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  1. #101  
    I think it's the hardware. If you look in the manual, the Pre is a dual-band UMTS, supporting 900/2100 OR 850/1900, not tri-band as I predicted/thought it was.

    Although there IS a line of hope, it could be firmware only, but don't quote me on this. There's something in the NVRAM values for the UMTS firmware that specifies the operation band.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    I think it's the hardware. If you look in the manual, the Pre is a dual-band UMTS, supporting 900/2100 OR 850/1900, not tri-band as I predicted/thought it was.

    Although there IS a line of hope, it could be firmware only, but don't quote me on this. There's something in the NVRAM values for the UMTS firmware that specifies the operation band.
    Wait, doesnt ATT use 850/1900? Then why doesn't 3g work on an ATT sm card? It's not a hardware issue or ATT users, right?
  3. #103  
    In theory, it should be able to use the AT&T 3G network as the correct frequencies are supported.
    I looked at the com_palm_data_carriernetworksettings_CarrierNetworkSettings table and found two columns that MIGHT be interesting:

    gsmNumSimPDP
    and
    umtsNumSimPDP

    For all the AT&T records in that table the values in those columns are set to "3". Unfortunately I do not know enough about GSM/3G technology to make a reliable statement about any of this but I did a crosscheck with the German networks I know work with 3G and for all of those umtsNumSimPDP is set to "1" (and with one exception this is true for gsmNumSimPDP as well).
    Of course I don't even know if this has anything to do with the lack of §G for AT& but I think it is at the very leat noteworthy and it might be worth a try changing those values to see if it makes any difference.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    I think it's the hardware. If you look in the manual, the Pre is a dual-band UMTS, supporting 900/2100 OR 850/1900, not tri-band as I predicted/thought it was.

    Although there IS a line of hope, it could be firmware only, but don't quote me on this. There's something in the NVRAM values for the UMTS firmware that specifies the operation band.
    Does anyone know if the alternate sets of bands (900/2100 or 850/1900) are on two different hardware versions of the GSM Pre (e.g. a US GSM Pre and an EU/UK/Africa/Asia/Australia GSM Pre), or whether it is selectable on a common single hardware version?

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by spectralfish View Post
    Wait, doesnt ATT use 850/1900? Then why doesn't 3g work on an ATT sm card? It's not a hardware issue or ATT users, right?
    OR as in the usual, either one, not OR as in computer programming.

    It could tip either way. It could be only firmware, but by the sound of things it's hardware. Euro Pre supports 900/2100, US GSM Pre supports 850/1900. If it is, it's very stupid of Palm to do so. Now they have to manage stock for two versions of the GSM Pre.

    I'm hoping it's firmware though. It looks like the Euro units could be sharing the same FCC ID, so the hardware could be the same. Can't imagine why FCC would let them stamp the same ID (O8F-CASG) on two different hardware, or unless later on a new FCC ID shows up.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  6. #106  
    Has anyone thought of trying a TurboSIM in a network locked Pre? It seems to work for iphones on o2, so why not the Pre?
  7. #107  
    I am copying and pasting from another thread but I am thinking my point #1 below might point to the values being wrong in the file you mention as even in a 900/2100 area I cannot get 3G roaming with an AT&T sim in but with vodafone or o2 sim it can.

    Not sure where to post this so I will try here. I just brought a palm pre from o2 unlocked to the US for use on AT&T. I put in my SIM and it worked right out the bat. I also setup my palm profile fine from the US on AT&T for those interested. Internet and MMS (after 1.1.3) work fine. Here is the issue though 3G does not work just edge.

    I have been told the pre has the Qualcomm chipset MSM6260. This chipset supports GSM Quad Band and UMTS Tri Band

    QUALCOMM LAUNCHES MSM6260 MOBILE STATION MODEM CHIPSET. - Free Online Library

    However when I look at

    http://palm.cdnetworks.net/support/d...re_UG_enGB.pdf

    specifications I see

    Dualband WCDMA/HSDPA (850/1900 or 900/2100)

    So I am guessing that the German one has 900/2100... And the AT&T one will have 850/1900. Which is why I can only get edge on AT&T.

    So I am curious if anyone knows if this is a baseband/os issue that can be fixed or is this radio issue (it really only supports those 2 bands only)? hard to tell as I have conflicting info.

    Couple Interesting data points

    1. With an o2 sim in germany 3g worked fine how if I took the sim from my iphone 3g (which was roaming on 3g fine) and put it in it goes to AT&T roaming fine but never gets 3G which is strange as I know a 900/2100 network is there as it found it with the o2 SIM and my iPhone roams to it fine.
    2. If I force it to 3G only it cannot see AT&T anymore...

    It would blow my mind that the palm would ship in europe and be unable to roam in the US on 3G data services (just edge). I guess it might work on T-Mobile but a lot of their network is 1700 which is not supported (some is 1900).

    And if the AT&T one is also dual band as the pdf seems to point at that would be it would not roam on 3G in Europe.

    this seems really strange and dumb.

    Any ideas? The settings all look right in the carrier file.

    thanks for any ideas or any hope ;-)
  8. #108  
    One more data point. I flashed the 1.2.1 sprint Doctor file to my o2 device just hoping that it might change the settings so 3g data would work but it did not (not surprising as it must not touch the baseband or radio firmware as my gsm connection would have broken). I had heard rumors that on 1.3 you will be able to specify things like apn directly, mms server etc. I wonder if you can select bands then too, assuming there really are not two different hardware versions (man that would be dumb).
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Type11 View Post
    I am copying and pasting from another thread but I am thinking my point #1 below might point to the values being wrong in the file you mention as even in a 900/2100 area I cannot get 3G roaming with an AT&T sim in but with vodafone or o2 sim it can.
    As I will be in the US for ~4 weeks in December/January and I will be using an AT&T GoPhone SIM with the soon to be bought Pre (yeah, I know, it is kinda weird I don't have one yet) I would be eternally grateful if you (or someone else with a German Pre and an AT&T SIM) could try out what I suggested in my earlier post:

    In theory, it should be able to use the AT&T 3G network as the correct frequencies are supported.
    I looked at the com_palm_data_carriernetworksettings_CarrierNetworkSettings table and found two columns that MIGHT be interesting:

    gsmNumSimPDP
    and
    umtsNumSimPDP

    For all the AT&T records in that table the values in those columns are set to "3". Unfortunately I do not know enough about GSM/3G technology to make a reliable statement about any of this but I did a crosscheck with the German networks I know work with 3G and for all of those umtsNumSimPDP is set to "1" (and with one exception this is true for gsmNumSimPDP as well).
    Of course I don't even know if this has anything to do with the lack of §G for AT& but I think it is at the very leat noteworthy and it might be worth a try changing those values to see if it makes any difference.
    I know for a fact (from a German user in another forum) that changing the settings in com_palm_data_carriernetworksettings_CarrierNetworkSettings can enable 3G as this is how he got it to work.
    I think messing with the Data (APN) settings might be the wrong approach in this case as you need a 3G network BEFORE you can establish a data connection.
    So, even if the APN settings are 100% correct and the radio supports the correct frequency you might not be able to use 3G id the connection settings are incorrect.
    Again, a German user got 3G to work by changing the connection settings.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Type11 View Post
    It would blow my mind that the palm would ship in europe and be unable to roam in the US on 3G data services (just edge).
    Why would that be so surprising, when the US has chosen to have different 3G bands from everywhere else in the whole world?

    The German Pre should work fine on 3G in Europe, UK, Asia, Japan, Australia, ....

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  11. #111  
    'Unlocked' German Palm Pre Still A Bit Locked
    'Unlocked' German Palm Pre Still A Bit Locked

    f you're like me and trapped in a country where Palm has yet to offer the Pre, then you're no doubt thinking quite intently about purchasing a German GSM unit, which is not SIM-locked as the UK and Irish Pres are. However, there are different kinds of restrictions on the device: first, the network settings are apparently only pre-configured for a smattering of German mobile providers. So while you'll be able to drop in any old SIM card and make voice calls internationally out-of-the-box, you won't be able to use carrier network services like mobile Internet or MMS until Palm or O2 provides an update which allows you to enter such details manually. In the meantime, it looks like we'll be resorting to some light hacking.

    Second, and a little more annoyingly, the device apparently needs to be activated via the O2 network before you can use it. While tools exist that allow you to bypass activation - such as the WebOS Internals Meta-Doctor - savvy buyers may want to ask their importers to activate the device at the O2 store before sending them on.

    Is there somebody that wrote an article with all the steps to disable O2 carrier activation that is needed by Palm PrPrPré $from$ $O2$ $Germany$ $with$ $WebOS$ $Internals$ $Meta$-$Doctor$ ?

    If I buy a Palm PrPrPré $in$ $Germany$ $with$ $WebOS$ $1$.$1$.$3$ $and$ $I$'$m$ $not$ $on$ $the$ $O2$ $network$, $where$ $can$ $I$ $download$ $WebOS$ $update$ $to$ $1$.$2$.$1$ $that$ $works$ $with$ $Palm$ $Pr$é $GSM$ ?

    Thanks.
  12. #112  
    For what it's worth, I got a German Pre and it works as-is on the Base network in Belgium (which is a subsidiary of KPN, I think). In other words, no problems with the data connection.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Type11 View Post
    I am copying and pasting from another thread but I am thinking my point #1 below might point to the values being wrong in the file you mention as even in a 900/2100 area I cannot get 3G roaming with an AT&T sim in but with vodafone or o2 sim it can.

    Not sure where to post this so I will try here. I just brought a palm pre from o2 unlocked to the US for use on AT&T. I put in my SIM and it worked right out the bat. I also setup my palm profile fine from the US on AT&T for those interested. Internet and MMS (after 1.1.3) work fine. Here is the issue though 3G does not work just edge.

    I have been told the pre has the Qualcomm chipset MSM6260. This chipset supports GSM Quad Band and UMTS Tri Band

    QUALCOMM LAUNCHES MSM6260 MOBILE STATION MODEM CHIPSET. - Free Online Library

    However when I look at

    http://palm.cdnetworks.net/support/d...re_UG_enGB.pdf

    specifications I see

    Dualband WCDMA/HSDPA (850/1900 or 900/2100)

    So I am guessing that the German one has 900/2100... And the AT&T one will have 850/1900. Which is why I can only get edge on AT&T.

    So I am curious if anyone knows if this is a baseband/os issue that can be fixed or is this radio issue (it really only supports those 2 bands only)? hard to tell as I have conflicting info.

    Couple Interesting data points

    1. With an o2 sim in germany 3g worked fine how if I took the sim from my iphone 3g (which was roaming on 3g fine) and put it in it goes to AT&T roaming fine but never gets 3G which is strange as I know a 900/2100 network is there as it found it with the o2 SIM and my iPhone roams to it fine.
    2. If I force it to 3G only it cannot see AT&T anymore...

    It would blow my mind that the palm would ship in europe and be unable to roam in the US on 3G data services (just edge). I guess it might work on T-Mobile but a lot of their network is 1700 which is not supported (some is 1900).

    And if the AT&T one is also dual band as the pdf seems to point at that would be it would not roam on 3G in Europe.

    this seems really strange and dumb.

    Any ideas? The settings all look right in the carrier file.

    thanks for any ideas or any hope ;-)
    Qualcomm's UMTS platform consists of 2 chips, the Mobile Station Modem (MSM) and the transceiver (RTR). MSM does the processing at the logical level, RTR at the air level.

    I was the one who made the point about MSM6260 supporting 3 bands. Turns out I made the wrong assumption that Palm will use Qualcomm's reference with a tri-band transceiver like the Treo Pro but used a dual-band one instead. Guess it's a cost thing.

    How the dual band transceiver works is there are two aerials, one for High and one for Low, i.e for 900/2100 or 850/1900. Tri-band transceivers will have two High and one Low, and quad-band will be 2 with muxes for each.

    If you look at the datasheet you'll understand what I mean:
    http://www.datasheetpro.com/node/50289

    I'm still thinking there's a way to select that in the firmware, unless it's a complete different chip, the 900 and 850 versions.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous56 View Post

    Is there somebody that wrote an article with all the steps to disable O2 carrier activation that is needed by Palm PrPrPré $from$ $O2$ $Germany$ $with$ $WebOS$ $Internals$ $Meta$-$Doctor$ ?

    If I buy a Palm PrPrPré $in$ $Germany$ $with$ $WebOS$ $1$.$1$.$3$ $and$ $I$'$m$ $not$ $on$ $the$ $O2$ $network$, $where$ $can$ $I$ $download$ $WebOS$ $update$ $to$ $1$.$2$.$1$ $that$ $works$ $with$ $Palm$ $Pr$é $GSM$ ?

    Thanks.
    http://forums.precentral.net/webos-i...ta-doctor.html
  15. #115  
    yeah that was my thought to that the cost difference would be negligible and it would make sense to standardize the chip on US and EU gsm pre's and there should be a way to switch which dual bands the radio is using though. Also int he future it would not surprise me if it switch the radio for you assuming both really are on the chip.

    rwhitby: I standby the fact that they are selling it as a serious business phone and it should do 3G in the places people travel for work. Yes the US did different bands but every iPhone and google android phone I have seen so far do quad band UTMS, the cost differential could not have been that much.
  16. #116  
    Also I think your are right if the FCC id really is the same both the US and EU version must have the same frequencies they CAN do.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Type11 View Post
    rwhitby: I standby the fact that they are selling it as a serious business phone and it should do 3G in the places people travel for work. Yes the US did different bands but every iPhone and google android phone I have seen so far do quad band UTMS, the cost differential could not have been that much.
    I agree. But you're now talking about a different phone to the Pre. The Pre is dual band UMTS only. That's a fact that won't change no matter how much people don't like it. I'm giving a possible rationale for why the fact is as it is.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by Type11 View Post
    yeah that was my thought to that the cost difference would be negligible and it would make sense to standardize the chip on US and EU gsm pre's and there should be a way to switch which dual bands the radio is using though. Also int he future it would not surprise me if it switch the radio for you assuming both really are on the chip.

    rwhitby: I standby the fact that they are selling it as a serious business phone and it should do 3G in the places people travel for work. Yes the US did different bands but every iPhone and google android phone I have seen so far do quad band UTMS, the cost differential could not have been that much.
    And actually to correct you... the phones you're referring to are actually Tri-Band. iPhone is 850/1900/2100.

    By far the only quad-band UMTS devices I've seen are USB modems.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  19. #119  
    Thanks for the correction, I guess there must be a lot of 2100 then in europe as I almost always get 3g connections on the iPhone. Is 900 used that much?

    So let me rephrase ;-) i can't believe the cost of the a chipset like the MSM6260 could really contribute more to the bottom line than what they used and now makes it hard for international roaming to the country with the largest economy in the world. And before you guys in Europe say it I am not including the EU, I said country ;-)

    I hope there is a way in the firmware to select which two bands each of the low and high are using. Then the whole tri band vs dual band thing would not seem to matter so much as I am guessing most areas have totally one or the other for the major carriers for the most part.

    What might be interesting is t-mob in the US uses 1700/2100 for WCDMA. HAs anyone tried this? I might borrow a sim from a friend and give it a go...
  20. #120  
    It won't work. 1700 is 1700 Uplink, 2100 Downlink. 2100 phones can see the network but not use it.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here

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