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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Deck82 View Post
    It seems like this depends on the rep you talk to or the service tech. I also wonder if those that were unable to get the phone exchanged were going to Corp. Sprint stores or the 3rd party service centers. The touch screen went out on my buddies Pre last week and he went in to exchange it at a Corp Sprint Repair Center. They would not exchange the phone because he had "Quick Contacts" on his Launcher Bar and the battery percent tweak as well as new Boost logo. They told him he would need to have the phone back to factory setting before they could exchange the phone. So he brought it over to me and we ran WebOS Dr and the phone was then stuck on the "Select Language" screen since the touch screen was out but they did do the exchange once the phone was back to factory settings.
    Bring it back to factory settings, in other words, they didn't void his warrantee, they just wanted to make sure the mods weren't causing the problems. Amazing how that works, and makes sense, whereas this whole voiding warrantee bit doesn't.
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    You're telling me to do something I've already done, and then telling me I'm wrong because it doesn't match your specific criteria Loading 1.2 also wouldn't void your warrantee, as, if you were smart enough to know how to load 1.2, disable updates, you wouldn't go into a Sprint store if it wasn't working right, and going back to 1.1 is easier than loading 1.2. You have yet to actually explain why loading a Palm written OS will void your warrantee. Do you think a PC's warrantee is voided if a customer decides to run Windows 7 on it? You'd be wrong again if you did.
    1) Its warranty.

    2) Installing WebOS 1.2 at this moment would be installing unofficial software which could permanently damage your phone. That's why it voids the warranty. It doesn't matter that Palm made the OS, if it isn't meant for official release and YOU have it and it messes up your phone, they certainly aren't going to replace it under the warranty.

    This is really very simple. If YOU mess up your phone by modifying it, it would no longer be covered under the warranty because the warranty only covers MANUFACTURER ERRORS, not user error. That is the most basic way to put it. If you modify your phone and it starts screwin up, then it is user error, it is YOUR fault, and it is not covered under the warranty.

    So let me get this right.... you loaded 1.2 onto your phone, then went to a store and said "Hi, I uploaded WebOS 1.2 onto my phone and now it won't work" and they replaced it? Somehow, I would find that story hard to believe.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    1) Its warranty.

    2) Installing WebOS 1.2 at this moment would be installing unofficial software which could permanently damage your phone. That's why it voids the warranty. It doesn't matter that Palm made the OS, if it isn't meant for official release and YOU have it and it messes up your phone, they certainly aren't going to replace it under the warranty.

    This is really very simple. If YOU mess up your phone by modifying it, it would no longer be covered under the warranty because the warranty only covers MANUFACTURER ERRORS, not user error. That is the most basic way to put it. If you modify your phone and it starts screwin up, then it is user error, it is YOUR fault, and it is not covered under the warranty.

    So let me get this right.... you loaded 1.2 onto your phone, then went to a store and said "Hi, I uploaded WebOS 1.2 onto my phone and now it won't work" and they replaced it? Somehow, I would find that story hard to believe.
    How could it permanently damage your phone? You do realize Palm made the WebOS Doctor for a reason right? You would have to physically damage your phone for you to not be able to restore with WebOS Doctor. Software will not permanently damage it. Period. The end. Maybe you should learn a bit about the phone and how it works, and the WebOS Doctor before you spout off? If you mess up your phone, WebOS Doctor! It's amazing! Software is not permanent, hence the "Soft" portion of it. 1.2 only overwrites the OS, not the actual firmware/bios of the phone.
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    How could it permanently damage your phone? You do realize Palm made the WebOS Doctor for a reason right? You would have to physically damage your phone for you to not be able to restore with WebOS Doctor. Software will not permanently damage it. Period. The end. Maybe you should learn a bit about the phone and how it works, and the WebOS Doctor before you spout off? If you mess up your phone, WebOS Doctor! It's amazing! Software is not permanent, hence the "Soft" portion of it. 1.2 only overwrites the OS, not the actual firmware/bios of the phone.
    You're missing the point, and no one was every talking about WebOS Doctor but rather what would happen if you took it into a store complaining about it not working when the cause was user error, but ok. Whatever you say.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    1) Its warranty.

    2) Installing WebOS 1.2 at this moment would be installing unofficial software which could permanently damage your phone. That's why it voids the warranty. It doesn't matter that Palm made the OS, if it isn't meant for official release and YOU have it and it messes up your phone, they certainly aren't going to replace it under the warranty.

    This is really very simple. If YOU mess up your phone by modifying it, it would no longer be covered under the warranty because the warranty only covers MANUFACTURER ERRORS, not user error. That is the most basic way to put it. If you modify your phone and it starts screwin up, then it is user error, it is YOUR fault, and it is not covered under the warranty.

    So let me get this right.... you loaded 1.2 onto your phone, then went to a store and said "Hi, I uploaded WebOS 1.2 onto my phone and now it won't work" and they replaced it? Somehow, I would find that story hard to believe.

    1) It's "It's Warranty"

    2) Stop fear mongering and trying to scare people. Unless the software directly causes hardware errors, you'll be fine. You can't get official Sprint/Palm SUPPORT for unofficial software, but you won't have any problems with your hardware/manufacturer warranty. Please stop unnecessarily scaring people.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    You're missing the point, and no one was every talking about WebOS Doctor but rather what would happen if you took it into a store complaining about it not working when the cause was user error, but ok. Whatever you say.
    Your point is far fetched at best. Who in their right mind would go into a store and complain about a beta software not working? You know what I did when my beta 1.2 didn't work as I'd like it to? I submitted feedback, I used my full name in the feedback too, on the Palm website, told them I was running 1.2, and suggested some things that would make it better. A week later, I spoke to Palm on the phone about my speaker being dead, and my warranty was still in tact. Any other questions?
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy K View Post
    FOR EXAMPLE. if a someone were to buy a brand new windows computer and decided he didnt like windows, he wanted linux instead. then the guy wipes the hard drive and installs ubuntu. then he screws up and says "oh well the federal law blablabla protects me i can return it" IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY!!
    What are you talking about? I can erase my entire harddrive and still return the damn thing under warranty if it's a hardware or manufacturing issue. Did you really just suggest you can't take Windows off your computer?

    Bottom line is you don't void hardware and manufacturer warranties by modifying software unless the software directly caused the problem. It's a damn shame that so many people are so willing to give up their freedoms when it comes to technology.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by emoney_33 View Post
    What are you talking about? I can erase my entire harddrive and still return the damn thing under warranty if it's a hardware or manufacturing issue. Did you really just suggest you can't take Windows off your computer?

    Bottom line is you don't void hardware and manufacturer warranties by modifying software unless the software directly caused the problem. It's a damn shame that so many people are so willing to give up their freedoms when it comes to technology.
    It's the same way with cars. Modifications will not void your warranty unless they can prove that the modification caused the problem.
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Your point is far fetched at best. Who in their right mind would go into a store and complain about a beta software not working? You know what I did when my beta 1.2 didn't work as I'd like it to? I submitted feedback, I used my full name in the feedback too, on the Palm website, told them I was running 1.2, and suggested some things that would make it better. A week later, I spoke to Palm on the phone about my speaker being dead, and my warranty was still in tact. Any other questions?
    Who said anything about going into a store and complaining that beta software wasn't working?

    The fact of the matter is that you did not (as you implied you did earlier) take your phone into a store with WebOS 1.2 on it with complaints of the phone not working properly. And since that is what was being discussed, you e-mailing palm suggestions and calling a week later and getting your phone replaced because of a manufacturer defect doesn't really have anything to do with what was being discussed. You're like the Sean Hannity of this thread.

    I suppose you will tell me next that unlocking an iphone wouldn't void its warranty, or installing a leaked OS on a blackberry wouldn't void its warranty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    It's the same way with cars. Modifications will not void your warranty unless they can prove that the modification caused the problem.
    And this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Only if you go into Sprint (or Verizon, or T-Mobile, or AT&T) and say your phone isn't working properly and they find you have modifications on your phone that you made, they can say it is because of the modifications that the problem is happening and deny a replacement. Why? Because it would no longer be covered.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    Who said anything about going into a store and complaining that beta software wasn't working?

    The fact of the matter is that you did not (as you implied you did earlier) take your phone into a store with WebOS 1.2 on it with complaints of the phone not working properly. And since that is what was being discussed, you e-mailing palm suggestions and calling a week later and getting your phone replaced because of a manufacturer defect doesn't really have anything to do with what was being discussed. You're like the Sean Hannity of this thread.

    I suppose you will tell me next that unlocking an iphone wouldn't void its warranty, or installing a leaked OS on a blackberry wouldn't void its warranty?



    And this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Only if you go into Sprint (or Verizon, or T-Mobile, or AT&T) and say your phone isn't working properly and they find you have modifications on your phone that you made, they can say it is because of the modifications that the problem is happening and deny a replacement. Why? Because it would no longer be covered.
    If it's not working properly, and it has nothing to do with the OS, then a simple run of the WebOS Doctor would prove that. You haven't made sense the entire thread, and now, comparing me to Hannity, you're just trolling. I did go into the store with 1.2 on my phone, but you come around and spin it with excuse after excuse for why you're right, when you're wrong. If anyone is the Hannity in this thread, it's you. They cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, claim that software causes a hardware issue, like you keep claiming.
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    If it's not working properly, and it has nothing to do with the OS, then a simple run of the WebOS Doctor would prove that. You haven't made sense the entire thread, and now, comparing me to Hannity, you're just trolling. I did go into the store with 1.2 on my phone, but you come around and spin it with excuse after excuse for why you're right, when you're wrong. If anyone is the Hannity in this thread, it's you. They cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, claim that software causes a hardware issue, like you keep claiming.
    I never ONCE claimed software causes a hardware issue. Never even came close.

    But please, by all means, continue to live in your magical world where nothing you do to your phone can void the warranty. Oh, I'm sorry. Warrantee.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    I never ONCE claimed software causes a hardware issue. Never even came close.

    But please, by all means, continue to live in your magical world where nothing you do to your phone can void the warranty. Oh, I'm sorry. Warrantee.
    Maybe I haven't made myself clear. The WebOS Doctor alleviates any perceived warranty issues, because it makes it impossible to brick your phone. They were smart when they made it, and it's one of the first steps of troubleshooting issues. What part of this don't you understand? Do me a favor, if you want to keep arguing this, give me 1, and only 1, plausible reason, that has some actual merit to it, as to why or what software mods will ruin your phone, or void your warranty. Just 1. Please? Pretty please? No more hearsay, no more hypotheticals with minimal actual facts. I want some hard evidence as to something that you can do, software wise, that can void your warranty.
  13. #53  
    By the way, you mentioned permanently damaging your phone in this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    1) Its warranty.

    2) Installing WebOS 1.2 at this moment would be installing unofficial software which could permanently damage your phone. That's why it voids the warranty. It doesn't matter that Palm made the OS, if it isn't meant for official release and YOU have it and it messes up your phone, they certainly aren't going to replace it under the warranty.

    This is really very simple. If YOU mess up your phone by modifying it, it would no longer be covered under the warranty because the warranty only covers MANUFACTURER ERRORS, not user error. That is the most basic way to put it. If you modify your phone and it starts screwin up, then it is user error, it is YOUR fault, and it is not covered under the warranty.

    So let me get this right.... you loaded 1.2 onto your phone, then went to a store and said "Hi, I uploaded WebOS 1.2 onto my phone and now it won't work" and they replaced it? Somehow, I would find that story hard to believe.

    The only way you can permanently damage your phone is if you somehow damage the hardware, which software cannot do, and you cannot do anything on your phone software wise that can permanently damage anything. I've already covered this, I'm going around in circles and you're still just as clueless.
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    By the way, you mentioned permanently damaging your phone in this post:




    The only way you can permanently damage your phone is if you somehow damage the hardware, which software cannot do, and you cannot do anything on your phone software wise that can permanently damage anything. I've already covered this, I'm going around in circles and you're still just as clueless.
    Did I say permanently damage the hardware? Noooope. But you can still make stuff up!
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by pathymo View Post
    Did I say permanently damage the hardware? Noooope. But you can still make stuff up!
    True, that's all you're doing. You said permanently damage, you can't permanently damage software, unless you find a way to overwrite the BIOS. Just like you can't tear up a soft copy of a document, you can't permanently damage software, it's meant to be overwritten. I could go on my phone right now, delete every single file on it, turn it off, and run WebOS doctor, and it'd load right back up, and work properly. I could completely kill off the kernel boot image, and STILL reload it with WebOS Doctor. What you are saying, is impossible.
  16. #56  
    I had an original HTC Touch back in the day. Flashed it to hell with the "new" Touch Flo 3D ROMs, a much more significant change than simple "mods".

    I ended up selling the phone to a guy on Craigslist and didn't flash it back. He ended up calling me while he was at the Sprint store because they were having a hard time transferring it to his account. I asked the Sprint rep if they could just reflash it to stock and he said they could, but only under certain circumstances. After a few minutes, he said he would try some more things and call me back if there were any problems.

    I never got a call back. He took a completely flashed to hell phone, had repair flash it to the original ROM, and transferred the phone to the buyer's account. Kinda hard to believe they won't take something with "mods" back, but will transfer a phone with a completely different ROM.
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy K View Post
    well technically.... the OP did admit that it was his hacks and mods screwing the phone up.... so what the law says does not apply to him.

    FOR EXAMPLE. if a someone were to buy a brand new windows computer and decided he didnt like windows, he wanted linux instead. then the guy wipes the hard drive and installs ubuntu. then he screws up and says "oh well the federal law blablabla protects me i can return it" IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY!!

    i think you should really read it before you start posting up "proof". the word "modification" is talking about the warranty. the WARRANTY cannot be modified. not that "if you modify your product you can still return it." another example: you cant modify a car and then go back to the dealer and say its a lemon, when it was you that screwed it up in the first place, and then say its covered under the lemon law.... thats just STUPID!

    also, the warranty is at the discretion of the company providing it.... so if a company sells a consumer product without warranty, it is required that they say NO WARRANTY! warranty is not a requirement to sell a consumer product. thats why electronic stores sell deeply discounted items WITHOUT WARRANTIES! read lines (6) and (12)

    -STATUTE-
    (a) Full and conspicuous disclosure of terms and conditions;
    additional requirements for contents
    In order to improve the adequacy of information available to
    consumers, prevent deception, and improve competition in the
    marketing of consumer products, any warrantor warranting a consumer
    product to a consumer by means of a written warranty shall, to the
    extent required by rules of the Commission, fully and conspicuously
    disclose in simple and readily understood language the terms and
    conditions of such warranty. Such rules may require inclusion in
    the written warranty of any of the following items among others:
    (1) The clear identification of the names and addresses of the
    warrantors.
    (2) The identity of the party or parties to whom the warranty
    is extended.
    (3) The products or parts covered.
    (4) A statement of what the warrantor will do in the event of a
    defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with such written
    warranty - at whose expense - and for what period of time.
    (5) A statement of what the consumer must do and expenses he
    must bear.
    (6) Exceptions and exclusions from the terms of the warranty.
    (7) The step-by-step procedure which the consumer should take
    in order to obtain performance of any obligation under the
    warranty, including the identification of any person or class of
    persons authorized to perform the obligations set forth in the
    warranty.
    (8) Information respecting the availability of any informal
    dispute settlement procedure offered by the warrantor and a
    recital, where the warranty so provides, that the purchaser may
    be required to resort to such procedure before pursuing any legal
    remedies in the courts.
    (12) The characteristics or properties of the products, or
    parts thereof, that are not covered by the warranty.
    I actually never said the mods caused the problem. 3/4 of the problems are mechanical/design flaws. The 4th is the headset jack malfunction that could theoretically be software induced I suppose; however, I know many other people have experienced the same problem and it was a mechanical flaw with the actual jack.
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    #58  
    Oh, btw, an example from the Palm support forums:


    g0rey1
    Regular Contributor
    Posts: 172
    Registered: 06-06-2009

    Pre p100eww (Sprint)


    Message 65 of 81

    Viewed 699 times


    i'm sorry, i do NOT understand how rooting in any way invalidates the warranty. if i buy a computer and decide i want to get rid of windows and put ubuntu on it, the hardware is still the hardware and is still under warranty. if i purchase a device and do whatever the hell i want to do with the software, how does that possibly invalidate the hardware warranty (unless i purposely write an app to peg the proc & ruin the device with heat)? makes no sense, it's just another example of the company trying to handcuff its userbase. just wrong.
    Kudos!
    08-05-2009 07:47 AM

    Re: Root Access cygnusX1
    Tech Support
    Posts: 3629
    Registered: 06-26-2008

    Tungsten T5


    Message 7 of 9

    Viewed 226 times


    FYI, if you "hack" the OS of the PRE it will void your warranty.

    I am available Mon-Fri 8:00am to 5:00pm Eastern time. Please post your questions in the forums.


    But I'm sure the tech support guy has no idea what he's talking about.
  19. #59  
    Wow, some nice fireworks in here. I have what I think is a helpful example that might allow everyone to stand together and sing Kumbaya.

    It IS possible (and I'll prove it in a moment) for software to cause hardware damage. This seems to be the crux of the issue. If you modify the software on your phone, and are able to use webOS dr to put it back to factory settings and everything works except for the crack in your screen, then it seems reasonable that whatever mods you might have done to the software had nothing to do with the crack. However, if there is a good chance that the mod caused an issue, then it seems that you could be in trouble.

    Here's proof that software can damage hardware: let's say you recompile the Linux kernel to allow CPU speeds of 1GHz. You then run your awesome machine but notice it starts to get uncomfortably warm and finally it totally poops out on you. It won't turn on, and the Dr won't do anything for you. The Pre may have a chip that is capable of running at 1GHz, but it may not have the thermal capacity to deal with the resultant heat. So the CPU is fried. Software caused the problem. Your warranty ought to be voided.

    Because of the Dr, warranty returns should only exist for hardware issues, but there are some hardware problems that could be caused by software changes. The line between hardware and software is not so clean and sharp.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Wow, some nice fireworks in here. I have what I think is a helpful example that might allow everyone to stand together and sing Kumbaya.

    It IS possible (and I'll prove it in a moment) for software to cause hardware damage. This seems to be the crux of the issue. If you modify the software on your phone, and are able to use webOS dr to put it back to factory settings and everything works except for the crack in your screen, then it seems reasonable that whatever mods you might have done to the software had nothing to do with the crack. However, if there is a good chance that the mod caused an issue, then it seems that you could be in trouble.

    Here's proof that software can damage hardware: let's say you recompile the Linux kernel to allow CPU speeds of 1GHz. You then run your awesome machine but notice it starts to get uncomfortably warm and finally it totally poops out on you. It won't turn on, and the Dr won't do anything for you. The Pre may have a chip that is capable of running at 1GHz, but it may not have the thermal capacity to deal with the resultant heat. So the CPU is fried. Software caused the problem. Your warranty ought to be voided.

    Because of the Dr, warranty returns should only exist for hardware issues, but there are some hardware problems that could be caused by software changes. The line between hardware and software is not so clean and sharp.
    You did it before me. I was going to point out that a hack to use the LED flash as a torch could burn the LED if someone does not limit its use correctly. Just another example of software damaging the phone.

    A lot of phone softwares are much closer to hardware than typical PC softwares. I think people need to be aware of this. But once your Web Dr. it, it is hard for Palm support to know, so Palm do run a risk in someway that people may think it is a pure hardware issue and they cannot prove the phone has been hacked before.

    For people knowingly try to cheat, I think they only need to answer their conscience. Web Dr. was not designed for cheating.
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
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