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  1.    #1  
    According to the latest update on the Engadget Interview with CEO of Palm, Jon just said "We're on a web schedule with updates -- you'll see a steady stream of updates and features."

    R.I.P Palm Centro (6.5.09)
    New Pre Owner (6.6.09)

  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by Impulsebuyer View Post
    According to the latest update on the Engadget Interview with CEO of Palm, Jon just said "We're on a web schedule with updates -- you'll see a steady stream of updates and features."

    Still waiting for them...
  3. #3  
    OT: Chodaboy are you on the SR forums?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by chodaboy View Post
    Still waiting for them...
    Not sure what you're waiting for. I've been enjoying them.

    The pre has had a healthy number of small updates since release, 1.2 is due any time now, the app store has grown quite a bit and is rumored to be fully functional in the next major update, the homebrew scene is thriving, preware can now install custom themes in a blink.

    What exactly are you waiting for?

    Not directed just at you, but at a lot of folks around here - development on the Pre has moved at a fantastic pace compared to it's competitors. Battery life relative to device size, functionality and connectivity is fantastic. The openness of the WebOS platform and Palm's cooperation with developers has been legendary.

    So, again, what exactly are you waiting for?
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    Not sure what you're waiting for. I've been enjoying them.

    The pre has had a healthy number of small updates since release, 1.2 is due any time now, the app store has grown quite a bit and is rumored to be fully functional in the next major update, the homebrew scene is thriving, preware can now install custom themes in a blink.

    What exactly are you waiting for?

    Not directed just at you, but at a lot of folks around here - development on the Pre has moved at a fantastic pace compared to it's competitors. Battery life relative to device size, functionality and connectivity is fantastic. The openness of the WebOS platform and Palm's cooperation with developers has been legendary.

    So, again, what exactly are you waiting for?
    For Palm to call him up and offer him a super phone.

    Plus some features some people consider basic I guess, but that ruins my joke.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringer View Post
    For Palm to call him up and offer him a super phone.

    Plus some features some people consider basic I guess, but that ruins my joke.
    For the joke half, I think that a TON of people seem to be waiting for the same thing...


    As for the not so funny part, the list of basic features that people are missing is pretty short, and even shorter with the homebrew apps that replace some of them. The list of missing features is a heck of a lot smaller than the first iphone.

    I realize that there are common features that are still missing, and a lot of folks really miss them, but compared to the competition, they are coming pretty darn fast.
  7. ldj
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    #7  
    I think the problem is that as fantastic as the Pre and WebOS is, its missing a numbe rof basic features that my 10 year old Sony Erricsson p800 had! Yea, we know that's Apple's fault for making it 'acceptable', but for people who assume this basic features are present in a phone, its a kick in the teeth really...
  8. #8  
    To me, it's not a matter of apple making it acceptable, it's a matter of what is practical in today's market.

    Your 10 year old Ericson was just a phone. It could make and receive calls, and had some basic messaging capabilities and some junky games, and that was it. A device like the Pre is expected to do 1000x as much as a phone from 10 years ago.

    A lot of these "basic features" are quite frankly redundant on a phone that can send and receive email on the go. I know people don't want to hear that, but it's the truth. MMS is already on the way out, and SMS will be a thing of the past in a few more years as well I suspect.

    Why send an sms when it's just as fast to send an email, which will get there just as fast, and isn't limited to 160 char?

    Why MMS a photo when your phone can send your photos to flickr?

    To get the phone out on the market with all the functionality it has now, AND all of the other things that people are missing, it would have been in development for several more years.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    To me, it's not a matter of apple making it acceptable, it's a matter of what is practical in today's market.

    Your 10 year old Ericson was just a phone. It could make and receive calls, and had some basic messaging capabilities and some junky games, and that was it. A device like the Pre is expected to do 1000x as much as a phone from 10 years ago.

    A lot of these "basic features" are quite frankly redundant on a phone that can send and receive email on the go. I know people don't want to hear that, but it's the truth. MMS is already on the way out, and SMS will be a thing of the past in a few more years as well I suspect.

    Why send an sms when it's just as fast to send an email, which will get there just as fast, and isn't limited to 160 char?

    Why MMS a photo when your phone can send your photos to flickr?

    To get the phone out on the market with all the functionality it has now, AND all of the other things that people are missing, it would have been in development for several more years.
    Messaging 101:

    1. Email. Write as much as you want include attachments, let user read when they get to it.
    2. SMS: recipient is probably offline, message too short to have a subject and needs to get to their phone quickly and as soon as they have signal.
    3. IM: ongoing conversations with low latency.
    4. Updating your status to whoever is interested: Facebook, Twitter.

    Phones today are expected to do precisely what people learned they could do. They have the hardware and software to do it, and their use has become much more general, just like computers have. It's just another level of miniaturization.

    Sounds like you would be happy on the most basic Blackberry.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    1. Email. Write as much as you want include attachments, let user read when they get to it.
    2. SMS: recipient is probably offline, message too short to have a subject and needs to get to their phone quickly and as soon as they have signal.
    3. IM: ongoing conversations with low latency.
    4. Updating your status to whoever is interested: Facebook, Twitter.


    Sounds like you would be happy on the most basic Blackberry.
    First, let's compare 2 and 3. Have you seen the threaded conversation setup of SMS messaging on the Pre? What that shows me is that the only practical difference between IM and SMS is the interfaces we tend to use with them. I have most certainly sent countless IM's to people who were offline knowing they would get them when they logged back in. Several messaging apps have features that overlap with SMS, and yahoo can chat with SMS, so the line between the two is blurring just as the line between phones and PDAs has blurred to the point that it's hard to find a cell phone that is "just a phone" or a PDA that isn't also a phone. It's only logical to conclude that the line with continue to blur until there is no functional difference, especially with the proliferation of smart phones.

    #1 Is a bit different. Granted, emails tend to be longer, but they don't have to be. Also, while I realize I wasn't that clear, I was trying to compare email to MMS. If you recipient has a smart phone, email can do absolutely everything that MMS can do, and more, because you can also email that funny picture to you Aunt in Idaho (who doesn't have any cell phone and checks her email from the public computer at the library) at the same time you send it to your buddy from work.

    As for #4, I'm not really sure what your point is. I think everybody understand what Facebook/twitter/etc is and how they work, and anybody who doesn't understand, doesn't care. The Pre however, does a perfectly respectable job with them.


    As far as being happy with a base model blackberry, I have no idea what would give you that impression. The pre, even with the features that it is missing, is infinitely more capable than even the most robust BB. It's just that some things that the BB does through "traditional" phone apps, are done on the Pre through "modern" web apps.
    Last edited by VeeDubb65; 09/18/2009 at 02:49 AM.
  11. #11  
    You can't use email easily on a feature phone, and most don't even have a data plan. It's up to what the people you correspond with use. In the meantime you wait for everyone's tools to converge. It may look complicated to have separate protocols and applications for different ways of communincating but you don't know. Maybe a unified way of communication will be even more demanding of the phone, for example, Google Wave?

    But to the point of the thread, people develop expectations based on what they learn is possible. And there are many phones, albeit not as interesting as the Pre, that have the features you claim would take years to develop.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  12. #12  
    Here I think I actually agree with you, and it's not the first time cell phones have gone through this kind of transition, and it was just as messy before. I can remember having a "basic" phone and being annoyed when people kept trying to send me MMS messages, or them being annoyed that I couldn't receive them.

    Cell phones are rapidly evolving, even when compared to other tech areas. Right now we're in a phase, started by the iphone, where smartphones are finally starting to become far more common.

    The problem is that the ways of doing things that people have come to expect, may not be the most effective ways of doing things on a modern smartphone. As smartphones transition from a niche market like they were just a few years ago, to the primary market share, we will inevitably go through some growing pains.

    As far my "claim that they would take years to develop" you're getting my meaning a little wrong. They could have been developed and included on the phone at release, but then many of the features that make the Pre special and different would have been left out. As it is, there are a small number of advanced features like integrated messaging for something besides SMS, AIM and gchat that aren't included because they couldn't get the development done in time.

    There is only so much that can be developed for a new platform in a given amount of time, and every feature that you add at release means another feature that get's cut from the release.

    Regardless, we've gotten pretty far from the original point, which is whether or not there is a steady flow of updates and new features. As I said to begin with, we've had several small updates and one major update. The next major update could come out any time. The App store get's new apps almost weekly. New homebrew apps come out almost daily.

    The steady stream is there.
  13. #13  
    I agree that Palm has to prioritize. But there are quite a few gregarious examples of wrong priorities with the Pre.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I agree that Palm has to prioritize. But there are quite a few gregarious examples of wrong priorities with the Pre.

    Here we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Palm, for the most part, made some very smart choices about what to focus their efforts on.



    BTW, not to be an anally retentive jerk, but did you really mean gregarious or did you mean capricious?
  15. #15  
    The updates should be EXPECTED. Its Palm's flagship phone. There was much speculation this was going to be the phone that either made or broke the company. Palm needs to be all over this situation.
  16. #16  
    The one way I fault Palm is in failing to ensure that the essential PIM apps were at least as responsive and functional as they are on, say, my Palm TX, not to mention the Pilot 1000 I started with. It just feels like the designers of WebOS had never really used the products that established Palm's leadership. Shipping the Pre with no basic way to get editable text files on and off the device, and with a calendar that has a noticeable delay before loading the day's events, is an issue of priorities, not technology. {Jonathan}
  17. cgk
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    The one way I fault Palm is in failing to ensure that the essential PIM apps were at least as responsive and functional as they are on, say, my Palm TX, not to mention the Pilot 1000 I started with. It just feels like the designers of WebOS had never really used the products that established Palm's leadership. Shipping the Pre with no basic way to get editable text files on and off the device, and with a calendar that has a noticeable delay before loading the day's events, is an issue of priorities, not technology. {Jonathan}
    That's fairly likely, I see in one of the interviews with Jon Rubinstein that one of the first thing he did was replace most of the old department heads on the software and engineering side of the business. The organisation has no memory of making those original PIM apps. Even if it didn't, how many people at Palm would have worked on those apps anyway? They were 'finished' ten years?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    That's fairly likely, I see in one of the interviews with Jon Rubinstein that one of the first thing he did was replace most of the old department heads on the software and engineering side of the business. The organisation has no memory of making those original PIM apps. Even if it didn't, how many people at Palm would have worked on those apps anyway? They were 'finished' ten years?
    It's not about working on them, but rather working with them, that matters. If I'd been a beta tester instead of a Real Reviewer (and don't get me wrong, I love being a Real Reviewer!), the gaps in functionality would have been crystal clear to me in about 5 minutes, just as they were 5 minutes after I started to use the Pre when I finally got one. I only wish that Palm would have put core PIM responsiveness and function, and especially text management, above "make it look like an iPod to iTunes" on its development list. {Jonathan}
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    Not sure what you're waiting for. I've been enjoying them.

    The pre has had a healthy number of small updates since release, 1.2 is due any time now, the app store has grown quite a bit and is rumored to be fully functional in the next major update, the homebrew scene is thriving, preware can now install custom themes in a blink.

    What exactly are you waiting for?

    Not directed just at you, but at a lot of folks around here - development on the Pre has moved at a fantastic pace compared to it's competitors. Battery life relative to device size, functionality and connectivity is fantastic. The openness of the WebOS platform and Palm's cooperation with developers has been legendary.

    So, again, what exactly are you waiting for?
    Agreed that the Pre is a great phone. However, I am waiting on:
    1. OBDEX [BT File Transfer]
    2. Better BT support for Cars and Headsets
    3. Reception issue fix
    4. Medical Apps
    5. Video Recording
    6. Updated Google Maps w/ Street view

    I know that #4&6 are outside of Palms responsibility.

    #1&3 are key and should be fixed soon. With the whole Synergy concept it would seem apparent that OBDEX would be standard. Specially for this day and time. Wireless is the way to go. We should not have to use the USB to transfer files such as MP3, Docs, PDF, Pics, etc.

    I don't want to come off as bashing the Pre b/c I really enjoy this phone. I am only answering the question and offering ideas which I believe would help the Pre out tremendously.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    For the joke half, I think that a TON of people seem to be waiting for the same thing...


    As for the not so funny part, the list of basic features that people are missing is pretty short, and even shorter with the homebrew apps that replace some of them. The list of missing features is a heck of a lot smaller than the first iphone.
    Yada, yada, yada. How many times are people going to make this bogus comparison. This isn't the first iPhone, and it's not competing against the first iPhone. Compared to it's competition, even the old Palm OS Treos, the Pre is still missing a ton of features. I've listed a couple of dozen things my Treo can do that the Pre can't in other posts, so I'm not going to repeat it here. But trust me, the Pre is lacking things that are found in feature phones that the carriers hand out like candy when you sign a contract.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
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