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  1.    #1  
    So I've known about this since day one when I went nuts using my Pre all day and killed the battery, but I never quite knew the impact of draining the battery all the way until I actually timed it the other day. Granted this is not a scientific test, and I didn't even have a stop watch, but my method was pretty simple. My phone drained ALLL the way just as i was about to plug it in. Within 5 seconds of the phone turning off on me I plugged in the phone to my car charger. I looked at the clock and waited.... and waited... and waited... I'm sure most of you with Pres have seen it. There is a charging indicator on the screen and nothing you do could possibly get the thing to turn on even if you have the thing consistently plugged in. Approx 13 minutes later, the phone FINALLY starts booting. Took another 3 minutes or so to actually get to a usable state. Maybe others can understand this, but I can't figure out why a device can't immediately be turned on when its plugged in. It has a power source! What's the issue? This really bugs me since it's left me hanging a few times. I was in the middle of a conversation, or getting info or something, and poof... I'm gone for 16 MINUTES! Fortunately i don't have any important business contacts I have to use my phone for, otherwise, this could be a REALLY major problem. I'm hoping this is something they fixed in WebOS 1.2, but I don't really have any expectations for it. Hopefully someone at Palm can see this and add this to their list of important updates.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    but I can't figure out why a device can't immediately be turned on when its plugged in. It has a power source! What's the issue?
    same reason they tell you not to pull the battery... the phone should be shut down properly

    it waits long enough for sufficient charge so that if the power source is disconnected the phone wont shut down improperly
  3. #3  
    This actually happened the day I went into the Bell store to first check out the pre (about a week before I bought mine). The store employees always forgot to plug the phone in overnight to charge, so, when i got there to play with it, the battery died. So, he plugged it in, and tried, and tried and tried to turn it on so i could use it. no dice. Needless to say, he was quite embarassed by it. It made little difference to me. I did my research and knew that you have to be conservative with your battery in order to make it last. Plus, my nokia n800 suffers from the same issue, albeit, its not 13 minutes of waiting, but normally around 5-6 minutes.

    Just don't let it die. if you think it may, turn it on airplane mode and just hope it doesn't die until you can get to a charger.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    same reason they tell you not to pull the battery... the phone should be shut down properly

    it waits long enough for sufficient charge so that if the power source is disconnected the phone wont shut down improperly
    so you're saying it needs THIRTEEN MINUTES of charging for it to be able ot power down properly? I admit, I'm a software guy and hardly ever deal with actual hardware, but somehow 13 minutes does not seem to be add up in my head. 1 minute sure... 2 minutes maybe... maybe even 3 minutes would give the charge it needs if someone really does find it necessary to pull the plug after a few minutes, but 13 minutes? I'm sure even Palm wouldn't even begin to justify that. I'm sure this will be fixed eventually, but I just hope its sooner rather than later. Stressing about when my phone's gonna die on me and be unusable for 16 minutes is embarrassing in my book.
  5. #5  
    Well you self admittedly used a car charger which I find takes much longer to juice up the Pre vs AC charging
  6. #6  
    As was already said, the phone needs enough power to be able to do a proper boot/shut down or it won't even turn on. The phone runs on Linux, palm was smart with that safety feature. Think of it like yanking the power cord from your PC/Mac in the middle of boot up or while it was on. Bad juju for the OS. Heck, I've had the phone yell at me for not properly disconnecting from usb mode like a computer would! This isn't palmos/blackberry etc. Think of it like a phone running linux...wait...

    You get the idea. Palm just wants to make sure if you yank the power cord accidentally the phone will have enough juice to properly boot and shut down.

    CQ made a good point as well. I was on our family farm in WV for the weekend not too long ago. Zero cell service. I put the phone in airplane mode so I could still use the camera if I wanted at 11am and took it off the car charger at 100% charge. Ended up not touching the phone at all until 7:00pm and I was at 98%. That's pretty darn good standby if you ask me...
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    Well you self admittedly used a car charger which I find takes much longer to juice up the Pre vs AC charging
    yea, i thought about that, but even if it took a few extra minutes, would 14 minutes be reasonable? How 'bout 12? You could even say 10, and I still think that's absurd. Maybe if someone doesn't need their phone for 10-20 minutes tonight they can try this with standard AC charging. Personally I use either A) a car charger, or B) my touchstone. Either way, I think both will give about the same juice.

    As for the excuse that it needs enough juice to properly boot up and power down. I still don't see where 16 minutes makes sense. I could properly startup and shutdown my linux machine at least 10-15 times in the time it took me to get to a usable state on my Pre.
  8. #8  
    Did the same but my phone took less than 5 minutes to boot up.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    same reason they tell you not to pull the battery... the phone should be shut down properly

    it waits long enough for sufficient charge so that if the power source is disconnected the phone wont shut down improperly
    They usually say never do a battery pull when doing changes to the OS, like an update. The phone should be able to power up immediately if powered from a charger. I would like to hear an official answer from Palm on why they chose to handle it like this.

    It happened to me twice. Now I keep a charger in the car to avoid this.
    Follow Me On

  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syphon View Post
    They usually say never do a battery pull when doing changes to the OS, like an update. The phone should be able to power up immediately if powered from a charger. I would like to hear an official answer from Palm on why they chose to handle it like this.

    It happened to me twice. Now I keep a charger in the car to avoid this.
    The official word is, in order to protect the OS the phone needs to shutdown properly, it cannot do this with 0 battery or a battery thats been charged for 30 seconds... In order to protect the OS it wont boot unless is has enough battery to properly shutdown if/when the charging/powering source is disconnected or lost

    It's common sense
  11. #11  
    It works likes this:

    Power adapter provides modified voltage to charging system, charging system charges battery, phone runs off battery.

    So even though the phone is plugged in, the phone still has to wait for the battery to reach a certain level of charge. Intense operations on the phone can drain the battery faster than the charging circuitry can charge the battery (such as booting or shutting down). The phone waits until there is sufficient juice in the battery so that it doesn't completely drain the battery during boot.

    Think of it like buffering a YouTube movie before playing. If you don't buffer, the video might hang. If you don't buffer the battery on the Pre, it will probably drain before finished booting or during shutdown.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by KoukiFC3S View Post
    Did the same but my phone took less than 5 minutes to boot up.
    Wow, really!?! is that with ac charger, touchstone, or car charger? Mine takes 3 minutes just to boot after it decides it has enough juice (13 minutes later). I guess I really do need to test it out with an AC charger, but generally when my phone dies I'm in the car. I'd be interested to know how u possibly got it to start from complete battery drain in 5 minutes.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Mo View Post
    It works likes this:

    Power adapter provides modified voltage to charging system, charging system charges battery, phone runs off battery.

    So even though the phone is plugged in, the phone still has to wait for the battery to reach a certain level of charge. Intense operations on the phone can drain the battery faster than the charging circuitry can charge the battery (such as booting or shutting down). The phone waits until there is sufficient juice in the battery so that it doesn't completely drain the battery during boot.

    Think of it like buffering a YouTube movie before playing. If you don't buffer, the video might hang. If you don't buffer the battery on the Pre, it will probably drain before finished booting or during shutdown.
    I've already got a bunch of answers like this, and I still haven't disputed that need for a "buffer". I just can't even begin to imagine how 13 minutes is necessary as a buffer. Even if I had wifi, evdo, gps, push, IM and 20 apps running, after 13 minutes it'll have enough juice to do a proper boot and shut down 50 times over.
  14. #14  
    Perhaps the Pre is not for you if you are struggling so much with this issue.

    You will find, however, that a charger with 1 amp of output will charge a 'dead' battery' back to the point where the phone will boot up in 2-4 min. You can get car chargers with 1 amp output but they are not common.

    Enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    I've already got a bunch of answers like this, and I still haven't disputed that need for a "buffer". I just can't even begin to imagine how 13 minutes is necessary as a buffer. Even if I had wifi, evdo, gps, push, IM and 20 apps running, after 13 minutes it'll have enough juice to do a proper boot and shut down 50 times over.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by deparson View Post
    Perhaps the Pre is not for you if you are struggling so much with this issue.

    You will find, however, that a charger with 1 amp of output will charge a 'dead' battery' back to the point where the phone will boot up in 2-4 min. You can get car chargers with 1 amp output but they are not common.

    Enjoy.
    LoL, you're serious? Anyone that wants a Pre to be usable in less than 16 minutes after complete battery drain should not have one? That's ridiculous. I love my Pre (had it since day one), but there are little things like this that really makes me wonder about why they implemented certain things.

    The 1 amp charger idea sounds good. I'll definitely look into that. If the Pre truly has the ability to recover in 2-4 minutes, then I'll retract me complaint, but until I can actually see this happen, I'm going to consider 16 minutes the usable recovery time.
  16. #16  
    I drain my phone all the time and have never had it take that long to power back up!
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by bgriffin1497 View Post
    I drain my phone all the time and have never had it take that long to power back up!
    could you please time it for me, and let me know how you charge it back up? It's quite possible that its only me, but i've heard other complaints about this in other threads.
  18. #18  
    Well, the bottom line is this long lag is unusual for a cell phone. I've never had a cell phone that takes this long to be usable after battery drain.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    LoL, you're serious? Anyone that wants a Pre to be usable in less than 16 minutes after complete battery drain should not have one? That's ridiculous.
    Perhaps he was trying to suggest that people who can't keep their phone batteries from draining to 0 shouldn't have a Pre.

    Draining to 0 is known to cause damage to modern lithium batteries. You are getting bent out of shape because you are regularly doing something the Pre was never designed for, and getting upset that it takes a long time to recover from something it was never designed to experience in the first place. It certainly sounds like you've go the wrong phone to me.
  20. #20  
    Well consider a laptop battery that is connected to a power source: immediately it turns on when connected to a power supply. How come a pre needs more than 5 minutes even? I've sat for 25 minutes from time to time on a touchstone, waiting for my pre to boot.

    Obviously then, this issue gets to the point that the pre battery could hold up a little longer, or be bigger for that matter, because the fact is that the pre's battery will die within a medium to hardcore-user's 12 hour day.
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