experience of handing your phone to someone so they can swipe through your album and look at pictures of an event (maybe, your kid's birthday party or a wedding...whatever):

    "So, just swipe through like on your iPhone to see the pictures."
    "Hey, why is this picture so blurry-looking?"
    "Oh...you have to wait for the phone process it. Just wait 3 seconds for every picture swipe to."
    "Really?"
    "........."
  11. #71  
    Apples fooled around with multitasking for a long time as well as other things like Flash.

    Too bad they are not going to be part of the bandwagon when flash 10 rolls out for the other phones (it would be nice to have )...

    But there is a reason they haven't released full multitasking or Flash... because they are not willing to degrade the performance of the unit and they have a habit of being perfectionists when realeasing features. Where other phones would be floored at the idea of Adobe knocking on the door saying we had flash ready for your phone ... YESTERDAY. iPhone feels it better to wait.

    If you for one moment think they can't do multitasking and their sw has peaked... then you don't remember where iPhone OS originates from. I still have my 2G with latest sw for my daughter to play with and it's painful to use even though it's got the latest of features. Not just sluggishness but battery life too.

    The current software with 3GS rocks... they have optimized hardware and software to where it's moving fast and I haven't had to worry about making it over a day with battery.

    For them it comes to hardware and battery technology being ready and I do wonder what 4th gen will bring now that they have answered most peoples wish lists over the years. I suspect that they will go with a multicore processor because the best phones out there will be coming out with them at close to 1 ghz and if they can keep the battery level at current (they tend to get better in newer versions), I wouldnt be surprised to see mulitasking fully enabled as well as possibly being able to handle flash to their liking.

    I'm still looking for front facing camera and at least enable the 720 hd vid capabilities. I guess they will come out with something that will push keep pushing the industry. I think BB said they are coming out of FF camera soon.

    I wouldnt be surprised to see after three years a refreshed UI... especially if they release a tablet there will be cool UI to be transfered over.

    As someone said earlier... Palm can not just go for parity, they have to really get this OS stable and running fast and be able to handle so many more features that will be coming for ALL phones out there. For peat sakes the HERO is a better matchup with iPhone and donut isnt even out for Android but soon. Android is getting it's second wind that Palm so desperately needs.

    I really don't like the direction they are taking with PIXI with a weaker unit.

    I'm looking forward to what the Pre is capable of.


    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Yep, no doubt Apple has eyes on the Pre's multitasking & notifications.
    Last edited by donm527; 10/13/2009 at 11:48 AM.
  12. urkel's Avatar
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    #72  
    I've yet to hear a good explanation for why there is so much anger towards Apple/iPhone. The way some people react then you'd think the iPhone killed their puppy but has anyone ever considered what the industry would look like if Apple didn't give the industry a long overdue kick in the swimsuit area?

    It could be argued that the industry was already evolving, but the iPhone changed a lot of things in favor of the consumer:

    - Pricing. My last flipphone cost $300. Now we're looking at $99/$199 for a smartphone?
    - App Store. Buying apps is ridiculously easy (which is a good and bad thing)
    - App Prices. We used to pay $20-30 an app. Now we pay $1-3
    - Hardware Standards. GPS, WiFi, Touch etc were all around but now they're standard
    - Style. Aesthetics isn't more important than features, but it comes pretty close.
    - Carriers. It used to be carriers controlled (and crippled) the phones. Now it's reversed.

    Even if we pretend our Pre would exist in its current state without the iPhone, it would probably cost $600, lack features and we'd be nickel and dimed to hell by Sprint for all these "Premium" features. But the reason we got todays Pre is directly related to the fact that Palm is playing catchup with Apple.

    So again, why is playing "Follow the Leader" so bad? Apparently it is exactly what is necessary to deliver a better product to the consumer.
  13. s219's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by pete5174 View Post
    am currently an AT&T employee that uses a pre. While the Iphone has its place, I can't get passed its inability to multitask.
    Don't blame the phone for that. If you're in the position to sell the iPhone as an AT&T employee, then you need to educate yourself on how the iPhone OS *does* multi-task. It's one of the biggest myths perpetuated here.

    The iPhone doesn't let third party apps run in the background. And it doesn't let you switch between running apps via cards. But it does multi-task core apps, and in my experience with two iPhones and a Pre, the 3GS can switch between running apps faster when you take productivity into account.
  14. #74  
    Well, someone did mention in this or another post that Steve is the antichrist.

    Pretty good reason to me

    It could have been any other company but it happened to be apple that came out with a phone I have wanted since playing with my Axim... a phone with a Opera like browser and access to email and some tunes with a $20 data plan. If he didnt come along, then Ballmer would still be laughing at mobile computing and we would be stuck with Windows Mobile 5 and a stylus still with no new updates and Blackberry would still be a business only niche with crazy data plan prices.

    Everything that came afterwards was a value-add that made my 2G fun a fresh the whole time I had it. Being an early adopter was not suffering with a extremely buggy phone with hardware issues... Being an early adopter was just having to wait for the next fun thing to arrive and deal with the glitches along the way before they straightened them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    I've yet to hear a good explanation for why there is so much anger towards Apple/iPhone.
  15. cgk
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    #75  
    One thing it's unmatched on in the UK is price. I can't get over how whacked out the pricing is going to be on o2 in the UK - it's going to be 34 plus 96 on a 24 month contract.

    I can get an n900 for free on a 18 month contract with more minutes and for 5 less! It's madness!
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    I've yet to hear a good explanation for why there is so much anger towards Apple/iPhone. The way some people react then you'd think the iPhone killed their puppy but has anyone ever considered what the industry would look like if Apple didn't give the industry a long overdue kick in the swimsuit area?

    It could be argued that the industry was already evolving, but the iPhone changed a lot of things in favor of the consumer:

    - Pricing. My last flipphone cost $300. Now we're looking at $99/$199 for a smartphone?
    - App Store. Buying apps is ridiculously easy (which is a good and bad thing)
    - App Prices. We used to pay $20-30 an app. Now we pay $1-3
    - Hardware Standards. GPS, WiFi, Touch etc were all around but now they're standard
    - Style. Aesthetics isn't more important than features, but it comes pretty close.
    - Carriers. It used to be carriers controlled (and crippled) the phones. Now it's reversed.

    Even if we pretend our Pre would exist in its current state without the iPhone, it would probably cost $600, lack features and we'd be nickel and dimed to hell by Sprint for all these "Premium" features. But the reason we got todays Pre is directly related to the fact that Palm is playing catchup with Apple.

    So again, why is playing "Follow the Leader" so bad? Apparently it is exactly what is necessary to deliver a better product to the consumer.
    I agree. I paid close to $500 for my Treo 650. And that was the discounted contract price!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Yep, no doubt Apple has eyes on the Pre's multitasking & notifications.

    Think ahead to june 2010 and Apple is introducing its coverflow multitasking & better resolution screen along with 64gb option. Over a hundred new features in 4.0..blah blah blah. Over 100k apps.

    Palm? A 16gb Pre 2? Now with video recording? Over 500 apps! Umm..we got flash? Improved battery life to almost last a day now! (turn off flash tho)
    I think you're possibly understimating Pre. Why do you assume that Apple is busy working on leapfrogging their current techology, and at the same time assume that Pre is resting? Don't forget, in December of last year, virtually the entire technology sector had written Palm off. The Pre was a total shock. Why assume there are no more "total shocks" left?
  18. s219's Avatar
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think you're possibly understimating Pre. Why do you assume that Apple is busy working on leapfrogging their current techology, and at the same time assume that Pre is resting? Don't forget, in December of last year, virtually the entire technology sector had written Palm off. The Pre was a total shock. Why assume there are no more "total shocks" left?
    I can answer that. You don't have to assume with Apple, they just do it pretty routinely.

    I think it's fair to say that the Pre and webOS have not reached a solid 1.0 state yet (even if that partial 1.0 is better than some aspects of the iPhone and good enough for many). Just the SDK alone shows they have not reached maturity, and you can see that in the apps too. Never mind performance or optimizations. Relatively speaking, the level of sophistication is not where iPhone was for it's 1.0 release.

    I wouldn't call it a shock, but I will be pleasantly surprised when the Pre/webOS platform hits an honest 1.0 status. I will gladly give Palm credit at that point. But not now.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    I can answer that. You don't have to assume with Apple, they just do it pretty routinely.
    Seriously? Is the current iPhone really that advanced compared to the phone they introduced 3 years ago? After the 3GS was introduced, they spent like a week marketing new features that they provided, then went back to advertising the apps. Creativity from guys like you, not Apple.

    They definitely know how to develop money-making businesses, but all of their creative people are either working at Palm or out drinking beer.
    Last edited by GMoney749; 10/14/2009 at 12:15 AM.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    ...
    - Pricing. My last flipphone cost $300. Now we're looking at $99/$199 for a smartphone?
    - App Store. Buying apps is ridiculously easy (which is a good and bad thing)
    - App Prices. We used to pay $20-30 an app. Now we pay $1-3
    - Hardware Standards. GPS, WiFi, Touch etc were all around but now they're standard
    - Style. Aesthetics isn't more important than features, but it comes pretty close.
    - Carriers. It used to be carriers controlled (and crippled) the phones. Now it's reversed.
    ...
    While I agree that the iPhone bashing is a bit much at times, I disagree with some of your analasys (those that are bolded).
    • Apple didn't break the $99 smartphone barrier, Palm did with the Centro.
    • Apple wasn't the first to put in GPS or WiFi, those became "standard" features largely because many other phones were including them. GPS in particular just made sense on a phone. I'll give you the touch screen, and what a great innovation that was. "Normal" rendered screens on a browser with pinch and zoom is one of the things that I was blown away with on the iPhone. I probably wouldn't have gotten a Pre if it didn't have it.
    • The last one I don't so much disagree as factual, as I do whether or not it's a good thing. The iPhone doesn't really control ATT, Apple does. I don't think that's a good thing. I'll be glad when there are so many different carriers and mfgs for certain features neither the carrier nor the mfg get to control offerings; that it ends up in the hands of the consumer (and at an appropriate price). Tethering is a prime example of what I'm talking about.

    I'm really surprised you didn't have the accelerometer on your list. That was another innovation that the iPhone seems to have made a new standard.
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