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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But you can't operate in vacuum, it does not matter what the iphone had when it launched, it matters what it has now.
    What do you mean by "can't operate in vacuum"?

    My point was that a new device needs time to mature and create a standard. The iPhone was great when it came out with v1 of the OS. With every update it improved vastly. I joined the Pre train when webOS 1.1 had been out already, but from what I hear from others the bugs that 1.0.x had were addressed and fixed quite promptly, and it runs really well as a result.

    I suggest you have some patience. The Pre will be as popular and useful as the iPhone. It'll just take TIME.

    Also, I'd like to address the lag [non]issue in webOS. Sure it lags a bit, but I find the "lag" to be tolerable. It's only a few seconds, so I don't see why so many posters here are complaining about how there shouldn't be any lag at all. No device is perfect. Live with it.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But you can't operate in vacuum, it does not matter what the iphone had when it launched, it matters what it has now.
    You also can't operate outside the boundaries of reality. It's all well and good to say that the only thing that matters is what the iphone has now, but it's just not true.

    What matters more than anything else is marketing hype. Apple had (and still has) a great ad campaign for the iphone, and they did a great job of building off of their HUGE (and IMO completely undeserved) ipod market.

    In every meaningful way, the Pre is doing at least as well as, if not better than, the first iphone was doing at this point after it's release. Critically thinking consumers will see the potential and lean towards the Pre. Those that are not so critically thinking will go with what is familiar, be it the iphone because they've had an ipod for the last 10 years, the Pre because it says palm and they've owned a bunch of palm pilots, or whichever one has the neatest looking ads.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiggitay View Post
    Also, I'd like to address the lag [non]issue in webOS. Sure it lags a bit, but I find the "lag" to be tolerable. It's only a few seconds, so I don't see why so many posters here are complaining about how there shouldn't be any lag at all. No device is perfect. Live with it.
    I agree completely, except where you say the lag is a few seconds. Under normal usage, I never experience more than a second of lag even with half a dozen cards open.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    You also can't operate outside the boundaries of reality. It's all well and good to say that the only thing that matters is what the iphone has now, but it's just not true.

    What matters more than anything else is marketing hype. Apple had (and still has) a great ad campaign for the iphone, and they did a great job of building off of their HUGE (and IMO completely undeserved) ipod market.

    In every meaningful way, the Pre is doing at least as well as, if not better than, the first iphone was doing at this point after it's release. Critically thinking consumers will see the potential and lean towards the Pre. Those that are not so critically thinking will go with what is familiar, be it the iphone because they've had an ipod for the last 10 years, the Pre because it says palm and they've owned a bunch of palm pilots, or whichever one has the neatest looking ads.
    +1

    I had an iPod starting from 2004 and the whole iPod and now iPhone-esque platform has come a long way. I have hopes for the Pre to do the same.
  5. cgk
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post

    In every meaningful way, the Pre is doing at least as well as, if not better than, the first iphone was doing at this point after it's release.
    Except for, you know, sales which is what drives the development of a platform. No analysts thinks the Pre has hit it targets.

    Critically thinking consumers will see the potential and lean towards the Pre.
    I see the potential but I'm not interested in paying for 'jam tomorrow', when that potential is realised I'll put down the cash. I'm not saying the palm is a bad platform but at the moment it does not offer enough for me to pick it over an iphone or any of the other stable platforms. Maybe in a year it will be different but not at the moment.
  6. #66  
    From your #2 statement of complaint showing results... Sounds like emailing and complaining has let Palm know what the users main issues are at the moment and has gotten results. So what's wrong with that? We (I mean as a forum) are finding out what is wrong with the system on the user side faster than they are. We are telling them what means more to us as a user to give them an idea of priority than what they think we need. And in Chuq's post he said, "We have gotten a lot of feedback about NaNPlayer which is great." He said GREAT!

    It's not taking time out of their busy schedules... They have people to deal with this... or should. Again if anything it let's them know what's wrong, what people want, and the direction they need to go.

    So what is wrong with complaining if it is a legitimate bug/concern? I think a lot of people dont want it because they think "You're going to make us look bad over the iPhone and people will hurt the Pre." But iPhone users on their forums have complained from the beginning about Apple or ATT and over time Apple has given them everything they wanted. Granted they are slow in development but if we didnt cry about cut/paste sooner... we'd probably still be waiting for it or wouldnt have it. They woudnt have seen the potential without complaints and seeing our developers create sw. It would still be a "phone, browser and ipod" if we didnt say anything.

    So many people say, "It's only been three months. Give them time."

    I know they are working as hard as they can... but time is a luxury they do not have and them going on a different direction from what the users and buyers want is a WASTE of time. You can't keep comparing to 1st gen iPhone. Apple has admittedly set the standard and set the pace and because of it you also have BB and Android running at a breakneck pace along with Apple... competition which Apple didnt have when they started so they had more time. Apple set the standard of many updates to their sw... which if you were on other platforms (especially winmo) was unheard of. Palm does NOT have the luxury of time like Apple did.

    Quote Originally Posted by PreGame View Post
    2.) WebOS has been released for 3 months! Give Palm time to iron out the bugs. I have to say it took Apple 2 years to get copy/paste into their software. Palm is moving at a pretty good pace to get everything working. We complained that the SDK wasn't being released fast enough so Palm releases it. We then complain that apps are not being added to the App Catalog. So Palm then starts opening the App Catalog. We then complain that the SDK is not complete and API's are undocumented. Palm is working as fast as they can to get everything working.
    Last edited by donm527; 09/12/2009 at 08:05 AM.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreGame View Post
    If you have improvements or legit issues affecting your experience with Palm simple use the contact methods (in a nice professional manner) posted on their site and or forums. They check these frequently and love to hear feed back.
    So again... If you have a legit issues (might as well call them COMPLAINTS)... post it on THEIR site and (THEIR) forums?! So what do you want people to post here... How everyone loves their Pre and how all the roses smell so pretty and such?

    In my opinoin, you are doing a disservice to them by not letting them know what works and what DOESN'T and discuss it HERE. They actually might find out about bugs they didnt even know they had until people here talked about it.

    You feel bad about all those employees working all those hours and weekends? Feel sorry for them if Palm fails and they have to find other jobs.

    Also, I am not a frequent visitor so don't read all your posts... but what's with the donation link... Is it to YOU? Or asking for the hard people working on the weekends? You look like your panhandling without giving any explanation and need to be descriptive when asking for donations.
    Last edited by donm527; 09/12/2009 at 08:38 AM.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    In every meaningful way, the Pre is doing at least as well as, if not better than, the first iphone was doing at this point after it's release.
    Look, I know this forum is supposed to act like a pep rally for Palm, and any reasonably-pleased Palm owner is going to want to "big up" their device...

    ...but this is empirically, unquestionably, demonstrably BS.

    The first iPhone sold 700K in the first weekend, while costing 3x as much as the Pre, and offering less services on the data plan (There was no app store, GPS, or MMS either).

    As far as I can see, the Pre will be lucky to match the G1, which reached a million in sales 6 MONTHS after launch.

    If you wanna directly compare iPhone 2.5G and the Pre, it's not going to turn out well for the Pre.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Look, I know this forum is supposed to act like a pep rally for Palm, and any reasonably-pleased Palm owner is going to want to "big up" their device...

    ...but this is empirically, unquestionably, demonstrably BS.

    The first iPhone sold 700K in the first weekend, while costing 3x as much as the Pre, and offering less services on the data plan (There was no app store, GPS, or MMS either).

    As far as I can see, the Pre will be lucky to match the G1, which reached a million in sales 6 MONTHS after launch.

    If you wanna directly compare iPhone 2.5G and the Pre, it's not going to turn out well for the Pre.
    +1

    I had a first gen iPhone in service with the EDGE data plan, and while it worked, it's nothing compared to my EvDO connection.
  10. alltrippy's Avatar
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    #70  
    I am just a plain user. I love this forum, because through trial and error, I have managed to get stuff on my pre before the app cat gets them. For me this is a major triumph.

    From my simply point of view, one that just wants a fun phone that works well (probably a large percentage of pre users) here is all I want.

    1. A phone that works.
    2. A cool looking phone, I can brag about.
    3. Apps in the App Cat that works (any fool that thinks that users expect apps to have
    problems after I purchase them is just an *****.) I think that is why Palm is
    making sure they get Itunes working ASAP whenever Itunes breaks syncing with
    Palm.
    4. Good connection.
    5. Since I opted for a smart phone. It should be able to do nifty things, that other
    phones can't. (Synergy).

    That is about it.

    BTW. I do find it funny that a lot of people are just like me. I purchased this phone, and since I am them most amazingly intelligent person in the world, than this phone has got to be the most amazingly fantastic phone in the world - how could it not. I think we all, so some degree fall into this. I know I do. I think it also hits us when we discuss what we want the pre to do. (If I want it, it most be the most important thing in the world).

    Thank god for Palm not falling into this category, but maybe, just possibly, Palm pays some pretty smart people to find out what the majority of pre users want. People like me, just common folk, whom LOVE THE PRE.

    This is the most amazing phone I have ever had. I am super pleased with it, and since I bought it, the pre must be the best phone ever to grace mankind. Of this I am sure.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by alltrippy View Post
    This is the most amazing phone I have ever had. I am super pleased with it, and since I bought it, the pre must be the best phone ever to grace mankind. Of this I am sure.
    That's the type of comments we needed to hear from Sprint CEO and not the weakness coming from Dan Hesse.

    Sprint CEO on Pre vs iPhone: "It's like comparing someone to Michael Jordan" - Pre vs iPhone - Gizmodo

    Maybe Sprint board of directors reads these forums and will call you to replace him
  12. #72  
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    #73  
    haha
  14. drizek's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    That's the type of comments we needed to hear from Sprint CEO and not the weakness coming from Dan Hesse.

    Sprint CEO on Pre vs iPhone: "It's like comparing someone to Michael Jordan" - Pre vs iPhone - Gizmodo

    Maybe Sprint board of directors reads these forums and will call you to replace him
    He was dodging a question about the number of Pres sold. It is a great phone of course(and he stressed that, especially when he mentioned how it is their flagship and how they put it in all the ads), but I think everyone will agree that it hasn't sold nearly as well as the iPhone.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Look, I know this forum is supposed to act like a pep rally for Palm, and any reasonably-pleased Palm owner is going to want to "big up" their device...

    ...but this is empirically, unquestionably, demonstrably BS.

    The first iPhone sold 700K in the first weekend, while costing 3x as much as the Pre, and offering less services on the data plan (There was no app store, GPS, or MMS either).

    As far as I can see, the Pre will be lucky to match the G1, which reached a million in sales 6 MONTHS after launch.

    If you wanna directly compare iPhone 2.5G and the Pre, it's not going to turn out well for the Pre.
    If Steve Jobs takes a dump, polish it and stick an apple logo in it, Apple loyalists will buy it in droves. Apple has that luxury - a well-established brand (that transcends a variety of products). Palm used to enjoy something similar in the PDA world but no more, too many players now and, IMO, they've taken a little too long to evolve with the market. So the comparison from the get-go is not a fair one. Apple has the brand AND the large niche market.

    Even if Palm was able to hit it out of the ballpark on the first try, there would still be no guarantee in term of high sales and you can bet people will find something to complain about. Palm has to regain some of that momentum they once had and it will take time. I think they started off very well.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    What's so special about Palm's platform that satisfies you? There are far more mature platforms out there. If you don't care what Palm ships on the device, why care about the Pre?
    Ease of development. There are almost 300 programs out for the Pre, in less than 4 months. That's on a new OS, on a new phone. Pretty remarkable, to me.

    In addition, I've been able to go in and modify many of the existing programs to suit me. A few of those have been without assistance from others. That's because of the platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    But you're not using the Platform, you don't even develop software. How are you using the platform that it satisfies you so? I think you're confusing your general satisfaction as originating from the Pre.
    Sure I am. Besides the modifications that I've done myself, everytime I use a app written by a developer who was attracted to the Pre because of its platform, I'm benefitting from the platform.
    A good example of this is PDANet on the Treo compared to MyTether on the Pre. Look how fast MyTether came out, and how fast it's evolved. PDANet was a great product, but it's evolution was much slower.

    As for confusion, I think you're simply so blinded by your own dissatisfaction that you're failing to see that others may feel differently...


    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Pimlico can write DateBk for any other platform. Why wait on the Pre?
    From what I hear, they're not. That means that others will have to fill the gap. I suspect that will happen if they don't wake up. I have noticed a lot more chatter on their Yahoo group about the possibilities for the Pre. Basically, the feeling from some appears to be that since the announcement of the Pixie, the Centro is on its way out, and PalmOS is basically dead.


    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Why spend twice? Do you normally buy broken stuff because you're going to fix it your way and it doesn't matter?
    Because I bought the device and OS, not the software that came on it. Windows comes with an OK text editor, I bought a better one. It also came with a document editor, millions of people buy MS Word. The Treo came with a PIM, hundreds of thousands of people bought Datebk.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Stop using double negatives
    See litotes.
  17. cgk
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    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    If Steve Jobs takes a dump, polish it and stick an apple logo in it, Apple loyalists will buy it in droves. Apple has that luxury - a well-established brand (that transcends a variety of products).
    Which is largely nonsense if you think about it, how many people have macs and how many people have iphones? If the iphone sales were based on loyalty to apple as a brand, then it would have topped out at about ten million. Iphone is the brand as far as most consumers are concerned. My nieces could not tell Steve Jobs from a hole in the ground but they wanted the iphone.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Which is largely nonsense if you think about it, how many people have macs and how many people have iphones?
    What about Ipods? Tons of Apple fans own PCs and Ipods or just ipods. It's not just about the Mac anymore. And I didn't think I'd have to spell out the fact that Apple fans would have an influence on friends or family. Of course with all the hoopla comes new apple fans. The orginal iphone was a great product but it didn't do anything special (that other smarphones weren't capable of) except look cool. Who did you think was the biggest market at the time? Especially given the ridiculous price point they were selling at.

    If the iphone sales were based on loyalty to apple as a brand, then it would have topped out at about ten million. Iphone is the brand as far as most consumers are concerned. My nieces could not tell Steve Jobs from a hole in the ground but they wanted the iphone.
    Let's say you're right and there were only 10 million Apple loyalists (doubtful). That's still nothing to shake a stick at. With that number brings popularity and developers and tons of apps and more popularity and so on....... Now everybody knows about the Iphone, but it would not be anywhere as popular if weren't for the loyalists. And there's nothing wrong with that of course. Brand loyalty is what every manufacturer strives for.
    Last edited by darreno1; 09/12/2009 at 02:23 PM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    What about Ipods? Tons of Apple fans own PCs and Ipods or just ipods. It's not just about the Mac anymore. And I didn't think I'd have to spell out the fact that Apple fans would have an influence on friends or family. Of course with all the hoopla comes new apple fans. The orginal iphone was a great product but it didn't do anything special (that other smarphones weren't capable of) except look cool. Who did you think was the biggest market at the time? Especially given the ridiculous price point they were selling at.

    Let's say you're right and there were only 10 million Apple loyalists (doubtful). That's still nothing to shake a stick at. With that number brings popularity and developers and tons of apps and more popularity and so on....... Now everybody knows about the Iphone, but it would not be anywhere as popular if weren't for the loyalists. And there's nothing wrong with that of course. Brand loyalty is what every manufacturer strives for.
    The problem with your theory is that Apple CONTINUES to make new fans of both their products and their brand. They are expanding marketshare in the mobile space at an amazing race, and it continues to trend upward over two years and three very similar models.

    Sure, there are loyalists, but do a large degree, Apple has earned their loyalty. They're the only handset maker in the mobile space who is:

    1) Actively innovating
    2) Offering their products at a relatively low price
    3) Using next-gen hardware AND providing the software to actually USE it (including the fancy GPU)
    4) Working well with developers to add value to the device

    No other handset or OS maker does all four of these, not even Palm.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The problem with your theory is that Apple CONTINUES to make new fans of both their products and their brand. They are expanding marketshare in the mobile space at an amazing race, and it continues to trend upward over two years and three very similar models.

    Sure, there are loyalists, but do a large degree, Apple has earned their loyalty. They're the only handset maker in the mobile space who is:

    1) Actively innovating
    2) Offering their products at a relatively low price
    3) Using next-gen hardware AND providing the software to actually USE it (including the fancy GPU)
    4) Working well with developers to add value to the device

    No other handset or OS maker does all four of these, not even Palm.
    Any popular product will bring in new fans. I acknowledged it. I just don't see how that invalidates what I said in any manner.

    Anyway to address that list:

    1. Many of the technologies / features seen in the iphone weren't Apple's ideas to begin with. What I would give them credit for, is they successfully brought them all together in an attractive / functional package - something they are masters at.

    2.Apple and cheap generally do not go together. The iPhone like many other smartphones is selling at a competitive price point now because of market pressure. Believe it or not there is still competition even though it's number 1.

    3.Again nothing in the Iphone was/is revolutionary. Except for the 3gs the other iphones were average in terms of performance/ capacity. The underlying hardware isn't made by Apple either. The 600 mhz processor as well as the graphics chip are very capable but nothing I'd call next gen. And it still lacks features found in other smartphones: removable battery / expansion slot to name a few.

    4. I agree here. Hopefully others will follow in their footsteps.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
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