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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    Perhaps he was trying to suggest that people who can't keep their phone batteries from draining to 0 shouldn't have a Pre.

    Draining to 0 is known to cause damage to modern lithium batteries. You are getting bent out of shape because you are regularly doing something the Pre was never designed for, and getting upset that it takes a long time to recover from something it was never designed to experience in the first place. It certainly sounds like you've go the wrong phone to me.
    I love my Pre, and have gotten many many people to switch to it, but obviously I'm not nearly as delusional about it as you. You're telling me a PORTABLE device with a BATTERY is NEVER supposed to get drained to zero? There's been a lot of justifications in this thread so far, and sure I can see where they're coming from, but to say that a cell phone should NEVER be able to drain to zero is quite shocking to me. I mean, I'm a pretty technical person, read a lot of tech forums, and program for a living, and I've NEVER heard something as extreme as you suggest. I can't imagine everyone's perfect about being able to charge their phone consistently. If someone doesn't have access to an outlet and/or a charger every now and then they should immediately consider getting a different phone? I sure hope Palm doesn't advertise this little "fact", cause my guess is they'd end up with about 2 customers. You need to rethink your conclusion.
  2. jcross22's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    could you please time it for me, and let me know how you charge it back up? It's quite possible that its only me, but i've heard other complaints about this in other threads.
    My battery drained completely while I was driving home last night, when I got back to my house I plugged it into the standard wall charger that comes with the pre, went to the bathroom which couldn't have taken longer than 2 minutes (no. 1) came back in my room, powered it up and after the 2-3 minute boot it was fully working.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    You're telling me a PORTABLE device with a BATTERY is NEVER supposed to get drained to zero?
    I am telling you that, and it's a well established fact. You in fact, can't actually drain the battery to 0 on most devices. Most WinMo devices will turn themselves off around 5%.

    If you drain the battery to 0, on any of the few devices that will even let you, you will damage the battery. If you don't believe it, go ahead and keep draining to 0, and enjoy watching your battery performance degrade a little more every time.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by itsyvonne View Post
    Well, the bottom line is this long lag is unusual for a cell phone. I've never had a cell phone that takes this long to be usable after battery drain.
    Would you please elaborate on what other cell phone it was that you have previously purchased, which runs on a computer operating system?

    Even on "older" smart phones that did not run on computer OS's, there were still plenty of problems with corrupted ROMs. Sure, corrupted files can occur from numerous different scenarios, but improper shutdown or failed boots undoubtedly never helped the situation.

    I will try and time mine tonight, I don't believe it takes a full 15 minutes to charge/boot from a dead battery plugged in to a wall charger. I just did it to mine last night (replacement Pre, new battery) and it was booting back up before commercials were over.

    Even if it did take 15 minutes to charge AND boot the Pre's OS (assuming an average 3 minute boot), you really think 12 minutes is an unacceptable amount of time to get the battery at an adequate level to Boot AND shutdown the Pre, one of the most battery draining functions of the phone? How long does it take to fully charge a dead Pre? I know it takes a wall charger about 30 minutes to take a Pre from 75% to 100%... sometimes I think it might even take longer than that. The phone is only asking for about 10% battery to ensure it can boot and shutdown properly to avoid any file corruption issues. Has anyone checked battery percentage immediately after it boots back up? I am curious if the phone waits until 5% or 10%. I really don't understand what is so unreasonable about that? Complaining about battery life or battery size, sure, but if anything I think we should be giving Palm CREDIT for implementing this safety feature. Of course that is just my opinion.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    I am telling you that, and it's a well established fact. You in fact, can't actually drain the battery to 0 on most devices. Most WinMo devices will turn themselves off around 5%.

    If you drain the battery to 0, on any of the few devices that will even let you, you will damage the battery. If you don't believe it, go ahead and keep draining to 0, and enjoy watching your battery performance degrade a little more every time.
    If this is true, then I would guess my complaint of having to wait 16 minutes is not nearly as bad as your assumption that the Pre does not shutdown before it gets to zero. If the battery does in fact degrade at that point, Palm better program the Pre to shutdown before it gets screwed up. I don't know what percent it actually shuts down at, but I would think palm wouldn't be stupid enough to kill the hardware if a user doesn't have time to charge the phone. I'm going to assume the people at Palm are smarter than that, but I could be wrong.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Centro85 View Post
    you really think 12 minutes is an unacceptable amount of time to get the battery at an adequate level to Boot AND shutdown the Pre
    Yes, no question I think that's unreasonable. It's a CELL PHONE first and foremost. Yes I bought a Pre for all the awesome functionality, but if it takes me over 15 minutes to make a simple phone call WHILE it's plugged into a power source, then yes, it's unreasonable and ridiculously embarrassing. If I was a businessman and I had to explain to a client that my cell phone died and I couldn't call them back for 15 minutes, I'd be extremely embarrassed. Not only that but I could potentially lose business with that kind of wait time. 10% battery life is DEFINITELY not needed for a shutdown and reboot. 5% isn't even needed. Maybe one day when I have an hour of free time I'll shutdown and reboot the thing 20 times and see how much battery life it actually takes. If anyone else has the time to do this, please share!
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by knickrox13 View Post
    Well consider a laptop battery that is connected to a power source: immediately it turns on when connected to a power supply. How come a pre needs more than 5 minutes even? I've sat for 25 minutes from time to time on a touchstone, waiting for my pre to boot.

    Obviously then, this issue gets to the point that the pre battery could hold up a little longer, or be bigger for that matter, because the fact is that the pre's battery will die within a medium to hardcore-user's 12 hour day.
    Laptops have a much more robust power system. You get a regulated power supply unit similar to a desktop.

    There's simply no room physically to build a power supply unit in a cell phone.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Mo View Post
    Laptops have a much more robust power system. You get a regulated power supply unit similar to a desktop.

    There's simply no room physically to build a power supply unit in a cell phone.
    A laptop should also take A LOT more power and it still doesn't take 16 minutes to restart when it runs out of battery life.
  9. #29  
    There may be a difference trying to revive a dead Pre when using the microUSB AC adapter vs. the Touchstone. My wife's Pre took forever to power up on the TS. I bet it's much faster using microUSB.
    Palm III > Palm V > Palm Vx > (Sprint) Kyo 6035 > Handspring Treo 300
    > Handspring Treo 600 Oct.'03 > Palm Treo 700P May'06 > Treo 755P Aug.'07 > Pre(-) June'09 + TouchPad July'11 LONG LIVE webOS!!!
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by schnoid View Post
    A laptop should also take A LOT more power and it still doesn't take 16 minutes to restart when it runs out of battery life.
    You're missing the point.

    1. A laptop has a fully functional power supply. You can remove the battery and run it from the wall adapter only. In fact, the external power supply combined with the internal power distribution system in a laptop can run the laptop directly from the power adapter WHILE charging a dead battery.

    2. The Pre has none of that. The Pre is a cell phone, not a laptop. It's external power supply is nothing more than an AC/DC converter with a 5v 1a regulator. It's internal power distribution system is nothing more than a battery charger.

    3. It's not possible to completely drain the battery in a laptop unless you go WAY out of your way to do so. The laptop will shut itself down before you drain the battery far enough to cause damage. The only way to kill one completely is to continue attempting to boot it up after it has shut itself down, or to short out the contacts.

    4. While it may be possible to drain your Pre completely, it does try very hard to warn you when your power level is critically low. if you choose to keep running it instead of plugging it in, that's your problem.


    You are comparing apples to oranges.
  11. zpoettker's Avatar
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    #31  
    There should be an option to start automatically after the pre finds a power source. There have been times when I'm talking to someone and I don't realize my power was so low.

    This could become a big deal one day.. Whether it's me or someone else, being able to call someone back right away after a dropped call could mean a business contract or being called rude for hanging up and not calling back. Granted, they should understand the situation, but it's still ridiculous to wait 10+ minutes.
  12. wodin's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Centro85 View Post
    As was already said, the phone needs enough power to be able to do a proper boot/shut down or it won't even turn on. The phone runs on Linux, palm was smart with that safety feature.

    If palm was smart they would force a normal shutdown at, say, 5% like WinMo does. This is just another example of an immature OS, and an example of something that will eventually get fixed if enough people yell about it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I LOVE my Pre, both for what it can do now, but especially for it's potential. Its already good, and has nowhere but up to go, assuming Palm can survive as a company.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    You're missing the point.

    1. A laptop has a fully functional power supply. You can remove the battery and run it from the wall adapter only. In fact, the external power supply combined with the internal power distribution system in a laptop can run the laptop directly from the power adapter WHILE charging a dead battery.

    2. The Pre has none of that. The Pre is a cell phone, not a laptop. It's external power supply is nothing more than an AC/DC converter with a 5v 1a regulator. It's internal power distribution system is nothing more than a battery charger.

    3. It's not possible to completely drain the battery in a laptop unless you go WAY out of your way to do so. The laptop will shut itself down before you drain the battery far enough to cause damage. The only way to kill one completely is to continue attempting to boot it up after it has shut itself down, or to short out the contacts.

    4. While it may be possible to drain your Pre completely, it does try very hard to warn you when your power level is critically low. if you choose to keep running it instead of plugging it in, that's your problem.


    You are comparing apples to oranges.
    LoL, i wasn't even comparing laptops to cell phones in the first place, i was just responding to your reasoning. I don't disagree with you that it shouldn't function the same as a laptop, but the fact that its much less powerful is reason enough for it to not take a quarter of an hour to start back up. As for your 4th point, Yes, you get a few warnings that you're running out of battery, but considering the phone takes 3 minutes to start back up, most people don't want to conserve battery power by turning it off. Yes you can put it in airplane mode, but that still might not necessarily save it from draining completely. The point is, you shouldn't have to worry about ridiculous things like that. There is no reason it should take this long when Iphones and Android phones don't have this problem, and they are based on linux and unix as well.
  14. #34  
    Why are people defending what the OP states was a 16 minute boot time from dead battery???
    Why defend that?!?! if in fact it took 16mins (i've never timed it,but it is VERY long)
    IT IS UNACCEPTABLE.PERIOD.
  15. #35  
    Well, some things.

    First off, it is impossible to drain a Lithium-Ion battery to dead-zero. Lithium-Ion batteries drained below a certain voltage are irreversibly damaged, to the point where they would never be able to hold a charge again. All modern Lithium-Ions batteries contain a small circuit inside the battery to prevent this very issue. See: Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Second, it is likely Palm requires the battery to be charged to a certain level before it attempts the startup procedure. This is to prevent the phone from suddenly turning off during a startup, which like any modern device could leave it in an unknown state. For some systems, a sudden loss of power while starting up is the perfect storm to cause issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  16. #36  
    I have seen some car chargers provide around 200ma of power for charging.... Computer USB ports only can deliver a maximum of 500ma. Wall charger is 1000ma. Not sure what the Touchstone delivers via induction.
    The Pre will recover faster with a higher charge rate, simple electronics.
  17. #37  
    I dont doubt the OP's experiance, but Mine is differant. I did not time it, but I am certain it was no more than 10mins before I was rocking and rolling again. There are alot of variables here......Maybe a youtube is in order?
    Either way I guess the issue can be resolved by having a spare battery in the car? I've had to pull it out once or twice now, always in crappy signal areas....I'd rather palm address the tower switching radio to conserve battery in the first place, than make a change to how much juice it needs to turn on...reguardless...lets hope they address both!.....
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  18. #38  
    This thread is still going?

    Summation...

    -Abide by the manual and keep your battery topped off for optimal life
    -Usb cables and chargers are cheap as heck ala monoprice so no one has an excuse for not having some form of extra charger at work or in the car (unless your car can't juice the charger, bummer)
    -Ebay also has insane deals... I just bought an OEM sprint Pre car charger for $4 shipped
    -The Ipod wall charger will also charge the Pre
    -Any externally powered USB dock will charge the Pre (unless its a serious POS)
    -Any USB port that is built to 2.0 spec will charge the Pre (unless you have a crappy mobo/PSU or over taxed USB hub)

    The fact that the phone needs to charge to a satisfactory level before booting isn't something that can be circumvented or changed... It can only be shorted by using an A/C power source ala Touchstone or A/C power brick to get the battery to minimum boot charge capacity...

    If you don't like this fact, go back to using a dumb phone that boots in 15 seconds and will run with a dead and/or no battery with just the power cord attached

    /end
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    -Abide by the manual and keep your battery topped off for optimal life
    yea, let me stop calling this a mobile phone and just have it plugged in 24/7

    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    -Usb cables and chargers are cheap as heck ala monoprice so no one has an excuse for not having some form of extra charger at work or in the car (unless your car can't juice the charger, bummer)
    I have a few chargers, but that doesn't help much when I'm not near a power source or can plug into it does it? Lets just say I work in a place where your phone isn't exactly allowed to be with u at all times. And really, I shouldn't have to be worried that I can't charge my phone for a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    -Ebay also has insane deals... I just bought an OEM sprint Pre car charger for $4 shipped

    -The Ipod wall charger will also charge the Pre

    -Any externally powered USB dock will charge the Pre (unless its a serious POS)
    i bought a lot of plugs on ebay... whats your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    -Any USB port that is built to 2.0 spec will charge the Pre (unless you have a crappy mobo/PSU or over taxed USB hub)
    I'm well aware, but as I said above... not always accessible.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    If you don't like this fact, go back to using a dumb phone that boots in 15 seconds and will run with a dead and/or no battery with just the power cord attached

    /end
    So you're saying my Treo 755p that started booting IMMEDIATELY when I plugged it in was a dumb phone... hmm, interesting. I realize it wasn't built on linux or anything, but 16 minutes as opposed to 30 seconds? This phone must be WAAAY smarter! I just love how you assume things about people and shoot down their complaints because you have the luxury to charge your phone 24/7. Personally I like to use it as a MOBILE PHONE and obviously there are many others that do the same. I'll throw a recommendation right back at you. How 'bout you use a landline, cause obviously thats all you use it for.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    This thread is still going?

    Summation...

    -Abide by the manual and keep your battery topped off for optimal life
    -Usb cables and chargers are cheap as heck ala monoprice so no one has an excuse for not having some form of extra charger at work or in the car (unless your car can't juice the charger, bummer)
    -Ebay also has insane deals... I just bought an OEM sprint Pre car charger for $4 shipped
    -The Ipod wall charger will also charge the Pre
    -Any externally powered USB dock will charge the Pre (unless its a serious POS)
    -Any USB port that is built to 2.0 spec will charge the Pre (unless you have a crappy mobo/PSU or over taxed USB hub)

    The fact that the phone needs to charge to a satisfactory level before booting isn't something that can be circumvented or changed... It can only be shorted by using an A/C power source ala Touchstone or A/C power brick to get the battery to minimum boot charge capacity...

    If you don't like this fact, go back to using a dumb phone that boots in 15 seconds and will run with a dead and/or no battery with just the power cord attached

    /end
    you are such an.....idealouge
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