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  1. #21  
    Dear Lord, the misinformation here....

    ...Look, I'm far from an Apple fanb...well, apparently, it's a bad word here....but the same nonsense gets regurgitated with each of these threads, and it's easily debunked:

    1) "Apple will gladly take your money if you don't own an iPod. But they won't let you sync with your non-Apple MP3 player?" - Wrong. There is a publicly available sync API that allows non-Apple devices access iTunes libraries AND playlists. Palm, for whatever reason, just refuses to put in the modest effort to create a plug-in for this. Blackberry users can freely sync with iTunes. All official and like.

    2) "But....crapple FREELY distributes it's Itunes software on the net for anyone to download at anytime...FREE. So to me, that makes it UNproprietary and anyone with a phone/mp3 player from any manufacturer should be able to sync with it at any time they so choose." - Wrong. Free has nothing to do with it. You still agree to a license agreement before using iTunes. You know, that blob of legalese that everyone clicks by in .3 milliseconds? And what's more, as I already noted in #1, any manufacturer ALREADY can sync with at any time they choose. They just can't sync with it in ANY WAY they choose. Which is more than reasonable. Free or not, iTunes is intellectual property of Apple.

    3) "Apple wrote software for PCs, not Macs. Unlike Microsoft with Window Media Players and other software, Apple only wanted it to work for their devices. Then they should only sell their devices to people who own Macs. It is ridiculous that people have to load their PCs with a one trick pony software. I don't know how Apple has gotten away with it for so long." - ?!?!?! What do Macs have to do with iPods? How is it that people HAVE to load iTunes on their PC? It's pure nonsense.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayvidpriddy View Post
    Why do they keep on trying to make sure the Palm Pre works with iTunes? It's not an Apple product, are they that brainless that they can't build their own software program to work with THEIR phone? Instead they keep trying to hack the phones OS so it will work with iTunes? I don't get it...I dumped my iPhone to come to Sprint & the Palm, the last thing I want to do is continue using iTunes!

    Just like with the battery issue I had, I called Palm and they did everything in their power to not correct the issue, they did not want to replace my battery! I had to demand a supervisor and then even he was refusing to replace my battery, it was only until threats started to fly before he said "ok will replace it!" This company is a trip! This kind of service is not going to get them where they want to be in the smartphone world...sorry folks!

    Again, I just don't understand why they are so lazy, build your own program to work with the Palm and stop trying to use someone elses program that was built for another device. Seriously these people are f'n LAZY as hell!
    Cry a little more, please? All your posts complaining about your purchase makes you look like a fool as a consumer. You obviously didn't do enough research before purchasing the phone, though you present yourself as a person with "discriminating" tastes and an expectation of perfection.
  3. s219's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
    If this was Microsoft, the FTC would step in and force a firewall between the two divisions and force the iTunes API to be an open standard to which anyone can synch. In fact, it has happened with MS, when there were accusations that MS applications had an unfair programming advantage because MS also wrote the OS and included functions that benefited their apps and penalized other apps. Given the market share of Windows, the govt stepped in. Of course, we all have a love affair with Apple, so I have limited expectations to see a similar standard applied.


    (okay, perhaps that was four cents )
    Apple already put an open, public API in place so that customers and developers can access their music without going through iTunes, or without depending on Apple. To call it an API is overkill, since it's really just a meticulously documented XML catalog (in other words, it's as simple as it could possibly be, with an extremely low barrier to entry). I am pretty sure they did this to make sure there was always a way for customers to access and sync their music.
  4. s219's Avatar
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    #24  
    BTW, I read this morning that the Pre userbase is about 0.3% of the iPod/iPhone userbase. Makes me wonder why Apple cares about this at all.
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    #25  
    My problem with iTunes is that I am an "anything but Apple" guy; I sort of got on my "high horse" years ago when iPods first came out when I learned that you could only use iTunes with them. When the "i" products started to take off, and "everyone" was getting them, that was enough for me to go a different direction. I got a Sansa MP3 player, got hooked on Rhapsody, and I've been pleased with Rhapsody and still see no reason to mess with iTunes. I was a bit dismayed when Pre was coming out to learn that it would interface with iTunes as it's primary manager. It did not stop me from getting the Pre, but I sure would have liked Palm to have come up with their own player/manager. Or interface with some other tool.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    BTW, I read this morning that the Pre userbase is about 0.3% of the iPod/iPhone userbase. Makes me wonder why Apple cares about this at all.
    Because the Pre is just the beginning. If Palm gets away with it, every MP3 on the market will soon follow. Apple probably knows it has no legal leg to stand on, and trying to sue every MP3 manufacturer who tries to plug directly into iTunes would be fruitless. So instead, they are trying to make an example of a high-profile nuisance by showing how easily they can break the link.
  7.    #27  
    Hey all I'm saying is that Palm should have included software with the phone to sync media, I have a Palm I want to use Palm software, not Apples. There should be no charge for it as it should be a part of the phones package.

    BlackBerry has it's own program, why not Palm?

    Getting back to iTunes, I've always hated it and refuse to use it unless I had to. And I would never buy songs from them, a buck for a song? Please...I buy songs for like 10 cents with alltunes, I don't understand why people use iTunes to buy music in the first place that costs way too much and is DRM'd.

    And as one lovely person suggested I do, I don't write software, I just use it. It's not my job to write for Palm, last time I checked I wasn't on their payroll.
    SPRINT...the carrier I never thought I'd switch to (and didn't lol)!
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    #28  
    Jeez. The anger people have towards corporations is just so bizarre and immature. Crapple? Winblowz? Are people seriously trying to prove their superiority over a product? What satisfaction do people get out of declaring products that they DON'T use? I hate aquafresh, so you know how I express my displeasure in the product? I buy something else and happily live the rest of my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayvidpriddy View Post
    BlackBerry has it's own program, why not Palm?
    Here's what's stupid. Palm DID have it's own sync solution with Palm Desktop. Just like with PIM and Touchscreen, Palm was already a pioneer in this field but when it came time to rebooting their OS direction then instead of advancing the software to fit in with the times they killed it. Palm Desktop not only would have been the desktop sync solution many of us wanted as an option, but it would also be the easy way to browse/buy apps and manage media.

    I like my Pre enough to stick with it, but I do question Palm's direction with eliminating the desktop. Smartphones are an extension to our computers, not a replacement.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Wrong. There is a publicly available sync API that allows non-Apple devices access iTunes libraries AND playlists. Palm, for whatever reason, just refuses to put in the modest effort to create a plug-in for this. Blackberry users can freely sync with iTunes. All official and like.
    Thanks for taking what I said out of context. Yes I'm fully aware of this third-party "sync" framework. But it's NOT iTunes sync. It is a different animal.

    Apple obviously considers that method inferior. If it were the same as real iTunes sync, then Apple wouldn't be in such a huff to "protect" real sync from non-Apple products. If Apple considers it inferior, why should we feel any differently?
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by phidalgo View Post
    Cry a little more, please? All your posts complaining about your purchase makes you look like a fool as a consumer. You obviously didn't do enough research before purchasing the phone, though you present yourself as a person with "discriminating" tastes and an expectation of perfection.
    I'll cry for YOU personally! Seriously, do you think people read everything there is to know about something before they go out and buy it? A lot of things are figured out after you make a purchase and start playing with it...I'm so sure you knew EVERYTHING that your phone could or couldn't do before you bought it? Uh huh, sure, a right! NOT!

    My complaints are mostly about the build qualitiy of the phone and the hardware (all valid complaints and I'm not the only one complaining!) Assuming that a smartphone has it's own proprietary software is not unheard of, actually most people already assume this. Ever had a blackberry, iPhone etc? They all have their own software to use with the phones! It's more of a suggestion then anything else, there are just a lot of obvious flaws here that should have already been sorted out and fixed, A Palm fan boy are we? Palm can do no wrong huh? God I thought I had avoided them when I left Apple... Money talks and without us "complainers AKA people who buy their products and expect them to work without huge problems" Palm would be out of business!

    I'll send you some tears via UPSP...it's so amazing to me how people will spend their money and then not voice their complaints when they feel that certain things are broken and should be fixed. Instead they just accept it, sorry but I voice my opinion in hopes of things being heard and finally getting fixed.

    Again, I know your precious Palm can do no wrong but I assure you they can and HAVE! Now who is crying?
    SPRINT...the carrier I never thought I'd switch to (and didn't lol)!
  11. gage006's Avatar
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    #31  
    Who says they're not working on their own program? It's entirely possible they have a backup plan for whenever their hacks get blocked or take too much effort.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dallashigh View Post
    Thanks for taking what I said out of context. Yes I'm fully aware of this third-party "sync" framework. But it's NOT iTunes sync. It is a different animal.

    Apple obviously considers that method inferior. If it were the same as real iTunes sync, then Apple wouldn't be in such a huff to "protect" real sync from non-Apple products. If Apple considers it inferior, why should we feel any differently?
    It SHOULD be inferior. Apple is a successful company precisely because they have built an ecosystem of products that strengthens each part of the portfolio because they work so well with each other. It's a basic principle of business: Leverage brands that are established to enhance brands that need to be built further.

    The sync framework is there so that others can put the work in to make their devices work with iTunes, AS IT SHOULD BE. You think Apple should keep releasing new versions of iTunes for every smartphone and MP3 player that comes out to ensure they are compatible out of the box? Maybe Microsoft should write Windows drivers for every peripheral in existence for every version of Windows in existence and be responsible for keeping them updated too?

    There's nothing anti-competitive about iTunes. You don't have to download it. You don't have to buy an iPod to listen to music on the go. You don't have to use iTunes Music Store to buy apps, videos, movies, or music online. But if you choose to enter into Apple's ecosystem, you agree to do so by their rules. There's plenty of competition if that doesn't work for you. Palm's shady USB-ID spoofing is just an embarrassment at this point. Nothing like touting a feature on the Pre (mentioned twice explicitly on Palm.com) that works some of the time, and Palm has no control over when that is.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayvidpriddy View Post
    I'll cry for YOU personally! Seriously, do you think people read everything there is to know about something before they go out and buy it? A lot of things are figured out after you make a purchase and start playing with it...I'm so sure you knew EVERYTHING that your phone could or couldn't do before you bought it? Uh huh, sure, a right! NOT!

    My complaints are mostly about the build qualitiy of the phone and the hardware (all valid complaints and I'm not the only one complaining!) Assuming that a smartphone has it's own proprietary software is not unheard of, actually most people already assume this. Ever had a blackberry, iPhone etc? They all have their own software to use with the phones! It's more of a suggestion then anything else, there are just a lot of obvious flaws here that should have already been sorted out and fixed, A Palm fan boy are we? Palm can do no wrong huh? God I thought I had avoided them when I left Apple... Money talks and without us "complainers AKA people who buy their products and expect them to work without huge problems" Palm would be out of business!

    I'll send you some tears via UPSP...it's so amazing to me how people will spend their money and then not voice their complaints when they feel that certain things are broken and should be fixed. Instead they just accept it, sorry but I voice my opinion in hopes of things being heard and finally getting fixed.

    Again, I know your precious Palm can do no wrong but I assure you they can and HAVE! Now who is crying?
    Good job evading my point.

    I stated that you were a foolish consumer who didn't do his research enough to make an informed decision.

    Am I wrong? Did I say anything besides the point i made?

    I never said that Palm does not make a mistake. However, You should have known what you were facing when you purchased the phone.

    So, Cry on please.
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    #34  
    I don't see how any body can claim that they knew what the were buying when they bought a pre. Sprint was totally hushed about delivery dates - and more about what the phone does. Until it hit our hands, nobody was absolutely sure about all of the cans and cannots - it was all speculation. I will say that if you bought the phone one week after launch pre central would have given a clear shot at what it does...

    but if you didn't have pre central to give you a heads up, who did you have? Even sprint reps could not truly demo the phone, we got our phones almost as soon as they did. Researching the pre was not as easy as some like to make it seem. Even the manual that came with the pre was not complete.

    i'l finish by saying that the phone you have today is not the same phone you had last week...
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by tarhead View Post
    I don't see how any body can claim that they knew what the were buying when they bought a pre. Sprint was totally hushed about delivery dates - and more about what the phone does. Until it hit our hands, nobody was absolutely sure about all of the cans and cannots - it was all speculation. I will say that if you bought the phone one week after launch pre central would have given a clear shot at what it does...

    but if you didn't have pre central to give you a heads up, who did you have? Even sprint reps could not truly demo the phone, we got our phones almost as soon as they did. Researching the pre was not as easy as some like to make it seem. Even the manual that came with the pre was not complete.

    i'l finish by saying that the phone you have today is not the same phone you had last week...

    That is, if you bought it on release day. Some of us waited until the initial shipments were made and user feedback was given.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You think Apple should keep releasing new versions of iTunes for every smartphone and MP3 player that comes out to ensure they are compatible out of the box? Maybe Microsoft should write Windows drivers for every peripheral in existence for every version of Windows in existence and be responsible for keeping them updated too?
    Your analogies prove that you have absolutely no understanding of what is going on. Nobody has said that Apple should do ANYTHING to support the Pre. In fact, they go out of their way to NOT support it.

    This is a more appropriate analogy: Apple made the iPod/iTunes work with Windows. Imagine if Microsoft blocked iPod drivers and iTunes software from working with Windows. I wonder how you would feel about that? Because that's what Apple is doing to Palm. And you say Palm are the ones who look foolish...
  17. #37  
    I think the answer to why they don't create their own program... cause iTunes is already on many peoples computers. Why create an app that does the exact same thing that iTunes does when they can just use the existing software. Palm doesn't force you to use iTunes, its just another option.
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    very interesting explanation and makes me look at it with a different angle...

    your right in that it's a vehicle for selling it's hardware... and offers that seamless experience with their products. they put out itunes for anyone to use the ability to buy music and manage the music through their itunes software and play it on any PC that you choose to put it on.

    But if you want to fully utilize the software and all its features then you have to buy the ipods and the iphones and for those owners is a value-add. Is that wrong from a business/product standpoint?

    Apple gives the API available so that other manufacturers can provide 3rd party solutions to rightfully access the music they have on the software and can copy them over... but why does Apple have to be forced to give features that they want specifically for their product and that they feel is important to maintaining their products?

    If you were a businessman, you would say it's not right for people to demand you to let them use your product and hack into it because 'you're too big.'

    Apple is still selling products... they are still coming out with products and probably introducing new products like the tablet that will take PCs to another level as they did phones and can still take itunes to another level with it. They probably dont know what new things they can use it for but don't need people telling them what to do with their software because they feel they have a right to their asset and possible new features that they want for their OWN products.

    That's like telling them you've sold enough ipods and phones (boy they really have ) and you make enough money so you can give up a little bit of this itunes feature and let others have it. Apple already has projected that ipod sales will start falling off in the future and wont be the cash cow it use to be but people will force them to take that hit now and be part of killing their own product?

    I don't have any other Apple products besides going through their 2G and now 3GS (ok, daughter has an old nano)... I'm a PC guy using MS7. I rarely use their iTunes to manage my music and I actually hate it cause they always stuck programs in the background to check for updates and if I didnt have a phone I'd never use it. And I really didnt see the big fuss why Palm has to force this when they can use the API to access users music and move them over.

    But this post makes me see it differently but from a businessmans perspective. If I were Apple I would be damned if I am going to let competitors ride on the back of my product that I built up and own and am still innovating with. Honestly, I hope Apple keeps fighting them and feel Palm is wrong.
    Well said, a lot of the people forget that these companies are businessess out to make money. Palm just like Apple is out to make money. itunes syncing is a feature that ipods and iphones have. Why the heck should Apple be forced to give out that advantage because Palm is too damn lazy to write their own software like RIM does.
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayvidpriddy View Post
    Hey all I'm saying is that Palm should have included software with the phone to sync media, I have a Palm I want to use Palm software, not Apples. There should be no charge for it as it should be a part of the phones package.

    BlackBerry has it's own program, why not Palm?

    Getting back to iTunes, I've always hated it and refuse to use it unless I had to. And I would never buy songs from them, a buck for a song? Please...I buy songs for like 10 cents with alltunes, I don't understand why people use iTunes to buy music in the first place that costs way too much and is DRM'd.

    And as one lovely person suggested I do, I don't write software, I just use it. It's not my job to write for Palm, last time I checked I wasn't on their payroll.
    itunes doesn't have DRM.
  20. Adjei's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by dallashigh View Post
    Thanks for taking what I said out of context. Yes I'm fully aware of this third-party "sync" framework. But it's NOT iTunes sync. It is a different animal.

    Apple obviously considers that method inferior. If it were the same as real iTunes sync, then Apple wouldn't be in such a huff to "protect" real sync from non-Apple products. If Apple considers it inferior, why should we feel any differently?
    So go buy an Apple product if you want use the solution that is inferior. That is what Apple wants you to do, buy their products. If you want to sync with itunes you have to use their products or resort to third part products, there is nothing wrong with that! That is how companies work, they make it so that you purchase their products. Do some of you even work?
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