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  1. gbp
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Your information is dated - Verizon's 4G will reach 100 million in 2010 (Link) - unless you think 100 million subscribers = a test.
    From the sale article

    "In his PCIA talk this week, Melone sought to scotch rumors that his firm's LTE rollout is falling behind schedule. In the interview, he maintained that deployment is on schedule. The firm, however, hasn't yet given specific dates on its nationwide deployment, but it has pledged it will happen in 2010 in 25 to 30 markets. The company will seek to have the service available for some 100 million POPs (points of presence) in 2010 and continue to deploy the network over the next two and three years. "

    The firm, however, hasn't yet given specific dates on its nationwide deployment, but it has pledged it will happen in 2010 in 25 to 30 markets


    I am not buying it. It will not be completed in 2010.
    Plus , where can I buy a LTE phone ?

    Nokia and HTC are making wimax phones for about two years.
    Verizon thinks it can outdo competition, but they are SlooooW.
    FIOS took forever to implement , and it still doesn't reach many households.

    Wireless towers are easy compared to cables, but they are not ready.
  2. gbp
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    This has been a strong possibility for a couple months now. First, we learned that Verizon is fast tracking 4G deployment for early 2010. Then Verizon execs stop bashing the iPhone at every chance and start paying it compliments. And finally, Apple starts publicly suggesting they are sick of AT&T. The analysts have dug into it even deeper than this. Anyway, I also agree that iPhone will probably hit Verizon in the spring or early summer of 2010.

    What that means for the Pre, who knows. But it would not surprise me if there was an exclusivity slant to the iPhone agreement, preventing Verizon from signing on other touchscreen phones for a while.
    So you think Verizon is getting iPhone and the agreement with APPLE is stopping them from selling Pre ??

    Its just not Verizon , even Dan Hesse said iPhone is the best.
    Carriers would support any phone if they think the phone can get them 24 months of revenue.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Actually Sprint is planning to go LTE just like Verizon and AT&T. The WiMax venture is more aimed at home broadband. That doesn't mean we won't see WiMax phones, but LTE is the path they seem to be on at the moment.
    I love for this to be true, but where did you get your information?
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    I love for this to be true, but where did you get your information?
    A lot of support for this comes from the fact that Ericsson is now managing Sprint's network. When Ericsson bought Nortel's assets earlier this year, it gained it's CDMA and LTE assets which include technology and patents. So they have a lot of toys with no one to play with?
  5. smnc's Avatar
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    Um, Nick, no offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. WiMax phones already exist is other parts of the world.
    There are a handful of specialty WiMax phones out, but not in any great quantity yet, and since the majority of major networks have committed to LTE instead of WiMax, it's looking like WiMax is destined to be a serious second class citizen.
    The only serious WiMax phone (semi)confirmed as of yet, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $is$ $the$ $forthcoming$ $Google$ $Android$ $phone$ $that$ $is$ $supposed$ $to$ $drop$ $next$ $year$.
    LTE is supposed to get phones from Samsung, LG, and possibly Nokia as well.
    I can see you're a supporter of WiMax, and I applaud that, but LTE is the upgrade path for GSM/UMTS networks, and that's pretty much the end of the story. 3GPP IS the global standard. And since 3GPP2 gave up on their own competing 4G standard, even most of the CDMA networks are committing themselves to LTE. I'm not knocking WiMax in any way, but I just don't think this is a race it can win.
    It will probably gain some acceptence over the next year or two, but ultimately, as LTE is rolled out, I think that will be the end of WiMax as a mobile phone service.
    However, I see great promise for WiMax as a back-haul technology, and for remote internet access as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Your information is dated - Verizon's 4G will reach 100 million in 2010 (Link) - unless you think 100 million subscribers = a test.
    Lets not be glib. Verizon will NOT have 100 million LTE subscribers next year. They will have 100 million points of presence. As of yet, there aren't even any confirmed LTE phones... yet.
    But AT&T are moving up to LTE, and so is the major shared Canadian CDMA network (Bell/Telus or Bellus). Vodaphone and T-Mobile are also committed, as are many other major providers.
    They're not exactly lightweights either.

    Other than Clearwire, most of the WiMax networks are ISPs providing internet access to remote areas, most of whom have no experience in the mobile phone business.
    Last edited by smnc; 09/25/2009 at 11:21 AM.
  6. gbp
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    #106  
    Wimax handsets are around for some time.
    I did not see any info on the LTE handset so far ( even a prototype)

    I am not sure how long it takes for the LTE handsets to become mainstream.
    My guess is two more years.
  7. efudd's Avatar
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Slayix312 View Post
    This is why I never understood why everyone thinks VZ is great. Sure their coverage is awesome and plans aren't bad but the single fact that they handicap their phone's WAY more then makes up for their pro's IMO.
    ...
    I hate verizon's crappy phone lineup and the way they tie the hands of the phoen vendor's.

    that said- verizon laughs all the way to the bank each and every month despite what you and I think. The vast majority prefer the quaility of verizon's network and their customer service as compared to the better phone options at the other 3 carriers. They eat sprint and t-mobile's lunch every day. The only reason why they dont kill ATT also is the i-phone.

    from a selfish perspective I hope the FCC steps in and greats something of a 'carterphone rule' (if i recall that was the name of the reuling that forced the bell system to permit any compatible device to be connected to the wired phone network). I wish I could pick the phone I want and put it on the network i want whatever the phone and network may be.
  8. efudd's Avatar
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Slayix312 View Post
    Depends on who you talk to. Everyone knows the iphone was first pitched at VZ and they turned it down which could be considered one of the greatest blunders in cell phone history.
    not necessarily. 1- they still do pretty fine without it.
    2- no one knows the cost to ATT for the iphone. We know that they subsidize the phone a bunch. Apple hold's all the cards so whatever they can force ATT to pay per phone they will. And we all know the major damage all the iphone people and their heavy data use has done to ATT's network- that they have been forced to make major upgrades to their data network.

    So att is paying X in subsizdies from Y the price apple charges them for the phone. Then ATT had to spend Z on their network to keep it from colapsing. If the price for subsidies and network spending per new sub is more than verizon's per sub strategy of handing out blackberries 2:1 and buying up alltell then it's not a slam dunk from a business persepective at all.

    And what does Apple do when their recent success is all built on people likely the iphone when the iphone becomes availible elsewhere? WHat happens in the future when the ATT iphone contracts are up and then sprint offers a newer iphone with cheaper monthly bills? All of ATT's gains would be hard to maintain.
  9. efudd's Avatar
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by xorg View Post
    However Sprint does roam on Alltel EVDO. I've done it many times in some areas.
    since verizon now own's most of alltel's assets there's not going to be much alltel left to roam on.
  10. efudd's Avatar
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    From the sale article

    "In his PCIA talk this week, Melone sought to scotch rumors that his firm's LTE rollout is falling behind schedule. In the interview, he maintained that deployment is on schedule. The firm, however, hasn't yet given specific dates on its nationwide deployment, but it has pledged it will happen in 2010 in 25 to 30 markets. The company will seek to have the service available for some 100 million POPs (points of presence) in 2010 and continue to deploy the network over the next two and three years. "

    The firm, however, hasn't yet given specific dates on its nationwide deployment, but it has pledged it will happen in 2010 in 25 to 30 markets


    I am not buying it. It will not be completed in 2010.
    Plus , where can I buy a LTE phone ?

    Nokia and HTC are making wimax phones for about two years.
    Verizon thinks it can outdo competition, but they are SlooooW.
    FIOS took forever to implement , and it still doesn't reach many households.

    Wireless towers are easy compared to cables, but they are not ready.

    No one said it will be completed in 2010- they said 25-30 markets covering 100 million. I beleive they say 2013 to completely cover where they have EVDO now. You think they Just keep making up numbers and telling analysts them that they have no intentions of reaching? There's laws against that with publically traded stocks.

    And exactly how many wimax phones on sprint are there? No one is planning on using wimax or LTE for handsets in the US anytime soon. I think metropcs is they only one that committed to have a 4g handset out in 2010.

    Verizon the wired telco and verizon wireless are 2 totally different companies. For one VZW makes money and gains customers and is NOT union.

    Beyond that they probably will piggyback on top of existing towers so there's no real major infrastucture to rebuild like rewiring your whole service area with fiber over twisted pair. It's all about how much money they intend to commit- Fios actually is whipping down here in NJ becasue they got a state wide franchise and committed a lot of money here. I beleive in 1-2 years they have covered about half the state and have commited to be basically everywhere in their footprint in another 1-2 years.

    So if vzw WANTS to get LTE kicking they can. Seems sprint has prodded them to catch up and so they will. It will take years to catch up to sprint and so they need to start next year in earnest or have a probelm on their hands.
  11. SharonW's Avatar
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    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Your information is dated - Verizon's 4G will reach 100 million in 2010 (Link) - unless you think 100 million subscribers = a test.
    I think Verizon p.a.r.s.e.s. (good lord, filter! fix this!) their butts off. He said nothing of subscribers, but POP's.

    The firm, however, hasn't yet given specific dates on its nationwide deployment, but it has pledged it will happen in 2010 in 25 to 30 markets. The company will seek to have the service available for some 100 million POPs (points of presence) in 2010 and continue to deploy the network over the next two and three years.
    This is all just hype right now. WiMax is here and expanding.
  12. SharonW's Avatar
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by smnc View Post
    There are a handful of specialty WiMax phones out, but not in any great quantity yet, and since the majority of major networks have committed to LTE instead of WiMax, it's looking like WiMax is destined to be a serious second class citizen.
    The only serious WiMax phone (semi)confirmed as of yet, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $is$ $the$ $forthcoming$ $Google$ $Android$ $phone$ $that$ $is$ $supposed$ $to$ $drop$ $next$ $year$.
    LTE is supposed to get phones from Samsung, LG, and possibly Nokia as well.
    I can see you're a supporter of WiMax, and I applaud that, but LTE is the upgrade path for GSM/UMTS networks, and that's pretty much the end of the story. 3GPP IS the global standard. And since 3GPP2 gave up on their own competing 4G standard, even most of the CDMA networks are committing themselves to LTE. I'm not knocking WiMax in any way, but I just don't think this is a race it can win.
    It will probably gain some acceptence over the next year or two, but ultimately, as LTE is rolled out, I think that will be the end of WiMax as a mobile phone service.
    However, I see great promise for WiMax as a back-haul technology, and for remote internet access as well.


    Lets not be glib. Verizon will NOT have 100 million LTE subscribers next year. They will have 100 million points of presence. As of yet, there aren't even any confirmed LTE phones... yet.
    But AT&T are moving up to LTE, and so is the major shared Canadian CDMA network (Bell/Telus or Bellus). Vodaphone and T-Mobile are also committed, as are many other major providers.
    They're not exactly lightweights either.

    Other than Clearwire, most of the WiMax networks are ISPs providing internet access to remote areas, most of whom have no experience in the mobile phone business.
    Yeah, I familiar with all the usual arguments. However, I think both Verizon and AT&T are hard-pressed right to make the enormous investment even as much as they puff out their chests about it. They're going to have a pricing war on their hands for existing services. AT&T isn't even going to test anything until 2011.

    I've seen this all before with the 3G roll-out. Ridiculous time-schedules that never came to fruition. Heck, AT&T is STILL working on their 3G network. What I do know is that WiMax is here now and working and much of the world is embracing it.

    Moreover, it may get a shot in the arm from the administration considering one of Obama's goals is to get broadband everywhere in the U.S. Like you said, WiMax is perfect for reaching remote areas of which there are many in the U.S. that are completely under-served.
  13. efudd's Avatar
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    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    ...
    WiMax is here and expanding.

    I think the problem with this is that HD-DVD could have said the same thing just 2 years ago and look at where that is now?

    Before that nextel could argu that they had Iden while everyone else was playing around with their IP push to talk. How's that work out for nextel and sprint.

    Sony probably could have made that statement 10 times over- betamax, digital 8, umpc (that's what they call those disks- right?), memory sticks (whatever they call their NOT SD format)....

    first and even BETTER doesn't mean anything in the end. It's more complex than that.

    For me 4 G means nothing until they can stick it on a phone I can (and want to) use. I could care less about netbooks and laptop dongles- i just dont travel that much so twice a year when i need it I can teather my laptop. By the time there's piles of phones to pick from verizon, metropcs, and maybe even ATT will be in the game. If Sprint has something compelling than I'll care about wimax if not then I'll be in the LTE pile.

    for me having a network that i have no plans to use anytime soon becasue there aren't any devices i want to use on it is "all just hype right now."

    edit- I DO think that Wimax could have a huge roll to play for rural broadband. At one point I thought sprint/nextel throwing away their local phone company meant that they thought they didn't need it anymore becuase wimax could suplant the need to have a last mile of twisted pair copper. In a perfect world maybe they could even figure out a way to do triple play to people's homes with wimax?
  14. gbp
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    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    No one said it will be completed in 2010- they said 25-30 markets covering 100 million. I beleive they say 2013 to completely cover where they have EVDO now. You think they Just keep making up numbers and telling analysts them that they have no intentions of reaching? There's laws against that with publically traded stocks.

    And exactly how many wimax phones on sprint are there? No one is planning on using wimax or LTE for handsets in the US anytime soon. I think metropcs is they only one that committed to have a 4g handset out in 2010.
    My point is Verizon telling analysts that they will make the dates. But in reality this will not happen.

    OTOH, WiMax phones are out in the world, NOKIA 8100 Wimax Edition and HTC Winmax phone are around for the last two years.

    Can you show me one device that is capable of LTE ( one that has LTE radio in it ).

    It will be least 2 plus years before we mortals get our hands on the LTE phones.
  15. #115  
    Just in case anyone missed it, there is now a story on the front page of precentral (as well as other gadget sites) stating that the rumor is probably false.
  16. gbp
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    Yeah, I familiar with all the usual arguments. However, I think both Verizon and AT&T are hard-pressed right to make the enormous investment even as much as they puff out their chests about it. They're going to have a pricing war on their hands for existing services. AT&T isn't even going to test anything until 2011.

    I've seen this all before with the 3G roll-out. Ridiculous time-schedules that never came to fruition. Heck, AT&T is STILL working on their 3G network. What I do know is that WiMax is here now and working and much of the world is embracing it.

    Moreover, it may get a shot in the arm from the administration considering one of Obama's goals is to get broadband everywhere in the U.S. Like you said, WiMax is perfect for reaching remote areas of which there are many in the U.S. that are completely under-served.
    + 1

    WiMax is here , and its real.

    Lets talk LTE when I find a phone that can work with it.
  17. #117  
    Verizon: LTE rollout to be 'as close to all-at-once as possible'


    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    My point is Verizon telling analysts that they will make the dates. But in reality this will not happen.

    OTOH, WiMax phones are out in the world, NOKIA 8100 Wimax Edition and HTC Winmax phone are around for the last two years.

    Can you show me one device that is capable of LTE ( one that has LTE radio in it ).

    It will be least 2 plus years before we mortals get our hands on the LTE phones.
  18. efudd's Avatar
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    #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    My point is Verizon telling analysts that they will make the dates. But in reality this will not happen.

    OTOH, WiMax phones are out in the world, NOKIA 8100 Wimax Edition and HTC Winmax phone are around for the last two years.

    Can you show me one device that is capable of LTE ( one that has LTE radio in it ).

    It will be least 2 plus years before we mortals get our hands on the LTE phones.
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    + 1

    WiMax is here , and its real.

    Lets talk LTE when I find a phone that can work with it.

    Oh- I get you that VZ if likely over confident. I also think clearwire is half full of it to their 2010 plans considering they apparently need to find another couple billion to fund their network in these crappy times. But obviously clearwire has a huge headstart so their BS is much less of a factor.

    But so what that there are wimax phones in the wild- can you buy one in the US and use it on sprint? Samsung and metorPCS say they will have an LTE phone at the end of 2010- I think that's half a load as well.

    The game is very early as far as handsets, lets see what happens. I hope that sprint does well for itself- choice is a good thing for us all. But I really dont see long term how it can compare to LTE IF (Big IF) LTE becomes as dominant as it appears to be aiming to. Seems every last (literally if articles on the net are in fact true) GSM carrier IN THE WORLD is going LTE. Add in to that Verizon and metropcs (CDMA carries in the US). And how much market share is WiMax for phones going to have? Nokia already doesn't bother making phones for CDMA will others bail on wimax IF LTE becomes even more dominant than GSM?

    Is a typical company going to invest time and research and development money into building a wimax handset that will only work on sprint, or will they spend those resources to build LTE phones that will work on ATT, Verizon, Metro PCS, and most of the rest of the world?

    T-Mobile is the wildcard in the US- seems they have no 4G plan today. Best bet for Sprint would be to get clearwire to make the deal with T-Mobile to also use wimax in the US. But that could be an uphill battle with T-Mobile's homebase in europe already also going from GSM->LTE. (presumably part of the reason VZW picked LTE wasbecasue their European minority owners also would go LTE).

    T-Mobile could perhaps say "OK here's the 2 billion you need but you know how you have been saying that you could just as easily go LTE and sprint was testing LTE this sprint? Maybe you should cut your losses today and we'll toss in an extra 500 mil to ditch wimax for mobile phone use". Stretch? Probably, but at this juncture how knows.

    Early on sprint started building GSM then abandoned that pretty early and built nationwide as CDMA and sold off the GSM assets. Wouldn't be insane to see a similar thing happen here where sprint/clearwire split the venture and intel, google, and the cable owners use wimax for fixed broadband and sprint rethinks their phone side of things with LTE.
  19. #119  
    Verizon is completely missing the boat lately. I just dropped their service for Sprint for the Pre, not that I would have kept it if the Pre was currently available with them right now as well. They may have the "better" network in my area right now, but the complete lack of higher end smart phones were the main reason that I left. They seem to cater to Blackberry and Windows Mobile these days, and both mobile OSes feel too restrictive to me. I had to completely hack WinMo to get it do seamlessly sync with my Gmail account, no native Java, and Blackberry screens feel too enclosed to me.

    This doesn't really surprise me though if Verizon did drop the Pre, it seems to be completely against their business model of "try to charge more for anything." I swear if they could find a way to charge their customers for turning their phone on, or recharging the battery they would. With the openness of the Pre and existence of homebrew, any block or filtering that VZW would try wouldn't last long. I hacked my RAZR phone back when I had it so I could plug it into my computer at work for recharging for the days that I forgot to at home, otherwise they wanted to sell a $30 Verizon branded USB cable that would work. Once I changed it, I could also manually manage my calendar, contacts, music, ringtones, etc...without having to buy their $50 bundle that would let me do it. My favorite was that I could also go to the Moto website and apply my own firmware patches, which when I stopped at the VZW store they were trying to calm another customer after telling him it might be several hours for the firmware to patch.
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    #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by ray1b View Post
    Exclusive: Palm Pre's Arrival at Verizon Shelved | Personal Technology | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com

    SUNNYVALE, Calif. (TheStreet) -- Palm's (PALM Quote) Pre phone isn't making the cut at Verizon (VZ Quote).

    Pre, Palm's premier touch-screen smartphone, which has been an exclusive offering this year at Sprint (S Quote), had been scheduled to arrive at Verizon in January. But people close to the discussions say Verizon has decided not to support the Pre.
    The move would be a dramatic setback for the up-from-the-ashes Palm story. The company desperately needs to secure more telco partners to sell its flagship phone. In addition to Sprint, Palm has named only Bell Mobility in Canada and Telefonica's (TEF Quote) O2 units in the U.K. and Germany as its exclusive partners.

    Reached for comment on Verizon, a Palm representative says the company has never named Verizon as one of its partners.

    If the snub is true, the move would also be a reversal of Verizon's position in May, when wireless chief Lowell McAdam told investors the Pre was coming in six months.

    Verizon reps declined to comment.

    Sources did say that Verizon could be more delicate about the decision and order just a small amount of Pre phones with no intention of lending much marketing support.

    The reason for Verizon's change of heart on Palm has to do with several factors, say these sources. The fact that the Palm Pre has not been the blockbuster in sales that it was expected to be is one problem. To date, Sprint's fading No.3 status has not been compelling enough to get the Pre phone sales over the crucial 1 million-sold mark.

    Another snag is that Verizon wants VCast, its applications and mobile media download service, to be featured heavily on its phones. This is in direct conflict with Palm's app store, according to these sources.

    And another factor working against Palm is that Verizon wants to focus its support behind new phones from Research In Motion (RIMM Quote) and Motorola's (MOT Quote) Google (GOOG Quote) Android effort, says one person who is familiar with Verizon's product road map. The thinking is that Verizon isn't eager to tie up its resources to accommodate Palm's WebOS software.
    There are a lot of stories disputing this one from thestreet.com. Here's just one: I don't think this is a done deal by any means.

    http://www.slashgear.com/palm-pre-still-en-route-to-verizon-says-insider-2858169/
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