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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    So go buy an Apple product if you want use the solution that is inferior. That is what Apple wants you to do, buy their products. If you want to sync with itunes you have to use their products or resort to third part products, there is nothing wrong with that! That is how companies work, they make it so that you purchase their products. Do some of you even work?
    What about those of us who use both Apple and non-Apple products? The thing is, I really enjoy using my iPod and it's my main source of listening to music mainly because the battery life sucks on the Pre and I don't want to drain my phone down too much. I don't always carry my iPod with my however, so it's nice to have my music on my Pre as well. I'd rather have the convenience of just using iTunes for everything since it just works.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    This article is a good summary of the risk Palm faces with their iTunes approach:

    http://hunter.pairsite.com/blogs/20091004/

    "...Clearly, other companies know how to sync painlessly with iTunes music (see RIM's Blackberry Media Sync for example), so why doesn't Palm develop a syncing solution for their own hardware? The exact reason is unknown, but my guess is that it's a combination of things. Perhaps Palm doesn't have the resources to develop their own sync app. Or maybe they want some publicity. Or maybe they just want to push Apple's buttons. Who really knows. But I seriously question the strategy and brains of any company that ties critical product capabilities to the unsupported use of their competitor's software. I mean, really? Can it get any more ridiculous? Can you possibly send a more mixed, less confidence-inspiring, "we're a bunch of hacks who can't provide our own sync software for our products" message to customers?...."
    What we know is that Palm has very little resources, so I think his first guess is closest to the truth. The rest is just conjecture and hysteria.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    If Palm deserves criticism in this whole iTunes affair it is that relying on iTunes lets it neglect alternative media management. We basically have to use iTunes.
    Palm doesn't rely on iTunes. Lots of alternatives exist, such as Songbird using either iPod Device Support or FolderSync addons is a perfect alternative. Others have mentioned using WinAmp or MediaMonkey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    What matters is that we have the choice to use something other than the iPhone.

    In the 90's and even now to some extent, Microsoft's dominance made it very hard to use anything other than Windows. Even now people are still talking about Mac marginalization, and Apple has done what it could to remain compatible with Windows without asking permission from Microsoft.
    You do have a choice, there is blackberry, windows mobile, android, palm, nokia, and a plethora of other choices available. Apple holds like 1 percent of the billions phones sold worldwide. Show us where there isn't any choice. They don't even sell the most smartphones in North America or worldwide, how the heck are they making sure there is no choice when they don't even sell the most phones?
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by cbulock View Post
    What about those of us who use both Apple and non-Apple products? The thing is, I really enjoy using my iPod and it's my main source of listening to music mainly because the battery life sucks on the Pre and I don't want to drain my phone down too much. I don't always carry my iPod with my however, so it's nice to have my music on my Pre as well. I'd rather have the convenience of just using iTunes for everything since it just works.
    Last time I checked Apple advertises that itunes syncs only with ipods and iphones. The never said it sync with other devices. How come those who own blackberries are able to use RIM's software to sync songs with itunes but Palm Pre owners can't. I mean Palm also now syncs pictures with itunes. I mean they can't even bother to find a solution to sync pictures for Pres so they have to rely on Apple.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    I mean they can't even bother to find a solution to sync pictures for Pres so they have to rely on Apple.
    Err? This whole iTunes sync is just extra to what Pre already offers. Unlike the iPhone or iPod Touch, the Pre does not require external applications to manage pictures or music. The Pre allows USB Mass Storage, allowing not only the user to manage things manually, but opens up the possibility of using lots of other applications.

    Personally, I don't really care if Pre works with iTunes. What does annoy me is Apple going out of thier way to break syncing with the Pre. We're not asking Apple to support the Pre, but breaking stuff just to break stuff is the worst thing I think they can do. This, and other recent decisions from Apple, is why I'm actively looking for an iPod alternative.
    Last edited by Brain_ReCall; 10/04/2009 at 09:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    You do have a choice, there is blackberry, windows mobile, android, palm, nokia, and a plethora of other choices available.
    Right, and I chose the Pre and am going to use it as my media player. I have a Nano sitting in my car but I can't be bothered syncing it and carrying two devices. Apple was hoping that this will push me to buy an iPhone whether I want one or not, but I'm going to hook my Pre to iTunes. Big deal.

    Apple holds like 1 percent of the billions phones sold worldwide. Show us where there isn't any choice. They don't even sell the most smartphones in North America or worldwide, how the heck are they making sure there is no choice when they don't even sell the most phones?
    In mobile phones you have to look at fragmentation. In terms of operating systems, the iPhone OS is the only significant homogeneous share of the market. It's currently enjoying a network effect at the expense of choice for anyone who doesn't want an iPhone even if they want to access the services made available to it.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Err? This whole iTunes sync is just extra to what Pre already offers. Unlike the iPhone or iPod Touch, the Pre does not require external applications to manage pictures or music. The Pre allows USB Mass Storage, allowing not only the user to manage things manually, but opens up the possibility of using lots of other applications.

    Personally, I don't really care if Pre works with iTunes. What does annoy me is Apple going out of thier way to break syncing with the Pre. We're not asking Apple to support the Pre, but breaking stuff just to break stuff is the worst thing I think they can do. This, any other recent decisions from Apple, is why I'm actively looking for an iPod alternative.
    Oh it allows it but Palm chooses to hack into a competitor's product and advertise that feature on their main website. Why shouldn't Apple go out of their way to break hacks by petty leeeches, I'm sure if somebody hacked into your savings account, you would gladly oblige for them to do so.
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Right, and I chose the Pre and am going to use it as my media player. I have a Nano sitting in my car but I can't be bothered syncing it and carrying two devices. Apple was hoping that this will push me to buy an iPhone whether I want one or not, but I'm going to hook my Pre to iTunes. Big deal.



    In mobile phones you have to look at fragmentation. In terms of operating systems, the iPhone OS is the only significant homogeneous share of the market. It's currently enjoying a network effect at the expense of choice for anyone who doesn't want an iPhone even if they want to access the services made available to it.
    Again Apple doesn't sell the most smartphones, the iphone OS doesn't have the most marketshare, stop making stuff up please. There is plenty of choice out there, no one is forcing anyone to use the iphone or forcing 3rd party companies to adopt their stuff for the iphone while leaving everyone else. If they choose to do so that is their own business.
  10. #70  
    The only way they'll be able to compete with Apple is to offer the same stuff. a PreTunes program would take years to get to Apple's iTunes Level.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Last time I checked Apple advertises that itunes syncs only with ipods and iphones. The never said it sync with other devices. How come those who own blackberries are able to use RIM's software to sync songs with itunes but Palm Pre owners can't. I mean Palm also now syncs pictures with itunes. I mean they can't even bother to find a solution to sync pictures for Pres so they have to rely on Apple.
    I realize this. I'm not expecting Apple to support the Palm. The thing is, they are spending their time and money to purposely break stop the Palm from syncing with iTunes. That's really the only thing I see as being an issue. And the picture sync has worked since the Pre came out, I think it just organizes the albums together as well. And in the end, the Pre is not relying on Apple anyhow. You can sync pictures and music without iTunes. That is just a bonus feature they added.
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidjkratz View Post
    The only way they'll be able to compete with Apple is to offer the same stuff. a PreTunes program would take years to get to Apple's iTunes Level.
    So that makes it ok for them to hack into itunes because they can't compete in the first place?
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    I'm sure if somebody hacked into your savings account, you would gladly oblige for them to do so.

    ...

    Wow, I ... yeah, I'm not going to take the bait.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by cbulock View Post
    I realize this. I'm not expecting Apple to support the Palm. The thing is, they are spending their time and money to purposely break stop the Palm from syncing with iTunes. That's really the only thing I see as being an issue. And the picture sync has worked since the Pre came out, I think it just organizes the albums together as well. And in the end, the Pre is not relying on Apple anyhow. You can sync pictures and music without iTunes. That is just a bonus feature they added.
    And Palm hacking and using Apple's vendor id is not a problem though right? I mean there's nothing wrong with that. Yes the Pre is not relying on Apple, that is why Palm is advertising a hack on their website which uses software made by Apple. I mean there's no way that Palm isn't using that as a selling feature for the Pre, no matter how many on this website want to believe that no one is buying the Pre based on itunes sync.
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    ...

    Wow, I ... yeah, I'm not going to take the bait.
    Hey its a free world buddy.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Again Apple doesn't sell the most smartphones, the iphone OS doesn't have the most marketshare, stop making stuff up please. There is plenty of choice out there, no one is forcing anyone to use the iphone or forcing 3rd party companies to adopt their stuff for the iphone while leaving everyone else. If they choose to do so that is their own business.
    You need to read my post again. Maybe I'm using technical terms you're not familiar with.

    Mobile devices use specialized operating systems that are optimized for specific models are not compatible, even if made by the same vendor. So looking at how many phones RIM and Nokia sell in compare to Apple glosses over the uniformity of the iPhone OS. It's basically a single OS for all its devices and an attractive target for developers, even if other vendors have similar or larger market share. The problem is that the resources going to the iPhone exclude everyone else.

    And again, I have made my choice and it's the Pre. And I hooked up my Pre to iTunes today on my own computer. Why does this pain you so badly?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    You need to read my post again. Maybe I'm using technical terms you're not familiar with.

    Mobile devices use specialized operating systems that are optimized for specific models are not compatible, even if made by the same vendor. So looking at how many phones RIM and Nokia sell in compare to Apple glosses over the uniformity of the iPhone OS. It's basically a single OS for all its devices and an attractive target for developers, even if other vendors have similar or larger market share. The problem is that the resources going to the iPhone exclude everyone else.

    And again, I have made my choice and it's the Pre. And I hooked up my Pre to iTunes today on my own computer. Why does this pain you so badly?
    Of course I get what you're saying. You're post is basiaclly a whining post because Apple has a successful business model and developers are flocking to them. Go tell the other companies to develop successful models.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Of course I get what you're saying. You're post is basiaclly a whining post because Apple has a successful business model and developers are flocking to them. Go tell the other companies to develop successful models.
    Are you an Apple shareholder?

    I'm only debating this from a consumer perspective. I'm not invested in Palm and don't care what their business model is and how it compares with Apple's. I've owned Macs when Apple was about to go out of business and everyone was crapping on their business model.

    What does that have to do with me syncing my Pre with iTunes?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Personally, I don't really care if Pre works with iTunes. What does annoy me is Apple going out of thier way to break syncing with the Pre. We're not asking Apple to support the Pre, but breaking stuff just to break stuff is the worst thing I think they can do. This, and other recent decisions from Apple, is why I'm actively looking for an iPod alternative.
    Well, one possibility that explains Apple's behavior is the rules/agreements they have with the record labels. As Steve Jobs said once in a long blog post, Apple would love to do away with DRM and all the rules/restrictions required to sell and manage online music (one of which governs the types and number of devices you can sync with). Who knows, maybe third-party devices connecting via iTunes breaks one of the agreements Apple has with the record labels. I can tell you that Apple walked a delicate line getting rights and permission to develop the whole iTunes system to begin with. Record labels were not exactly willing to do it without some guarantees about security and protection.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    Well, one possibility that explains Apple's behavior is the rules/agreements they have with the record labels. As Steve Jobs said once in a long blog post, Apple would love to do away with DRM and all the rules/restrictions required to sell and manage online music (one of which governs the types and number of devices you can sync with). Who knows, maybe third-party devices connecting via iTunes breaks one of the agreements Apple has with the record labels. I can tell you that Apple walked a delicate line getting rights and permission to develop the whole iTunes system to begin with. Record labels were not exactly willing to do it without some guarantees about security and protection.
    Ah, record labels. I didn't think about that.

    But wouldn't Apple have to lock-down other entry points? Whats so different between the public-API, reading the raw iTunes XML, or Palm's method?

    Not to say that the record labels wouldn't be stupid enough to restrict their contract terms to only iPod syncs, but it seems far more likely that Apple broke the Pre syncing just to break it. After all, when it comes to hardware, Apple has always been closed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
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