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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leke View Post
    At the same time there are basic features a phone should have if you want to now be categorized as a smart phone. I think many ppl here are too much of fan boyz to realise that. Palm is becoming like apple waiting months to release features that should have been released at launch. Palm should have waited before they released the device to work out these kinks. In as much as they claim they're not competing with the iphone or BB they are in terms of consumers.
    I came from using two different Treos, a Centro, a winmo phone (a TouchPro), and a blackberry (Curve). I'm not new to smartphones. I do not disagree that there are quite a few things missing on the Pre. I, personally, feel that the Pre is the best phone out at the moment. It's missing some things I would like to have, but what it does well, make it great for me. I don't really care whether people complain about what's missing. Text forwarding not on the phone is silly, for example. The calendar should've been better, clearly.

    However, it's how people complain that I find irritating. Saying, this phone is TERRIBLE, THE WORST PHONE EVER, etc., because the Calendar is slow or not color coded, is too much. Repeating whatever complaint you have in 100 posts in a 100 threads that have nothing to do with whatever the complaint is, is irritating.

    Saying that Palm should have waited to release the phone because of what is missing is, to borrow an overused word from this thread, egotistical. The Pre doesn't have everything YOU need, so it shouldn't have been released? Palm couldn't wait. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people that are happy with the phone. Palm took a chance and it's helped keep them alive. A lot of people got a pretty cool phone that is only getting better.

    They haven't done everything perfectly, of course. It's taking them a few months to get fixes out, some fixes are sorely needed. But come on.. OH NOES, THIS COMPANY SUCKS!!!! WORST COMPANY EVER!!! PALM IS DEAD (again)!!! IF YOU LIKE THE PRE, YOU'RE AN ***** THAT HAS NEVER OWNED A SMARTPHONE. OMG I HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER WHOLE WEEK FOR AN UPDATE!!??? There's way too much hyperbole and whining on both sides. This board is becoming waaaay too much like politics in this country. It's a freaking phone! Take it easy!
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    ...
    And I think your post goes a long way to explain the difference in your experience compared to others. You admit to coming from a dumb phone. By that admission, you have no basis of comparison to other smartphones. And what excites you most is that you can play several games at once.

    On the other hand, there are those of us who have been using smartphones for years, and use them as a tool for organizing our lives, not as a platform for playing games. Our use and experience lets us see just how weak the Pre is as a business tool. ...
    I'm a long-time smartphone user and there are a few things my PalmOS Treos could do that the pre can't do yet, but there are a lot of things the pre can do that the Treos could not. In addition the pre can do things no other smartphone can do! So, I'm enjoying the heck out of my pre in it's current state and watching as new features are added just makes it that much better.
    Long Live Palm
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Actually those who complain are referring to Palm. Those who defend Palm are attacking members of the forum.

    It seems rather clear who's being anti-social on the forum.
    That's absolute malarky. I've seen people on both sides of the issue personally attacked.

    Would you like examples?
  4. #64  
    For those that are saying the pre is an excellent phone out of the box please remove all homebrew aops and other tweaks you probably made on your phone since palm will get around to meeting your needs. Oh and be sure not to download 1.2 when it finally arrives.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leke View Post
    While I do agree that the iPhone did take a while to get MMS and video recording but lets face it, once it was jailbroken nobody really cared about those added features.

    I dunno about everyone else but I was totally unaware of the missing "BASIC" features from the Pre prior to launch date. Forwarding Texts, Voice Memo, Video Recording, LED Notifications, and list goes on and on...

    I don't know who in their right mind would think those were not important features...
    Well, I'm in my "right mind", and I really don't care about them. I used the video recording feature on the Treo twice. It was poor quality. Forwarding texts has no interest to me. Voice memo and LED notification will come, but they're not important to me.

    What I don't understand is that if they are deal breakers for anyone, why it wasn't noticed within those first 30 days?
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dvigilante1 View Post
    For those that are saying the pre is an excellent phone out of the box please remove all homebrew aops and other tweaks you probably made on your phone since palm will get around to meeting your needs. Oh and be sure not to download 1.2 when it finally arrives.
    That's a fabulous argument...

    One of the cool things about the Pre is the fact that it is so easy to update and tweak. MOST of the problems I have with the phone have been alleviated with homebrew.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leke View Post
    The comparison is that it's a "product" that consumers buy. Different brands different models just like cells phones, with different features. We can all agree it's suppose to transport you from A to B right, Basic feature right?

    But if this product lacks this "basic" feature would you still stick with it because your such a fan of their product? Or voice your concern?

    This is one of he main reasons palm was in trouble in the first place, and one of the main reasons Ford and GM are a hurting company...

    Well my main point was, in my case, for example, I have been through eight pres, not because they lack a feature, but because they were defective,but I am willing to keep replacing them because I love the product
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    The OP essentially said those who complain about the Pre are trolls. That's the same as saying they're lying. That's insulting at best.
    ...
    Guess I missed that, or maybe that was your interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    ...
    That this forum has lost much of the civility that existed on TreoCentral is certainly true. Blame can be attributed to those on all sides of the discussion, but I've never been attacked for being critical of a piece of hardware like I have been on this forum. There's a substantial number of folks who seem to be new to Smartphones, who think the Pre is God's gift to them, and who will brook no criticism of the device. And who seem to take any criticsm of their chosen phone as criticism of themselves, personally.

    The average mental age of these people seems to be about 12. PreCentral reminds me of nothing as much as the iPHone fan forums. The same intolerance for criticism of the device, the same tendency to take everything personnally, the same inability to understand it's just a phone.

    While people certainly disagreed about things on TreoCentral, most were mature enough to understand that criticsm of the phone wasn't criticism of the owner, and that different people had different needs of their phone. That maturity is strongly lacking here.
    So, would you charactarize the "mental age" statement as a personal attack similar to the one you are accusing the OP of?

    FWIW, I've never been attacked for defending my choice of a piece of hardware like I have on this forum either.
  9. Leke's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by ericmn1 View Post
    Personally, I donít think the argument ďalot of people are not realizing when they say get another phone that people moved to sprint, or upgraded to the pre. So now they are stuck.Ē really stands up. Sprint has a 30 day policy regarding testing out any handset. I have been with Sprint for a long time and have had many phones including several smartphones. I buy a phone run it through the paces for a week or two and see if I like the interface and overall functionality of the phone. If I donít like it I return it (Motorola Q I am looking at you!). Itís really pretty simple. I bought the Palm Pre knowing it was a generation 1 phone. After a few days I realized it was missing some basic features, changing notification tones, visual LED notifications etc) I simply asked myself if any of those items were deal breakers. For me the answer was no, they are small things that I know will be remedied at some point. WebOS, even with some missing features is a great OS and will just continue to get better. I came from a TouchPro and Windows Mobile canít hold a candle (in my opinion) to WebOS, yet has been around for years.

    At the end of the day if you had build quality issues I sympathize because itís not your fault, it a quality control issue. However; if people are whining because itís missing features you want and you feel so self important or entitled that you canít wait for Palm to develop them I have little sympathy for you. We all knew after we bought the phones what it had and didnít have. If you werenít happy with the feature set at that time of purchase it should have went back and you should have gotten a phone that met all your feature requirements. The Palm Pre doesnít save lives, it doesnít perform miracles, itís just a phone, a phone and overall a pretty good one I might add. For those who disagree that's completely your right and you have the choice not to own a Pre, but instead go with an Blackberry, Iphone, WinMobile or Android device. Get a phone that works for you. As the OP points out the Pre isn't for everyone.
    I'm sorry but your response still does not hold water. What smart phone have you encountered lacking these basic features we are voicing our concerns about? Did your touch pro lack those features? The fact that many ppl are angry that it was never including from jump street makes it a valid concern palm should take serious.

    The fact that you don't care for it doesnt make a difference in my life, but don't tell me to get another device as part of resolution. I can so see ppl like you make use of this feature if/when it finally becomes available for the Pre.

    I seriously can't comprehend how anyone can such fan boyz of a device that claims to be innovative yet still remain so archaic with the lack of such basic features like LED notifications
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    That's not my premise. My premis is that those people can't understand the things the Pre lacks, and hence don't understand why some are critical of it. If you've made a legit comparison (and I totally agree with you on WM) and decided your Pre meets your needs, great. But I think you can understand why others don't. An understanding the OP clearly lacks, or has no tolerance for.

    ...

    I totally agree with the above. But, to me, it seems those who "don't get" this the most are the newcomers to smartphones in general, the "pre-lovers" of the board. They seem absolutely convinced that because the Pre does what they want, then everyone else should be happy, too. And that if someone else isn't happy with the Pre, it's clearly their fault, and not the fault of the phone.
    Unfortunately, the person who made the quote you are referring to, didn't say what you are implying.

    Here's what he said:

    I don't know who in their right mind would think those were not important features...
    Even though someone else has pointed out, the person doesn't "know" him, the implication is clear. If you don't think those things are important, you must not be in your right mind.

    Note - he didn't say "I don't know who in their right mind, except former dumbphone owners, would think those were not important features... "

    The fact is that I, and many others, had previous smart phones, and those features are not important to us. That dispells your theory.

    It also shows, which was my point, that the personal insult blade is swingin' both ways on here.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Feud View Post
    ...
    I really can't read this objectively and not feel it's argumentative and pre-flaming (ouch, pun not intended) those who would disagree.

    I think I'm reading it much different than you are, I guess. Oh well.
    Maybe it's because you (and some others) put the emphasis on what we were reading in different areas. I'm using your quote here, but will put the emphasis elsewhere:

    "I wonder if it's a combination of trolls, fan boys or just smartphone users that just can't be patient for the apps come in for the pre?? Whether it's just people that wan't Palm to fail or that they just truly don't like the pre?"

    "I hear seemingly minor complaints "Oh Palm won't talk to me and give me updates everyday" or "The pre should have a trackball" or I wan't a kizzillion apps right now!! Whaaa! But seriously, maybe it's YOU who didn't do the research and just got the wrong phone? Whine, whine, whine, troll, troll, troll! I'm beginning to think that 10 pct have legitamate complaints, 20-25 pct of you are trolls, 50 pct love their pre (like me) and maybe 15-20 pct of you should've just waited or gotten another phone because it's not just the right phone for you."
    So, what I see is a guy that's saying some people that complain are trolling, and some just got the wrong phone. He's right.

    I don't agree with his numbers, but he said 20-25 are trolls, and another 15-20 pct probably should have just gotten another phone. He didn't even say most are trolls, he said 20-25%.

    I think that number is high, in count of people. I don't think it's high in count of posts.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leke View Post
    At the same time there are basic features a phone should have if you want to now be categorized as a smart phone. I think many ppl here are too much of fan boyz to realise that.
    ...
    This is the type of post I'm talking about. Who on here said that these weren't personal attacks.

    Yawn....
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dvigilante1 View Post
    ...
    Compare the treo 650 released in 2004 to the pre. It had the ability to download images for browser, full copy paste function, full featured PIM suite (calendar, tasks,memos), camera, and camcorder out of the box. Remember this is back in 2004.
    ...
    I do hope you realize that the 650 was not the first gen of the Treo. There's no desktop functionality by design. I never cared for the camcorder function (I hated trying to get it in some sort of format that I could use somewhere besides the phone).

    The Pre is what it is. Those that don't like what it is now, should either get something else, or wait.

    There are some that are quite please with what it is now, and now that it will become even more, likely without having to buy a new device.

    It's really that simple.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leke View Post
    I'm sorry but your response still does not hold water. What smart phone have you encountered lacking these basic features we are voicing our concerns about? Did your touch pro lack those features? The fact that many ppl are angry that it was never including from jump street makes it a valid concern palm should take serious.

    The fact that you don't care for it doesnt make a difference in my life, but don't tell me to get another device as part of resolution. I can so see ppl like you make use of this feature if/when it finally becomes available for the Pre.

    I seriously can't comprehend how anyone can such fan boyz of a device that claims to be innovative yet still remain so archaic with the lack of such basic features like LED notifications
    Wow you just don't get it.... I UNDERSTAND that you are frustrated/angry that the pre is missing "basic features". My post specifically stated that I also was aware that the Pre was missing some basic features that my prior phone had. I made a personal decision to wait for Palm to add those features at a later date rather then revert to another phones because overall the Pre and WebOS were polished enough for me to stick with. I am not a "fan boy" of Palm. Personally I have had many brands of phones over the years and currently I find WebOS to be the most innovative OS again this is my opinion.

    You, just like me bought the Pre and used it if you didn't like the feature set it came with then why did you keep it? If it didn't suit your needs at the time you should have returned it.You can't buy a device based on what might be in development or what might show up next week or next year. I am not telling you to buy a new device. I am saying that if your not happy with the features of the Pre you have the right to buy a new device that has the features you want. Why wouldn't you want a phone with all the features you desire and its clear that the Pre doesn't for you. People have become so self entitled in this country that they think they should have everything they want right now and if they can't then they complain.

    Also you are correct when Palm releases new features I will of course use many of them. The difference is I am not in here complaining about what features the Palm hasn't given me. Oh the horror and hardship of not being able to change my notification sounds. Its devastating (please note the sarcasm)

    Next time buy a phone based on the features it has from day one and not based on features you think it should have or hope that it will have someday.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to write this perfectly. I've been trying to tell these (Pre fanatic) people all over this forum that they really don't know what a true smartphone is and I, for one, am sick of being knocked for it. I've been with Sprint for at least 10 yrs, and i never had to join a forum due to disgust from a phone before the Pre.
    Thank you Palm.
    P.S. - and b4 anybody tells me to get another phone, just think first about why ur missing the WHOLE point.
    Hmmm, let's see, here's what I've had in PIMs and smartphones.

    Palm III -> Palm IIIx -> TRG Pro -> Handera 330 -> Sony Clie NX -> Treo 270 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755p -> Centro -> Treo 755p -> Pre (and only one ... so far)

    So, does that make me qualified to decide what constitutes a "true smartphone".

    More importantly, does it qualify me to decide what I wand and need in one?

    This post (I believe) shows exactlyb what the OP was talking about, and why he/she has so many thank you's on the opening post.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dvigilante1 View Post
    For those that are saying the pre is an excellent phone out of the box please remove all homebrew aops and other tweaks you probably made on your phone since palm will get around to meeting your needs. Oh and be sure not to download 1.2 when it finally arrives.
    Why?
    Are you saying we should remove the things that made an excellent phone better? Are you ignoring the fact that some of recognized that the ability to update the phone is what made it better?

    Should we extend your arguement to our computers, and remove every additional piece of software that we've added?

    I'm not quite following your anti-Pre logic here...
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leke View Post
    I'm sorry but your response still does not hold water. What smart phone have you encountered lacking these basic features we are voicing our concerns about? Did your touch pro lack those features? The fact that many ppl are angry that it was never including from jump street makes it a valid concern palm should take serious.

    The fact that you don't care for it doesnt make a difference in my life, but don't tell me to get another device as part of resolution. I can so see ppl like you make use of this feature if/when it finally becomes available for the Pre.

    I seriously can't comprehend how anyone can such fan boyz of a device that claims to be innovative yet still remain so archaic with the lack of such basic features like LED notifications
    What kind of a dumba** buys a phone that's missing features that he/she considers basic and/or critical?? And then gets "angry" about it? That's just stupid.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    P.S. - and b4 anybody tells me to get another phone, just think first about why ur missing the WHOLE point.
    It's very difficult for me to understand why getting a different phone isn't an entirely plausible alternative for you. The Pre is what it is--no more, no less. If it doesn't fit your needs, then which seems more productive: complaining about how Palm hasn't yet added whatever feature you want (regardless of whether you consider it "basic" or "standard" or whatever), or simply returning it and getting something that _does_ meet your needs?

    Certainly you realized that the Pre wasn't for you within the 30 days you were generously granted to come to such a realization?

    What bugs me isn't people making constructive criticisms of the phone. It's people who say the phone "sucks" and Palm "sucks" and Sprint "sucks" because the phone can't do X, Y, or Z.

    I mean, please, consider the following:

    "...i never had to join a forum due to disgust from a phone before the Pre."

    "disgust from a phone"? Really? And that's just someone pointing out the Pre's flaws? I don't think so: it's just not pleasant to read, and detracts from the general environment of the forum.

    Let me ask all of you folks this question: if you're at a movie, and you really, really aren't enjoying it, what do you do? Do you yell and complain about it during the movie, thus interrupting the movie for everyone else in the theater? Or do you simply leave quietly, and ask the manager for your money back?
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    That this forum has lost much of the civility that existed on TreoCentral is certainly true. Blame can be attributed to those on all sides of the discussion, but I've never been attacked for being critical of a piece of hardware like I have been on this forum. There's a substantial number of folks who seem to be new to Smartphones, who think the Pre is God's gift to them, and who will brook no criticism of the device. And who seem to take any criticsm of their chosen phone as criticism of themselves, personally.

    The average mental age of these people seems to be about 12. PreCentral reminds me of nothing as much as the iPHone fan forums. The same intolerance for criticism of the device, the same tendency to take everything personnally, the same inability to understand it's just a phone.

    While people certainly disagreed about things on TreoCentral, most were mature enough to understand that criticsm of the phone wasn't criticism of the owner, and that different people had different needs of their phone. That maturity is strongly lacking here.

    Warning:
    Overly exhaustive long post to follow...

    Here is some history of my concern:

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    None of the other forums I spend time on have the level of ****** idiocy and insult, or the attack dog mentality, of this one. This has become at least as bad as any of the iPhone forums, maybe worse. Someone asks a legitimate question about one of the Pre's less than stellar features, and the ******* come flying out of their closets, foaming at the mouths, ready to attack.

    Compare the Pre to some other phone, and acknowledge the simple truth that, in some ways, the Pre isn't better, and expect the rabid ones to attack.

    Heck, anything less than a love poem is going to get someone calling you a troll. This place is rapidly becoming a laughing stock. I'm not, in general, a fan of heavy-handed moderation of forums, but I hope the moderators start clamping down on some of the attack dogs before the users who are here for information start looking elsewhere. Of course, if that happens, then the ******* can hang around telling each other how wonderful they all are.
    I'd like to thank you for your insightful post.
    I am legitimately concerned.

    I'm especially concerned how quick ones will call someone a troll - it's wrong.
    If the person is genuinely a troll then the post should be reported so staff can review it. Actually, if the person is truly trolling, a reply is of no help and is also a forum violation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Guidelines
    Personal Attacks - Do not flame, insult, or post a personal attack against another. Be courteous, not rude. Do not troll or respond to trolls. Posters adding on to the same flaming or insulting post can earn the same infraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    This will be the third time I've posted the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I'm especially concerned how quick ones will call someone a troll - it's wrong.
    If the person is genuinely a troll then the post should be reported so staff can review it. Actually, if the person is truly trolling, a reply is of no help and is also a forum violation:
    Personal Attacks - Do not flame, insult, or post a personal attack against another. Be courteous, not rude. Do not troll or respond to trolls. Posters adding on to the same flaming or insulting post can earn the same infraction.
    Respect others - Be courteous to other forum members.... Be tolerant of those who disagree with your opinion and discuss differences in a constructive manner. Personal attacks or name calling will not be tolerated.
    Please stop calling others Troll or F a nboy Ė Please!
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I just deleted a bunch of useless back and forth exchanges.

    I am really tired of people calling people with the slightest complaint a troll.

    If the person is genuinely a troll then the post should be reported so staff can review it. Actually, if the person is truly trolling, a reply is of no help and is also a forum violation:
    Here's a post I made in reply to a member apologizing for other members attacking him:
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Whether it's agitation in ones personal life or otherwise, staff is very concerned about the aggression/meanness that has been present recently.

    We all need to lighten up

    Peace, Love, and Led Zeppelin.

    Though this Thread is related to the Pre, its became more about the people's reaction, good or bad, and the name calling that follows.

    meyerweb is correct in his concern.
    I don't remember near the name calling (Troll or Fan-boy)

    We could post that our 650 was in a constant reset loop, and someone wouldn't jump down your throat calling you a Troll.
    But we still loved our 650's

    I honestly believe the majority are just totally loving their Pre and feel they have one of the best smartphones ever. I also believe many aren't totally content. I also believe some are on their 3rd, 4th, etc..

    So we have different members having different experiences, neither one needs/deserves to be attacked, ridiculed, or called names.

    I'm not trying to sound over authoritative, but it can't continue.

    The Pre has caused a huge influx of new members. Let's set the pace by keeping our discussions civil.

    Thanks,
    Berd
    Just call me Berd.
  20. #80  
    You know, voicing what you believe to be a legitimate concern and then being told that you are a troll, Apple ******* or a malcontent who just wishes Palm would fail is getting pretty old. Likewise, people who constantly whine about other people's whining lost it's entertainment value long ago.

    It's been said elsewhere in these forums that while the Pre is a 1.0 device, Palm is not a 1.0 company. Palm has been producing high quality, feature laden devices for some time now, and it's not out of line for some early adopters to wonder why basic features are still missing. Features like a working cut/copy/paste system, native support for Yahoo and Windows Messenger or Voice Dialing.

    Don't tell me I should have done more research, I knew the phone was missing these functions when I bought it, I just didn't realize that fact would be ignored this long. Don't tell me how long it took the iPhone to get cut and paste capability, I don't care what an iPhone can and can't do. Don't accuse me of being an Apple/BB/Android *******, I don't own any of those, and I'm not comparing the Pre to those. Don't tell me to be patient, I'm not so much impatient as I am concerned.

    Concerned with what I see to be distressing business decisions that Palm has made recently. Concerned about the public ****ing contest with Apple about iTunes sync. Concerned about alienating your user base by delaying a major release to patch the iTunes sync issue, or, if that's not what's happening, allowing the perception that it is to continue. Concerned about the incomprehensible commercials for the Pre. Concerned that half the Pre's out there twist like Chubby Checker on a Saturday night. Concerned that somebody high enough in the company thought "Pixi" was a good name for their new device.

    I'm not here to threaten that if Palm doesn't immediately address my pet peeves I'll switch to another device. I'm in this for the long haul, or until my contract is up, anyway.

    I love my Pre. I love the interface. I love the potential it represents. I love that Palm embraces the dev community, and makes tools available to support them.

    I hate that this device may die on the vine before ever realizing its potential because of bad press for relatively minor shortcomings.

    I could wish for video recording, or text message forwarding, or a faster calendar. These are all nice features that I'm sure the Pre will someday have, and I'm willing to wait for them to arrive. On the other hand, the lack of native clients for the two most popular Instant Messaging services is glaring, and should have been remedied in the first update. Ditto voice dialing. Ditto a (functional) cut and paste. Ditto email search capabilities.

    The silence from Palm is deafening. All we know for sure is that 1.2, when it is finally released, will fix the iTunes sync issue. hooray.
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