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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzchic View Post
    Light to moderate use from yesterday.

    May i ask to know what kind of battery you have. japanese of korean? You can see it on the back of the battery where it says origin
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       #102  
    Thanks Bazirker and ranzchic! I understand your OCD about closing apps... I had to do the same thing when I did this!

    Including whether or not you have a Japanese or Korean battery is a great idea! Thanks! If people can include that info, I'll add it into the spreadsheet for giggles...

    Very cool stuff! Thanks everyone!
    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
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       #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by wantafastz28 View Post
    The mods made no difference..factory reset and it's the same deal. Phone is gonna be returned to palm since my power button decided to stop working, maybe ill get lucky and get a new battery...
    Sorry to hear that! I hope the replacement Pre works perfectly for you! I just used webOS Doctor to completely wipe my Pre of all it's hacks and homebrew... Experiencing no issues what so ever. I'm not blaming the hacks or homebrew stuff though. I definitely didn't do something properly.

    Back on track with the topic... Thanks again to everyone who's participated so far! We have 14 more to go before the results are posted!! Keep em coming!
    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazirker View Post
    Here's my days worth of battery usage. Note that it sucks. The two drops in the curve are from brief Pandora use and GPS use. The phone was mostly idle. I love my Pre, but man I wish the battery life was better...

    EDIT: It won't let me post the image because of my post count, so....
    Initial Battery %: 85
    Current Battery %: 13
    Runtime: 11h11m44s
    Drain per Hour: 6.43
    Remaining Life (hrs): 2.02
    This fits in with my research on drain per hour for the average light to moderate use cases so far. There are so many variables but the best case scenarios I have seen is 2-3% and in most if not all those cases there are little or no account connections between contacts, email/messaging, and calendar. The more accounts linked especially IM accounts the more the drain rate increases and even more so when in use. In fact results with the pre seem to be inline with my research for blackberries. The drain rate spread was about the same best case scenarios being 2-3% per hour and worst cases all over the place depending on use and accounts connected to the device (in the case of BB all but email is connected with 3rd party apps). I'd be willing to bet that any smartphone will fit the same results range with the stock battery.

    Quote Originally Posted by hotis300boy View Post
    I dont have the app installed pretty much stock pre with 1.21
    I work a 12 hour shift 3 days and its my first 3 days with the phone so gotta good idea of stuff....
    10am fully charged, only thing on was phone, all radios off screen low only text n call card open
    basically the first day installed apps took some pics lots of texting barely any calls heres the catcher screen brightness was the lowest it can be and by 230 it was at like 20% n all i did was open the apps to see what they were

    This kid at work the same day was on highest screen brightness, surfin the net 3-5 cards open and radio and from 11am to 8pm his phone used about 70%

    the next day we switched batteries his was at 20% and in 15 mins it went down to like 14% with only textin card open screen low....so I know its not the battery right?

    other observations:
    both batteries were korean cell, the phone today had 4 cards open i opened a web page it told me close some cards

    a few times a day in texting I get a new text i open it n its blank for like 10 seconds before the actual conversation appears

    phone CAN be a bit laggy scrolling nothing major

    Installed 7 apps tried to install another couple n told me I was out of memory to delete some apps? this is considering I have 7.1 gb available

    I use the touchstone at night when I take it off in the AM it still shows charging logo unless I restart

    What you all think?
    This would best be handled in another thread. You are asking a lot and your info needs to be described more clearly to properly help you. I'm willing to try and help but I don't want to clutter this thread with what may be several in depth posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by vanadium View Post
    They're still refining it, I assume. Of course, it could be that when they adopted the com.palm.* namespace it was before some areas of the SDK were open to rest of us and are now open to all. Remember, they were a launch-day app, after all. And changing that namespace is a big, big no-no; it would create a NEW Pandora app on your Pre if they did that.

    Then I'd refer back to the streaming paradigm they use as the reason. They aren't truly 'streaming' like, say, SHOUTcast does. My guess is they're pushing MP3 files individually through much like an iPod, only remotely. But that's just speculation.
    I'm not following the namespace part. I'm seeing that as just a naming convention for the directories. Is there more to it than that? Like some sort of fundamental function difference because of the name of the directory? It seems obvious to me the differences in how much power is drawn is in the streaming. Which is why I first thought of the bitrate of the audio being streamed. The higher the bitrate the more data to stream the more power used to stream the increase in data. At least that seems logical to me. Though it may be more complex than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by wantafastz28 View Post
    Maybe a couple hundred a day, ive had to tone down quite a bit compared to using my treo 700p ...letting the phone sit all day doing nothing without airplane mode varies...anywhere from 5-9% per hour.
    A couple hundred a day is fairly heavy use. That is an average of 1 message every 4.8 minutes give or take with 200 being the middle. Theoretically this means the screen is on as much as 1.5 to 2 hours. And cell radio use to send them 0.25 to 0.5 hours. So the cell radio use alone uses 6.25% to 12.5% of the total 100% of the battery. The screen on time hypothetically probably uses at least 25% of the total 100% of the battery. In other words if all the texting took place in a time span of 2 hours the drain rate for those 2 hours would be 15 to 18% give or take 2 to 3%. Based on your info for drain rate if you don't do anything but let it sit without airplane mode on your recorded result of 20% drain per hour fits the calculated drain based on your described activity.
  5. #105  
    I have a stock Pre battery...it says the cell origin is Korean.
  6. #106  
    finally ran batt monitor app on pre and closed it by accident twice lol so here is the latest ok....basically my screen brightness is on the lowest....this is with like 10 texts 3 calls n running the thought of the day app, gps, wifi, bluetooth ALL OFF, korean battery considering japanese was the same if not worse....and its roughly between the screen shot to 20% an hour drain with not doing much multitasking or calls mostly texting and more importantly screen brightness totally low
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by hotis300boy; 10/22/2009 at 12:23 AM.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by harold42483 View Post
    May i ask to know what kind of battery you have. japanese of korean? You can see it on the back of the battery where it says origin
    Korean origin
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneRyno View Post


    A couple hundred a day is fairly heavy use. That is an average of 1 message every 4.8 minutes give or take with 200 being the middle. Theoretically this means the screen is on as much as 1.5 to 2 hours. And cell radio use to send them 0.25 to 0.5 hours. So the cell radio use alone uses 6.25% to 12.5% of the total 100% of the battery. The screen on time hypothetically probably uses at least 25% of the total 100% of the battery. In other words if all the texting took place in a time span of 2 hours the drain rate for those 2 hours would be 15 to 18% give or take 2 to 3%. Based on your info for drain rate if you don't do anything but let it sit without airplane mode on your recorded result of 20% drain per hour fits the calculated drain based on your described activity.

    Well i dont like it. but I've become used to carrying the charger everywhere so it's no biggie...the phone is worth it.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by wantafastz28 View Post
    Well i dont like it. but I've become used to carrying the charger everywhere so it's no biggie...the phone is worth it.
    That's why I got the 2600 extended battery. When I realized that smartphones regardless of brand or model simply draw a relatively same amount of power for each task (calls, data use, texting, screen on, listening to audio, watching video, etc) I accepted the fact that I had no choice but to charge more than once a day or buy an extended battery. I obviously don't like it just like a lot of other smartphone owners. The device technology has exceeded the battery technology. I don't follow battery tech stuff so I don't know why we don't have something 10 times better than LI ION. It seems like companies went the make the batteries bigger to get more life rather than improving the tech to keep them small and get more capacity in the same size or smaller. But anyways I'd obviously like everyone else rather the stock size battery have the much higher capacity but we are stuck with the lack of advancement in the battery tech for now.
  10. #110  
    Ok, this may be a bit off topic but it's battery related so let me just throw it in here rather than starting a new thread; I'm leaving on a week-long trip tomorrow, and just pulled my Seidio 1350 out so that I can charge up my stock battery and carry it as a spare. Well, I put the stock battery in the phone, and since I haven't used it for around 2 months, I assumed it would be empty or nearly so. So I immediately put in on the charger as it was starting up.

    When the phone finally finished booting, the battery was at 100% charge. WTH?? After sitting for 2 months?
  11. #111  
    I don't know the discharge rate of LI ION that sits on a shelf but that may be perfectly normal for a battery that isn't that old. I have two BT headsets that use LI polymer and they discharge if I don't use them for a long time like that. I do know if you let LI ION sit without using it or charging it regularly over a really long time like a year the battery will be toast and not hold a charge. I didn't know this until after the fact and my digital camcorder and hard drive mp3 players LI ION batteries won't hold a charge.
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    #112  
    I love the idea behind this thread, and keep trying to participate, but never seem to capture an entire day of what I consider "average" use. Either I accidentally close the dang thing, or whatever day I remember to turn the monitor on I use the phone way more or less than usual.
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    #113  
    This is a shameless bump, I want to find out the final results of this thing!
  14. #114  
    Me too. And please don't forget to include the confidence interval!
  15. #115  
    Guys,

    Has anyone experienced a difference in charging time / charge dissipation between using TS and USB cable? Seems like a daft question, but I have noticed much worse battery drain since I bought my TS last week. I'm using roughly 15% per hour with only a couple of cards open, one push email account, no GPS, which seems excessive, but things seemed ok prior to charging on TS.
  16. #116  
    I have only been a Pre user for a couple of months, so I can only speak of my personal usage and experience.

    After setting up my Gmail account on the Pre, I couldn't believe how quickly the battery would drain. I don't get a lot of email per day (10-20), don't spend a lot of time on calls (20-30 minutes), but the phone will turn off in less than 12 hours. Having to charge the phone sometime throughout the day in order to NOT wind up without a phone by evening is frustrating. This is using the "as items arrives" IMAP idle option, w/Bluetooth & WiFi on.

    I have tested setting mail back and forth from PUSH to 1 hour in these two months. Using PUSH, the phone doesn't make it through the day, unless I've done nothing on the phone and not received any calls. Setting it to 1 hour, I can get almost two full days usage out of it. Also, if Bluetooth is enabled the whole time, it can easily take an hour plus out of my usage time.

    After researching this extensively in different forums, I took the recommendation of many posts suggesting PUSH as the method to extend battery life. But in my personal tests, it becomes clear that this entirely depends on what a user does with their phone, and that PUSH doesn't save battery life even with light usage over manual settings. I would have to suggest that anyone with a Pre test BOTH methods for email and experiment having Bluetooth/WiFi on intermittently to know what will work better for you. For light users like myself, I suggest email to check at 1 hour, Bluetooth off, Wifi on (if accessing internet at all, otherwise off). Changing any of these three settings can add or take away a couple hours from a days charge. The hassle is remembering to enable/disable all the time.

    A "Saved Settings" option would be nice to quickly configure different settings, wouldn't it?
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by rhysofen View Post
    Guys,

    Has anyone experienced a difference in charging time / charge dissipation between using TS and USB cable? Seems like a daft question, but I have noticed much worse battery drain since I bought my TS last week. I'm using roughly 15% per hour with only a couple of cards open, one push email account, no GPS, which seems excessive, but things seemed ok prior to charging on TS.
    What was your drain rate like before and is there anything about your daily routine that has changed to coincide with getting the TS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry R. View Post
    I have only been a Pre user for a couple of months, so I can only speak of my personal usage and experience.

    After setting up my Gmail account on the Pre, I couldn't believe how quickly the battery would drain. I don't get a lot of email per day (10-20), don't spend a lot of time on calls (20-30 minutes), but the phone will turn off in less than 12 hours. Having to charge the phone sometime throughout the day in order to NOT wind up without a phone by evening is frustrating. This is using the "as items arrives" IMAP idle option, w/Bluetooth & WiFi on.
    10-20 email per day doesn't seem like very much to me. I don't have any bench tests to calculate power draw for email. Size of the email would be too much of a variable the bigger the emails the more the data/radio is used. 30 minutes of talk time will use 10% of the battery. That leaves 90% not counting emails or other use so assuming no email or other use for the remaining 90% the drain per hour would be 7.5%. Obviously there is other use so we can factor that in to arrive at how much it drains during the idle time but so far it looks like we are honing in on a drain rate that lands in the expected range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry R. View Post
    I have tested setting mail back and forth from PUSH to 1 hour in these two months. Using PUSH, the phone doesn't make it through the day, unless I've done nothing on the phone and not received any calls. Setting it to 1 hour, I can get almost two full days usage out of it. Also, if Bluetooth is enabled the whole time, it can easily take an hour plus out of my usage time.
    I would definitely stick with 1 hour interval on email if it makes that much of a difference unless you have to have the email as soon as they arrive. How many email accounts and which services? if you don't mind sharing that info. As items arrive or a fix interval setting is case by case dependent, there are too many variables to do a cover all recommendation. Yes BT does draw a decent amount of power. About 2-3 hours less out of a full charge about 1% per hour increase in drain on the stock battery.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneRyno View Post
    What was your drain rate like before and is there anything about your daily routine that has changed to coincide with getting the TS?



    10-20 email per day doesn't seem like very much to me. I don't have any bench tests to calculate power draw for email. Size of the email would be too much of a variable the bigger the emails the more the data/radio is used. 30 minutes of talk time will use 10% of the battery. That leaves 90% not counting emails or other use so assuming no email or other use for the remaining 90% the drain per hour would be 7.5%. Obviously there is other use so we can factor that in to arrive at how much it drains during the idle time but so far it looks like we are honing in on a drain rate that lands in the expected range.



    I would definitely stick with 1 hour interval on email if it makes that much of a difference unless you have to have the email as soon as they arrive. How many email accounts and which services? if you don't mind sharing that info. As items arrive or a fix interval setting is case by case dependent, there are too many variables to do a cover all recommendation. Yes BT does draw a decent amount of power. About 2-3 hours less out of a full charge about 1% per hour increase in drain on the stock battery.
    Drain rate prior to using TS seemed significantly better, although I bought the TS within a week of buying the phone, so not a lot time to compare (I'm in the UK so only had the phone a couple of weeks).
    I now have the TS on my desk at work, so the phone stays at 100% until 17:30 every day, but was dead by morning with minimal usage after work.
    I just noticed that I was permanently signed in to Google Talk as a result of setting up my GMail account, which coincided with me getting the TS. I guess that could have an impact so I have signed out now and am hoping for better results.
    What would you say an "average" <--(Ha!) drain rate should be, making approx. 10 mins of calls, 10 mins of web, GPS on, 2 email accounts (one set to push, the other every hour), bluetooth off? I know it will be a rough guess, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by rhysofen View Post
    Drain rate prior to using TS seemed significantly better, although I bought the TS within a week of buying the phone, so not a lot time to compare (I'm in the UK so only had the phone a couple of weeks).
    I now have the TS on my desk at work, so the phone stays at 100% until 17:30 every day, but was dead by morning with minimal usage after work.
    I just noticed that I was permanently signed in to Google Talk as a result of setting up my GMail account, which coincided with me getting the TS. I guess that could have an impact so I have signed out now and am hoping for better results.
    What would you say an "average" <--(Ha!) drain rate should be, making approx. 10 mins of calls, 10 mins of web, GPS on, 2 email accounts (one set to push, the other every hour), bluetooth off? I know it will be a rough guess, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
    Google talk and I believe all IM connections increase drain a lot. You can log out of it in the messaging app without removing the account and I can pretty much safely say you will see a significant improvement. 10 minutes of call will use 4%. 10 minutes of web about 1 to 1.5%. Email is to hard to gauge since how many emails and the size of each is too much of a variable. Best thing to do for them is set to as items arrive or an interval which ever settings uses the least amount of power in your situation. I would estimate assuming all calls and web use were back to back and you had a full actual 100% charge the stock battery would read about 93-95%. In my study so far battery drain rates range from 2% to over 10% per hour. With idle drain rates being between 2% and 8%; depending on how many accounts are connected, idle radio use, and signal quality. Anything below 5% typically means practically no use and practically no account connections. It seems the average joe light to medium user gets between 5% and 8% and anything above 10% above medium to heavy usage and in some cases indicates non-usage related problems.
    Last edited by StoneRyno; 10/28/2009 at 07:31 PM.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneRyno View Post
    I would definitely stick with 1 hour interval on email if it makes that much of a difference unless you have to have the email as soon as they arrive. How many email accounts and which services? if you don't mind sharing that info. As items arrive or a fix interval setting is case by case dependent, there are too many variables to do a cover all recommendation. Yes BT does draw a decent amount of power. About 2-3 hours less out of a full charge about 1% per hour increase in drain on the stock battery.
    I have 9 accounts, but prior to getting the Pre, I had configured all of them to be collected into the one Gmail account. So the phone is only grabbing one account.

    I switched from PUSH on Monday/Tuesday to 1 hour on Wednesday and today. The phone has been unplugged from charging for 4 hours and is at 71%. It would be at or under 50% by this time using PUSH.

    I am hoping for a future Power Settings option with multiple profiles, similar to the Power Options in Windows. Then with a quick two finger presses, users could switch between a car profile with BT on/WiFi off or a Bldg profile w/BT off/WiFi on.

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