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  1. s219's Avatar
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    #21  
    800K would be 25% of Sprint handset sales, seems unlikely according to an analyst.
  2. s219's Avatar
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    #22  
    Increase in volume in Q3 expected from additional carriers.
  3. cgk
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by montush View Post
    reading between the lines, Palm is saying Pre cannot maintain sales momentum into Q2 :-(

    Palm has a problem in that currently 90% of their revenue comes from one carrier in one marketplace. It looks like the Pre has been a solid but unspectacular launch for Spirit.
  4. cgk
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by bruba View Post
    5:19 Abramsky from RBC. How easy for WebOS to adapt to different form factor? We had unique oppty to develop Web OS and start with blank sheet of paper. Sticking with Palm's basic DNA, using advanced tech. Old Palm OS lasted 16 years. Designing WebOS to last for 10-15 years. Team challenged not just for Pre or Pixi, but for product designed maybe 3-5 years from now. For mobile devices and we designed it to not have limitations that would prevent us from having product development we may have in the future.

    That's great - if you sell the volume of devices needed not to go out of business or be taken over...
  5. s219's Avatar
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    #25  
    Call is over. I expect an analyst or expert who knows details about Palm and Sprint can probably put all the scattered info together to give us a rough # of Pres sold. I'd hazard a guess that it's at least 60% of 823K (=500K) but not more than 80% (=650K).
  6. Xyg
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    800K would be 25% of Sprint handset sales, seems unlikely according to an analyst.
    823K accounting for all Palm phone sales across all carriers. They didn't break it down by SKU. The CFO did mention that the "vast majority" of that 823k number were Pre's, spread out between *two* carriers - Sprint and Bell Mobility.
  7. cgk
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    823K accounting for all Palm phone sales across all carriers. They didn't break it down by SKU. The CFO did mention that the "vast majority" of that 823k number were Pre's, spread out between *two* carriers - Sprint and Bell Mobility.
    What markets and carriers still have "other" devices, anyone know?
  8. Xyg
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    What markets and carriers still have "other" devices, anyone know?
    The Centro is active on every major US carrier I believe, and the Treo Pro both on US CDMA and GSM carriers.
  9. #29  
    I was watching Fast Money on CNBC 30 mins ago when the call started and everyone keeps saying that Palm needs to get the WebOs devices on the two largest carriers in the US in order for Palm to grow. Its not like that's a secret to us or Palm.

    The problem is that Palm hasn't announced any deals with Verizon or ATT so right now Palm has all of their eggs in the Sprint basket. Palm just perpetuates the problem by announcing the Pixi as a exclusive on Sprint. That doesn't give investors hope that Palm is working out a deal with ATT and Verizon.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  10. cgk
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    The problem is that Palm hasn't announced any deals with Verizon or ATT so right now Palm has all of their eggs in the Sprint basket. Palm just perpetuates the problem by announcing the Pixi as a exclusive on Sprint. That doesn't give investors hope that Palm is working out a deal with ATT and Verizon.

    Is it simply that palm does not have the muscle to get a decent deal out of those carriers? Palm needs them more than they need Palm? (and if pre sales are soft, that problem becomes bigger).
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    The Centro is active on every major US carrier I believe, and the Treo Pro both on US CDMA and GSM carriers.
    Sure, but you can't walk into the largest GSM carries in the US and purchase th T Pro. You can't even purchase it from their website. So that means that the potential audience that could be aware of it is pretty low.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  12. Xyg
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    I was watching Fast Money on CNBC 30 mins ago when the call started and everyone keeps saying that Palm needs to get the WebOs devices on the two largest carriers in the US in order for Palm to grow. Its not like that's a secret to us or Palm.

    The problem is that Palm hasn't announced any deals with Verizon or ATT so right now Palm has all of their eggs in the Sprint basket. Palm just perpetuates the problem by announcing the Pixi as a exclusive on Sprint. That doesn't give investors hope that Palm is working out a deal with ATT and Verizon.
    CNBC. Lol.

    Perhaps there is a benefit from partnering with a company that has a solid track record of good execution during product rollouts. Partnering with a company that's willing to invest in advertising and training.

    Perhaps having a botched initial launch of a product is something Palm can't afford?

    Palm's goal is to aggressively get their product onto other other carriers, and has been described as a keystone in their strategy for growth.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Is it simply that palm does not have the muscle to get a decent deal out of those carriers? Palm needs them more than they need Palm? (and if pre sales are soft, that problem becomes bigger).
    I don't buy that. Before the launch of the Pre I would have agreed with you. But you did notice after the launch of the Pre how Verizon's CEO was failing all over himself to say that they'll have Pre like devices from Palm. ATT CEO comes and says that he would love to have the Pre on ATT.

    Its clear that ATT and Verizon wants to make a deal with Palm. We just don't know what Palm is asking. In the position they're in I would guess that they're not asking for much but both sides may have to make concessions.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  14. #34  
    Not good news for Palm or IMO WebOS. They wouldn't even release the Pre's sales figures and the only reason they wouldn't do that is because they didn't meet expectations. On top of that there are several fundamental flaws in WebOS, the SDK and the general plan Palm is implementing.

    Hopefully Palm will stop trying to act like Apple, open communication with users, implement a beta for consumers and get some real updates out into the wild. 1.2 offers some promise but its still not enough to really turn the device into what it should have been doing out of the box.

    Additional 16 million shares getting floated because Palm is running out of money. Not a good sign, further dilution of ownership and most likely the last resort because the credit market told them to take a hike. This likely won't be the last offering made either unless things change drastically.

    They better get some devices to market on other carriers quickly because general interest in WebOS is waning and competition is only increasing. Palm had a very brief window of opportunity and its closing rapidly.

    Its not Sprint's fault that the Pre's isn't selling. Its palm's fault for releasing a phone that wasn't ready for prime time. Consumers don't care if your company is dying slowing and you need to release now, ready or not.

    If things don't improve substantially Palm will be in Bankruptcy before the end of next year.
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    Not good news for Palm or IMO WebOS. They wouldn't even release the Pre's sales figures and the only reason they wouldn't do that is because they didn't meet expectations. On top of that there are several fundamental flaws in WebOS, the SDK and the general plan Palm is implementing.

    Hopefully Palm will stop trying to act like Apple, open communication with users, implement a beta for consumers and get some real updates out into the wild. 1.2 offers some promise but its still not enough to really turn the device into what it should have been doing out of the box.

    Additional 16 million shares getting floated because Palm is running out of money. Not a good sign, further dilution of ownership and most likely the last resort because the credit market told them to take a hike. This likely won't be the last offering made either unless things change drastically.

    They better get some devices to market on other carriers quickly because general interest in WebOS is waning and competition is only increasing. Palm had a very brief window of opportunity and its closing rapidly.

    Its not Sprint's fault that the Pre's isn't selling. Its palm's fault for releasing a phone that wasn't ready for prime time. Consumers don't care if your company is dying slowing and you need to release now, ready or not.

    If things don't improve substantially Palm will be in Bankruptcy before the end of next year.
    No.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by bruba View Post
    No.
    Palm IS running out of money, hence the additional stock offered to raise money. The sales figures did NOT exceed or even meet expectations, because if they did, they would have every reason (stock price, bragging rights, leverage for future carrier deals) in the world to announce it publicly as virtually every other handset maker does. The phone was NOT ready at release hence the flurry of updates and multiple returns from even satisfied Pre users, some in this very forum. And yes, they ARE at risk of ceasing to exist by the end of next year (well into fiscal year 2011).

    None of that is good news.

    The last hope is them having 2 or more WebOS devices across multiple carriers as well as the UK. But the recent "preview" showing of the Pre in the UK didn't go well, so part of that may be FUBARed too.

    I think the Pre's reputation as cheap, shoddy hardware may be baked into the cake from the numerous bad first impressions. It may be a really good idea to alter the name and form factor for their next flagship WebOS device. I hope they're around long enough to make it happen.

    I'd love to revisit a mature, finished WebOS with sturdy hardware in the next 12-18 months. But until then, I'm done with Palm.
  17. #37  
    Strange.. I was watching the Business News Network and the analyst on their stated that palm was doing fairly well. It also stated Palm's first quarter losses were less than expected.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Strange.. I was watching the Business News Network and the analyst on their stated that palm was doing fairly well. It also stated Palm's first quarter losses were less than expected.
    great you got a chance to meet some of our resident rain clouds.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  19. s219's Avatar
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    #39  
    I guess I am not any more optimistic/pessimistic than I was yesterday (my reasons are somewhat independent of the financials), but I was hoping they would announce Pre sales numbers. The fact that they didn't, and the stock sale, are a bit troubling.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Strange.. I was watching the Business News Network and the analyst on their stated that palm was doing fairly well. It also stated Palm's first quarter losses were less than expected.
    Pre boosts Palm smartphone sales 134% - Sep. 17, 2009

    They still beat estimates but not by 15 cents... more like 5 cents...

    "Results did not include deferred income of $1.07 per share. Including that revenue, which is deferred over the life of customers' smartphone contracts, Palm said it would have lost 10 cents per share. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters, who included that income in their estimates, forecasted a loss of 25 cents per share."

    They need to get the App store up and running ASAP so that they keep the phone exciting until they can get out from under Sprint since they are not helping things. Since they won't have phones for other carriers until the second half of 2010, they NEED to keep the phone exciting. They will competing from within the Sprint camp such as the Hero which Sprint has no problem putting it head to head even though they say Pre is flagship.
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