Mr. Rubinstein: I do not care about Itunes sync. PLEASE fix the calendar!

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by PREmeditated

Nonsense? The same thing's happening to me and it doesn't take much of a search to find it is NOT uncommon to have deleted events keep showing up. It was happening to me so much that I've been forced to stop using the worthless google/pre calendar and use solely the classic with datebk6 so that I stop having false appointments in my calendar.

Dude, a quick search of your posts looks an awful lot like you're a paid palm plant or something. What's with your bizarre defensiveness in the face of legit complaints?

BTW, I just looked at each of the 11 posts you created. You never once mentioned this particular problem. Please, enough with the baiting about "a paid palm plant or something". I've been on this forum for 6 years. Definitely not on Palm's payroll.

Here's a suggestion for you. If you want help with a particular problem, ask for it; instead of just a bunch of "rah rah yeah the calendar's no good" silliness.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by eekinsman

1.The issue for me that day was the scheduling of a jury trial with multiple dates and alternatives settings over a period of 6-10 mos out.

2.I've used Agenda since it came out. It helps for sure, but for you to say you'd "have it with one click" and imply that I must lack ability to use my device is absurd.

3.The calendar is slow, if you don't agree that's cool. But your response is to insult?

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]"
Internet forum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, the details to put it in a different perspective, sounds like Agenda wouldn't have done it. Still don't know exactly what the "embarrassment was, since you just generally state it's too slow.

You have also noted failures in court with your Treo. Maybe it's time to get a good paper system... (or at least a device you know works for you).

As far as the "insults" go, sorry you took it that way, but would you like quotes of the times you've personally insulted me (an others) on these forums? I'd suggest that a guy that states someone "doesn't know what he's talking about" thicken up the their skin a bit.

[sivan]

Originally Posted by hparsons

I've been on this forum for 6 years. Definitely not on Palm's payroll.

Bought stocks recently?

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by sivan

Bought stocks recently?

The few stocks I have are all in mutual funds. I don't buy and sell, just buy. Why do you ask? Or, maybe you can just answer for me...

[eekinsman]

Originally Posted by hparsons

Yes, the details to put it in a different perspective, sounds like Agenda wouldn't have done it. Still don't know exactly what the "embarrassment was, since you just generally state it's too slow.

You have also noted failures in court with your Treo. Maybe it's time to get a good paper system... (or at least a device you know works for you).

As far as the "insults" go, sorry you took it that way, but would you like quotes of the times you've personally insulted me (an others) on these forums? I'd suggest that a guy that states someone "doesn't know what he's talking about" thicken up the their skin a bit.

1. My point, and others' too, in posting in this thread is to join others who feel the Pre's calendar is lacking and to register our dissatisfaction on this site, the Pre's premier forum.

2. HParsons somehow mistakenly takes this as a personal request for advice from him on work issues, character development, phone selection whether to get an android or blackberry, software choices, career development. Further, as is his habit, he attempts to draw posters into arguments, and eventually an argument over what your arguing about.

3. hparsons: I decline your invitation for senseless off -topic argument, and save your advice.

4.To Palm: Please fix the calendar. Its far to slow and lagy and lacks search and easy navigation.

5. To Pre users with genuine WebOs problems: Keep posting your concerns and solutions. Ignore Hparsons.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by eekinsman

...
2. HParsons somehow mistakenly takes this as a personal request for advice from him on work issues, character development, phone selection whether to get an android or blackberry, software choices, career development. Further, as is his habit, he attempts to draw posters into arguments, and eventually an argument over what your arguing about.

Ooops, you missed on that one. I took it as an opportunity to point out the senselessness of insisting that someone fix something, simply because some don't like the features.

[sivan]

I don't mind debating hparsons.

So, to hparsons, after all this what's your position? I understand that you personally don't use the Calendar but instead use Agenda and QuickEvent.

So for those that want to use the Calendar, should Palm fix it? Is there a reason why Palm should not fix it?

[mullern]

Originally Posted by hparsons

Ooops, you missed on that one. I took it as an opportunity to point out the senselessness of insisting that someone fix something, simply because some don't like the features, or are too incompetent to use them the way they were designed. Sorry if pointing out your "track record" offends you...

Apparently you are the owner of the only truth. We all acknowledge that by now, give you all the credits, and now please leave this forum. Being a member for x years does not make you more competent than anyone else, and for sure does not give you the right to claim competence in judging the work and work-stile of others. Open your own thread, maybe under the title of "Who wants to debate with me about competence". We don't want to be judged by you in our competences, but listened to by Palm and other serious developers in the field, because we have issues to be taken seriously and to be solved.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by mullern

Apparently you are the owner of the only truth. We all acknowledge that by now, give you all the credits, and now please leave this forum. Being a member for x years does not make you more competent than anyone else, and for sure does not give you the right to claim competence in judging the work and work-stile of others. Open your own thread, maybe under the title of "Who wants to debate with me about competence". We don't want to be judged by you in our competences, but listened to by Palm and other serious developers in the field, because we have issues to be taken seriously and to be solved.

I don't believe I've said anything about your competence; however, when a particular user gets on here, and claims that Palm is at fault because his Pre "embarrassed him" in court, and that same user was on the same forum complaining that Palm was somehow at fault because his Treo lost work that he needed in court, I don't think Palm's the issue. But if it is, he probably should move to something more reliable.

My comment about how long I've been on the forum has nothing to do with "competence", it was posted in direct response to the foolish accusation that I was a "plant" from Palm.

However, I've found that most of the problems I have with a device (or a program, or just about anything I'm having problems with) are my problems. Insisting that a system work the way I want it to might make me feel self-righteous, but it usually won't fix "the problem".

I would suggest that if your real goal is to be "listened to by Palm", that you go to their forum, and post them there. There are some folks from Palm on this forum (I know, because they PM me from time to time), but you'll find a lot more Palm ears on their forum.

This is a users forum. Nothing wrong with complaining. The problem arises when folks want to complain, post what is often incorrect information, and the cry and moan when someone counters.

Don't want a counter? Don't post where you can be countered.

BTW, personal attacks are actually against the forum rules. That seems to be pretty broadly ignored on here as well.

[ospreyguy]

Haha, you are arguing with strangers on the internets... Very productive!

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by sivan

I don't mind debating hparsons.

So, to hparsons, after all this what's your position? I understand that you personally don't use the Calendar but instead use Agenda and QuickEvent.

So for those that want to use the Calendar, should Palm fix it? Is there a reason why Palm should not fix it?

You have again misstated my use of the device. I will again state that I do, indeed, use the Calendar.

[bbkat]

I saw this thread come back to the top & thought there was some actual new info on the crappy calendar app.

[pogeypre]

As a thread gets longer, the subject gets convoluted and the meaning is lost.

Time is foolishly spent, I believe, when we continue this pointless banter and try to spice it up with personal attacks.

If you have a problem with a specific issue and you are honestly looking for answers in these forums, you are welcome to do so. If you are here purely to spite Palm, you are welcome to do so as well. Just remember, that you will need to defend your position as sometimes people will disagree with you.

Keep the conversation clean and on point. Do not venture off again.

[mullern]

Thank you so much, Forum Moderator. I was hoping that you would intervene at some point. I have no issue with being opposed, as long as it is serious and constructive discussion.
I posted a while ago (#138) and had to realize that every single serious post about issues with the calendar function was just commented and re-commented at length with "incompetent use" or similar. I hope we can get back to constructive discussion and try to commonly advance the functionality of this great device.

[sivan]

Originally Posted by hparsons

You have again misstated my use of the device. I will again state that I do, indeed, use the Calendar.

I guess I missed it. For every example I gave about the Calendar app failing, you suggested Agenda and QuickEvent.

But I have already explained that these are not substitutes. I am referring to typical usage such as the one given in the court example, where one needs to be able to search and schedule events broadly over extended periods of time, and doing so while interacting with people in realtime.

You have conceded in replying to that example, that Agenda would not have worked for that usage.

So for this usage, which you did not anticipate, and which could easily be accomplished in Palm OS calendar, the webOS Calendar app fails. So we are asking Palm to address this deficiency.

Is there a reason for you to object to this?

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by mullern

...
I posted a while ago (#138) and had to realize that every single serious post about issues with the calendar function was just commented and re-commented at length with "incompetent use" or similar. I hope we can get back to constructive discussion and try to commonly advance the functionality of this great device.

The post you mentioned was about time zones. I don't think anyone, and I know not I (and I was the subject of your personal attac), has attributed the time zone issue to "incompetence".

Personally, I don't know about the time zone issue, nor do I know a workaround. I know that Google has made accomidations for time zones, but I don't know if there's any way that the pre can use them. I started to test out that ability when I saw your post, and then it occurred to me that testing it would likely be pointless unless I actually go to another time zone (since that's the only way I know of get the phone to switch times).

I certainly don't think the time zone issue is a lack of ability in using the device. Truth be told, I have no opinion one way or another, since I can't test it myself.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by sivan

I guess I missed it. For every example I gave about the Calendar app failing, you suggested Agenda and QuickEvent.

But I have already explained that these are not substitutes. I am referring to typical usage such as the one given in the court example, where one needs to be able to search and schedule events broadly over extended periods of time, and doing so while interacting with people in realtime.

You have conceded in replying to that example, that Agenda would not have worked for that usage.

So for this usage, which you did not anticipate, and which could easily be accomplished in Palm OS calendar, the webOS Calendar app fails. So we are asking Palm to address this deficiency.

Is there a reason for you to object to this?

I have no objection whatsoever to you voicing such an opinion. I simply disagree.

I was not in that particular situation, so I don't know exactly what happened (neither were you for that matter). However, I do know that if someone says "Herb, what's your availability on July 8, 2010", there are different ways I can get there:

• I can open the calendar, and swipe side to side day by day. On my Pre, that's taking about 1/2 per day. Not practical
• I can open the calendar, set it to month view (mine defaults to week view, but that's a tweak, so I won't include it here), and swipe up and down. That also takes about 1/2 second per month, but then when I got to July 2010, I'd have to narrow down to the day. Not really practical.
• I can open the calendar, and swipe down the menu, and select the "Jump To" option. Those options have "wheels" for date selection, none of the three take me more a couple swipes to pick the right selection. That works for me.

I would say that either of the first two would result in someone being exasperated with the calendar, and complaining that it's too slow. Both of the first two would be examples of people using the app the wrong way.

The second option took me 7 seconds total to get July 8 2010. If my calendar was full that day, I would switch to month view, which wouldn't show me details, but would show me which days were free. If that wasn't good enough, I'd switch to week view, and scroll throgh the weeks of July, that would show me the details.

Granted, this is slower than my Treo was. However, my Treo was showing me only one calendar, not 16 different calendars, from 8 different sources which the Pre is doing.

I like the Pre's system better, in spite of it's slightly slower performance. I wouldn't trade for it.

On the other hand, I can understand why some would. If they feel that way, they should.

But, I don't think this is broken, so I don't think there's anything to "fix".

[ahaxton]

Originally Posted by hparsons

• I can open the calendar, and swipe down the menu, and select the "Jump To" option. Those options have "wheels" for date selection, none of the three take me more a couple swipes to pick the right selection. That works for me.

Tapping on the date in the header bar of any of the three calendar views takes you directly to the "Jump To" menu, bypassing swiping down for the menu and tapping "Jump To...." just to make it a little faster.

[eekinsman]

Originally Posted by ahaxton

Tapping on the date in the header bar of any of the three calendar views takes you directly to the "Jump To" menu, bypassing swiping down for the menu and tapping "Jump To...." just to make it a little faster.

Excellent, productive, helpful contribution to the thread.

[sivan]

Indeed one can jump to various specific dates within the calendar app. But it is the switch between views that's slow, and again, we are talking about a series of events and those lag times add up quickly.

It often takes 10 seconds to launch the calendar app and get to the day view. Then, switching to weekly or monthly, a few seconds each, view and back and forth to finally zero in on available times involves many lags that make this impractical.

Then there is the inability to search for an event altogether. Say in the court case, that during the discussion it becomes necessary to reschedule certain court appearances booked months in advance. There is no way to find them, other than tediously swiping and scanning every day view, or even if one had a general idea of the time, would still involve many switches between weekly and day views incurring many lags along the way.

And, and has been acknowledged, on Palm OS these operations were nearly instantaneous. What people are asking is the same level usability.

The fact that the Pre combines multiple calendars, if implemented correctly, should have no effect whatsoever on responsiveness.

So again, what is the objection to Palm fixing the Calendar app? Is there a reason not to fix it?