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  1. cashen's Avatar
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       #1  
    I'm sure most of you read the Engadget story today. I visited the link and noticed the following;

    Apple iPhone No 0.97 W/kg
    Apple iPhone 3GS Yes 0.52 - 1.19 W/kg
    Apple iPhone 3G Yes 0.24 - 1.39 W/kg

    Palm Pre Yes 0.92 W/kg

    And if anyone was wondering...

    http://www.ewg.org/cellphoneradiation/faq
    13. DOES CELL PHONE RADIATION AFFECT SPERM COUNT?
    The effects of radiofrequency (cell phone) radiation on biological tissues span a wide range, from tissue heating to the production of reactive oxygen species (oxidative stress) and cell death. Both heat and oxidative stress are damaging to sperm cells. Studies conducted in two U.S. research centers, the Cleveland Clinic Center for Reproductive Medicine and Medical College of Wisconsin, as well as other studies from around the world (Australia, Japan, and Europe) have found that cell phone radiation can lead to a significant decrease of sperm numbers, motility and viability.
    Although it remains to be determined to what extent typical cell phone use may affect reproductive health in men, many scientists — and the Swiss Federal Office of Radiation Protection — recommend avoiding keeping a cell phone in talk mode in the front trouser pocket.
    Last edited by cashen; 09/27/2009 at 10:13 AM.
  2. awrnsmn's Avatar
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    #2  
    Microwave ovens, TVs, flourecent lights, fm radios, power lines.....ect. Life is full of things like this. Why would you have your phone in talk mode in your pocket?
  3. #3  
    You are pushing my biologist/med school buttons....don't make me give a long winded answer...I will so do it!!
  4. cashen's Avatar
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    You are pushing my biologist/med school buttons....don't make me give a long winded answer...I will so do it!!
    Please, school us.
  5. awrnsmn's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    You are pushing my biologist/med school buttons....don't make me give a long winded answer...I will so do it!!
    I have to say, I'm interested!
  6. #6  
    Who cares about radiation... anyone needs to die at some point anyways. I'd rather caught dead with a Palm Pre than to live with an iPhone... oh wait, you'd die quicker with the iPhone because of the higher radiation.

    BTW, Anyone notice it says:

    Cell Phone Radiation Review for Palm Pre | Environmental Working Group

    Works with these carriers

    Sprint *, Verizon Wireless
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashen View Post
    Please, school us.
    Well the first thing you need to consider about any radiation is whether it is ionizing or not. Ionizing radiation will mutate DNA and lead to nasty things like cancer and, in this case, potentially mutated sperm or worse, mutated stem cells that produce sperm.

    Sperm, in the testis, epididymis, and vas deferens are relatively unprotected from radiation, considering they have no bones blocking the radiation. However, you do have skin in the way absorbing most of the radiation. So, I would expect to see skin abnormalities in the groin and scrotum if the radiation was a big problem. You also have to remember that the radiation coming from the cell phone is low energy. They are essentially radio waves, which you are bathed in constantly. People who work at radio stations should have much higher exposure levels, and I haven't heard of any specific diseases linked to it. I would also consider your average wifi-router has a long more radiation moving to and fro than your cell phone.

    As far as sperm counts go, I would worry about heat more than radiation. Sperm require a temperature around 97F to grow (this is why testis are outside the body). The heat generated by the pre or other phones could affect this. In fact it is one reason why truck drivers are known to have very low sperm counts. But there is a solution to this, stop wearing underwear. I am not joking about this. Fertility specialists will commonly recommend this to men in couples who are trying, but failing, to have children.

    The other big area where people freak out about cell phones is the chance of causing brain tumors. I got the chance to speak to a neuro-surgeon about this and he said as far as the literature is concerned there is no link. While this doesn't disprove the theory that cell phones could cause brain cancer, if you think about it, it is unlikely because of your skull. Bones absorb a lot of radiation (it is why x-rays work) and it would seem quite amazing to me that the skin on your ear would not be affected but your brain would.

    Now, further considerations are that some radiation can pass through materials, while other types can't. So radio waves from the cell phone probably could make it past your skull into your CNS and affect the glial cells there (neurons don't divide, so they can't actually cause cancer. All brain tumors come from the supporting cells), but again I would ask the question why are changes seen in skin cells that should be getting a much larger does of the radiation? Considering the rate at which skins cells divide, it would seem like a much more likely place to observe cancer.

    So I guess in summary, I would worry more about the heat from the cell phone affecting your sperm count than the radiation.
  8. #8  
    Oh another thing concerning free oxygen radicals. All human cells have enzymes to deal with free radicals, which are commonly created during cellular metabolism. It is true these radicals can cause damage, but it is also true that cell constantly repair and replace damaged proteins and actively convert these radicals into water.

    You also have to be careful with studies like those, because they don't say whether they were using sperm in vivo (inside a human) or in vitro (in a petri dish). In vitro studies can tell you if sperm are susceptible to such damage, but they don't tell you what actually happens in humans.

    And sperm are constantly being regenerated in humans, so every day you have new happy sperm being made and old ones dying off. So while you may damage some, the damage is transient.
  9. cashen's Avatar
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       #9  
    Are you saying i can use my Pre as a form of birth control?!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashen View Post
    Are you saying i can use my Pre as a form of birth control?!
    Yes. But the efficacy is somewhere around 1%. So there is a 99% chance that you will make a baby.

    Fun little fact, women are fertile for about 1 day out of their cycle. It is also the day they are, typically, most "interested" in you.

  11. #11  
    Probably a good reason to use a bluetooth device to keep the phone away from your head. I think most people do use a bluetooth device nowadays.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  12. #12  
    Face it - if you're a geek, your Pre is NOT going to be the reason that you don't have kids!
  13. #13  
    "Cell phone radiation" is about a thousand times more dishonest than saying "table lamp radiation". It's pushed by career-academics who want funding for endless studies, and supported by the regulate-and-outlaw-everything crowd.

    Here's some middle school physics. As wavelength decreases, frequency and energy increase. What a given frequency can energize is proportional to how big it is. So ionizing radiation that can knock out DNA pairs starts up where X-rays are, about 10^18 Hz.

    Slightly below that is the visible spectrum--what you see. That's about 10^15 Hz, much lower energy, and the wavelengths are already 1000 times too big to hit DNA.

    Waaaaaay down below that are the radio waves, which is what cell phones use, around 10^8 - 10^9 Hz. In other words, 1-10 MILLION times below visible light. Radio wavelengths are 1-10 meters tall! They're so far from being able to excite DNA it's a joke.

    Of course the next argument is that since radio waves are near microwaves that your phone is sitting there silently cooking you. Another complete abuse of scale. Cooking microwaves use molecule-wavelengths to excite water molecules, so we're about a million times off there--in fact we're well below RADAR frequencies.

    Nevermind that your phone, like anything else passing current, generates boring "normal" heat you can feel, let's tell people the evil invisible waves with a thousandth the energy are secretly cooking them. It's like sitting next to an incandescent light bulb you know to be 100 or so degrees with no problem, but then being afraid of another .001 degrees from the light itself.
  14. #14  
    Here's the electromagnetic spectrum. Note where ionizing radiation starts (X-rays), along with visible light, and radio waves:

  15. #15  
    Many prominent medical associations including the American Cancer Society have said that there is no significant harm from cell phone radiation. Don't go spreading fear. Maybe you need to take that class again in school.

    Hope this post was a joke. then yes, it was semi-funny.

    (and yes, trust me, i'm a doctor ;-) )
    ***I Twitter***

    Stop complaining & start doing ---> Leave feedback/suggestions for Palm here
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashen View Post
    ...many scientists — and the Swiss Federal Office of Radiation Protection — recommend avoiding keeping a cell phone in talk mode in the front trouser pocket.
    When you put your phone in talk mode and keep it near your groin, what part of you is doing the talking?

    - Craig
  17. #17  
    Reading fail on my part
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Milominderbinder View Post
    When you put your phone in talk mode and keep it near your groin, what part of you is doing the talking?

    - Craig

    I dunno, but its the ole crotch phone heatup that I would be more concerned about if my salmon weren't swimming up stream like there supposed to.

    Seriously, that's the advice I heard in a fertility clinic.

    By heat up I mean actual heat like when you use nav and pandora and the phone gets hot.

    I guess I'm sayin don't cook your crotch
    Last edited by windzilla; 09/27/2009 at 12:46 PM.
  19. #19  
    It may not necessarily be radiation that causes problems with power sources. Sitting by high voltage power lines can expose you to electrons flying at random off the power source.. which is why they don't advise you to live close to high power voltage lines that are in the air. Is it safe to put a lithium ion battery up to your head for extended periods of time? I don't know.
  20. #20  
    This is a good feature if you ask me. I dont want kids and am now going to leave my phone on a call right next to my nut sack for before having sex. thank your palm for including this option.
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