Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 98
  1. #41  
    Great post OP. This a a classic catch 22 - not quick enough with updates or app catalog......Palm speeds the process up......update doesn't include enough changes, apps are buggy...."why in the world would you allow apps that don't work properly, I'm paying for this?"

    Realistic is the only word that comes to mind....too bad many of the loudest complainers choose not to be....
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by stockh View Post
    I haven't touched(modified,rooted) my pre and only downloaded aprx 4 apps from the palm app store(beta). We are not imagining the lag, it's for real.

    Supposedly webos 1.2 addresses some of the lag issues and I eagerly await the release.
    Same here - haven't done a thing w/rooting. Same lag from the beginning. If 1.2 fixes the lag, I will be a happy camper!!
  3. #43  
    We are doing our best to improve quality.
    Give us time and our products will be better than others.

    .. so said General Motors.
  4. #44  
    I have a different perspective.

    Although I have some interest in developing for webOS, I think the entire app store and SDK are terrible distractions for Palm.

    Imagine if all the effort and focus was spent on creating first class applications delivered with the phone. Imagine that Music app was so good that Blubble wouldn't even recognize a business opportunity in creating a substitute.

    I know most consumers are clueless and have the apps and games drilled into their noggins, but still. The app store and SDK are a premature and wasteful pursuit at this point.

    Imagine a car manufacturer who makes a car with missing functionality because it expends its efforts on supporting aftermarket parts vendors. That's crazy. How did we end up in a situation where the phone is sold in unfinished state so the company can expend effort on supporting 3rd party developers?

    I'm also a long time Palm user, or is that hobbyist, who is frustrated with compromises done for the sake of glitz.

    Take the calendar for example. Pretty, but barely usable in a business context. How, in the year 2009, we still can't get a good calendar? This used to be Palm's mission.

    I'm sympathetic to Palm, and as a developer I understand the challenges, but I suspect that the problems originate from higher, with the developers bearing the brunt of it.
  5. #45  
    PreGame,

    Good post. It needed to be said.

    I think that the power of PreCentral is that we are 225,000 Palm users. I personally have never seen anything quite like this.

    Within hours of the posts here, Palm responded with their reasons. Palm is telling us that they are working on the Music Player API.

    The Pre's Music Player does not come close to what we had on our old Treo's since 2004 but DanPLC has shown that in one month one guy could fix two dozen of the Pre Music Player's biggest problems with his Music Player Remix.

    To me the most important part of Palm's response was not just about the NaNplayer but about our Homebrew Gallery. Palm is not just allowing Homebrew, Palm is happy we have our Homebrew Gallery!
    "While we can’t accept NaNplayer into the App Catalog right now, we are not rejecting it, and we are happy for it to continue life as a homebrew application until we get to the point where we can release public, supportable APIs for the functionality that it requires."

    Right now we have a really unique opportunity. We have a phone that not only can be customized, but the the source code to work from.

    Instead of sending an army of lawyers to shut down the Homebrew, Palm is actually encouraging a developer to release an app to Homebrew! Plus Homebrew developers are being approached by Palm to submit their Homebrew apps!

    I am sorry that NaNplayer will be delayed going into the Palm App Catalog but overall this has been a great week.

    - Craig
    Last edited by Milominderbinder; 09/11/2009 at 02:06 PM.
  6. #46  
    Totally disagree. The poor hardware (and Lag too) issues that were referenced above should be herd by Palm and, if appropriate, fixed. Whether I or others have experienced these problems is irrelevant. Palm not listening is partly what led to their near extinction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Great post Pregame.

    Thankfully I have to hope that Palm knows the general rule in regards to any kind of public response with that being that those unhappy are always going to be far, far, far louder than the vast majority that actually are pleased with their service/item.
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    ...
    How did we end up in a situation where the phone is sold in unfinished state so the company can expend effort on supporting 3rd party developers?
    ...
    My phone works pretty well. It's all of the extra's that my smartphone can do that I'm looking for 3rd party developers to provide.

    I'm willing to pay for that, rather than have Palm try to be a "jack of all trades". I don't mind paying for quality programs to eliminate Palm from being a "master of none".
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    My phone works pretty well. It's all of the extra's that my smartphone can do that I'm looking for 3rd party developers to provide.

    I'm willing to pay for that, rather than have Palm try to be a "jack of all trades". I don't mind paying for quality programs to eliminate Palm from being a "master of none".
    We've over this already and you keep missing the point. I'm not asking for GPS based playlists but for resume play, playing tracks without chopping the end and fast scrolling through lists.

    These are basics, not niche needs. You don't even play music on your devices, on what grounds do you even insert yourself into this?

    As for core PIM apps, that's what Palm was founded for.
  9. #49  
    Lastly, with all due respect for Blubble, to call him a genius in compare to Palm developers is ridiculous. He doesn't have business dictates and a 1001 other tasks to tend to, like working on the SDK or app store. An independent developer is not bound by Palm's business decisions, priorities and project costs, or designer whims.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreGame View Post
    PLEASE STOP EMAILING PALM,
    I haven't emailed anyone but with all due respect, it's a free country and people have every right to voice their displeasure with a company or a companies product so long as they don't hurt anyone.
  11. #51  
    Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh! I want my cookie mommy.... I want it nowwww! Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!


    Here is to hoping mommy shoves that cookie down ur throat! Right out of the oven.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam1am View Post
    Disagree on a fundamental level. We shouldn't be discussing the in's and out's of Palm's application approval process, we should be asking why it exists in the first place. Also, let's stop making excuses for Palm's shortcomings. The average user doesn't care if they're doing a better job at it than Apple did, they only care how Web OS competes NOW, not how it will in the future.

    Blubble provided several alternatives and reasons why his application should still be accepted, but Palm isn't budging. These are perfectly reasonable and would pass on any other operating system (with the exception of iPhone OS). It is expected that with major OS updates, some software will break. You make the decision to take that risk when you buy the software. END OF STORY. Stuff breaks just as much even if it is using official APIs.

    So let's all stop being Palm apologists and start being realistic. I don't care how hard Palm is working, I care how their products works NOW. I care about the openness of their app approval process. I care that I can run any application I want.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    We've over this already and you keep missing the point. I'm not asking for GPS based playlists but for resume play, playing tracks without chopping the end and fast scrolling through lists.

    These are basics, not niche needs. You don't even play music on your devices, on what grounds do you even insert yourself into this?

    As for core PIM apps, that's what Palm was founded for.
    Kind of a silly question (though it appears reasonable discussion touched somethng of a nerve...)
    What "grounds"? Well, you specifically said the phone, and I happen to have one.

    I do occasionally play music, just not often; it's interesting you brought that up though. You (who seem to actually use a player) want a free one from Palm; though I don't use one often, I'm willing to pay for a quality player from a 3rd party. I think that says a lot, and definitely gives me "ground" (whatever the heck that matters).

    PIM may have been what Palm was "founded" for, but focusing on that and having the phone play second-fiddle seems to have just about bankrupted the company. Reversing the roles seems to have saved them.

    Thanks for reading, now you have permission (grounds?) to respond...
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreGame View Post
    I have to disagree. With an API undocumented this means Palm has plans to change it in the future. By doing this they can either rename a method, change its response so that an application doesn't recognize it or even do away with a method. Any of these can break an application that uses one of these method calls for its data.

    I think we're having a failure in communication. I'm saying the same thing as you, really.

    I agree whole heartedly with your about API's breaking the software when/if they change. Some folks earlier in the thread tried to say that because software updates always break stuff, that shouldn't be a good reason to keep it out of the app store.

    My point is that while such breakages are acceptable when moving from Vista to Windows 7, they are NOT acceptable with an incremental upgrade on a smartphone, and therefore, Palm is doing the right thing trying to keep software out of the app store that is highly likely to break with a future update.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Kind of a silly question (though it appears reasonable discussion touched somethng of a nerve...)
    What "grounds"? Well, you specifically said the phone, and I happen to have one.
    Why not just a get a feature phone then? What do you use your Palm for? It seems that nothing about it is deemed important by you. Everything is good, no feature important in particular.

    I do occasionally play music, just not often; it's interesting you brought that up though. You (who seem to actually use a player) want a free one from Palm; though I don't use one often, I'm willing to pay for a quality player from a 3rd party. I think that says a lot, and definitely gives me "ground" (whatever the heck that matters).
    You said a few times already, that you never bothered using your Treo(?) as a music player and can't understand why the Pre needs one. So for you to interject on a debate about a music player seems odd.

    PIM may have been what Palm was "founded" for, but focusing on that and having the phone play second-fiddle seems to have just about bankrupted the company. Reversing the roles seems to have saved them.
    So you need a good phone, is that it? You're spending your time here because you think, or maybe you don't think, the Pre is a great phone. I can't tell. All you do is claim that the Pre doesn't need whatever feature is being debated and that everything is fine with the Pre.

    And about paying. I'd actually pay double to have a better quality Pre out of the box. It's far more important to me to have a working device (phone if you must) that does what I need without problems. I don't have a problem with paying. But I expect a high standard of all bundled applications.

    To me, the Pre is a phone, organizer and basic replacement for audio player and camera, so I don't have to carry more devices with me. I said basic, because I'm not asking for the moon. I only ask that it to work as expected. The Music app should not chop off tracks, should resume playback and should be snappy so I can use it on the go. What we have right now is a bug-ridden app.

    I expect a solid product from Palm first. Then 3rd party developers can fill in the niche categories. It's not the role of 3rd party developers to provide substitutes to broken apps that were shipped with the product.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Why not just a get a feature phone then? What do you use your Palm for? It seems that nothing about it is deemed important by you. Everything is good, no feature important in particular.
    ...
    The platform is important to me. I thought you understood that. I'll try to be more clear in the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    You said a few times already, that you never bothered using your Treo(?) as a music player and can't understand why the Pre needs one. So for you to interject on a debate about a music player seems odd.
    Uh, no I didn't. I've said that I it wasn't a big use for me. Fact is, I paid for Poket Tunes before it was free, and paid for the Pro version when it was.


    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    So you need a good phone, is that it? You're spending your time here because you think, or maybe you don't think, the Pre is a great phone. I can't tell. All you do is claim that the Pre doesn't need whatever feature is being debated and that everything is fine with the Pre.
    The platform dude, the platform. It was you that mentioned the "phone".


    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    And about paying. I'd actually pay double to have a better quality Pre out of the box. It's far more important to me to have a working device (phone if you must) that does what I need without problems. I don't have a problem with paying. But I expect a high standard of all bundled applications.
    First of all, what is with the "phone if you must"? It was your words, not mine. The denigrating tone might be justified, if I had misquoted you as you did me..., but please, spare us the animosity.
    Unfortunately, paying double for a different phone isn't an option at this point. However, encouraging developers and letting them know you're willing to pay them is. I prefer to live in the world of what can be, than complain about what I can't have.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    To me, the Pre is a phone, organizer and basic replacement for audio player and camera, so I don't have to carry more devices with me. I said basic, because I'm not asking for the moon. I only ask that it to work as expected. The Music app should not chop off tracks, should resume playback and should be snappy so I can use it on the go. What we have right now is a bug-ridden app.
    That's fine that it's what you expect. It's also fine that it's not what I expect, and that I'm willing to settle for the basics, and pay extra for what I want.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I expect a solid product from Palm first. Then 3rd party developers can fill in the niche categories. It's not the role of 3rd party developers to provide substitutes to broken apps that were shipped with the product.
    I'm trying to remember, what music player originally came with the first Treo, could someone jog my memory for me?

    It's clear you're dissatisifed with the Pre. That's certainly your option. However, I'm going to make no apologies for the fact that I'm not dissatisified.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The platform is important to me. I thought you understood that. I'll try to be more clear in the future.



    Uh, no I didn't. I've said that I it wasn't a big use for me. Fact is, I paid for Poket Tunes before it was free, and paid for the Pro version when it was.



    The platform dude, the platform. It was you that mentioned the "phone".



    First of all, what is with the "phone if you must"? It was your words, not mine. The denigrating tone might be justified, if I had misquoted you as you did me..., but please, spare us the animosity.
    Unfortunately, paying double for a different phone isn't an option at this point. However, encouraging developers and letting them know you're willing to pay them is. I prefer to live in the world of what can be, than complain about what I can't have.


    That's fine that it's what you expect. It's also fine that it's not what I expect, and that I'm willing to settle for the basics, and pay extra for what I want.


    I'm trying to remember, what music player originally came with the first Treo, could someone jog my memory for me?

    It's clear you're dissatisifed with the Pre. That's certainly your option. However, I'm going to make no apologies for the fact that I'm not dissatisified.
    What's the big deal with the platform, are you a software developer? Why should an end user care about the platform more than what applications are shipping with the device?

    So you're not satisfied, but you also make clear that nothing in particular about the Pre is important so being satisfied or not seems meaningless coming from you.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    What's the big deal with the platform, are you a software developer? Why should an end user care about the platform more than what applications are shipping with the device?
    The platform is what brings the potential to the device. Withot the a good platform, developers don't develop. And, guess who they develop for? Yep, you guessed it (or maybe you didn't), end users.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    So you're not satisfied, but you also make clear that nothing in particular about the Pre is important so being satisfied or not seems meaningless coming from you.
    Put your nose real close to the screen. See if you can read this and understand it:

    It's the Platform I'm satisfied with that. Room for improvement, but I'm satsified.

    I really liked my Treo. Several folks (including you) seem to think that the Treo was the be-all as a PIM. But I didn't feel that way. I thought it needed improvement. That's why I bought Datebk. Apparently, in spite of the nostalgia that many seemed consumed with, lots of other folks seemed to feel that the basic PIM was lacking enough that they went out and spent $30+ for an additional PIM.

    Now, if I'm going to spend money for updated software, what do I care about what the original was lacking, as long as the replacement makes up for it.

    BTW, I didn't say I wasn't satisfied, I said I wasn't dissatisfied. They actually mean different things... I'm still unclear why my satisfaction with the device is so troubling for you though...
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The platform is what brings the potential to the device. Withot the a good platform, developers don't develop. And, guess who they develop for? Yep, you guessed it (or maybe you didn't), end users.
    What's so special about Palm's platform that satisfies you? There are far more mature platforms out there. If you don't care what Palm ships on the device, why care about the Pre?

    Put your nose real close to the screen. See if you can read this and understand it:

    It's the Platform I'm satisfied with that. Room for improvement, but I'm satsified.
    But you're not using the Platform, you don't even develop software. How are you using the platform that it satisfies you so? I think you're confusing your general satisfaction as originating from the Pre.

    I really liked my Treo. Several folks (including you) seem to think that the Treo was the be-all as a PIM. But I didn't feel that way. I thought it needed improvement. That's why I bought Datebk. Apparently, in spite of the nostalgia that many seemed consumed with, lots of other folks seemed to feel that the basic PIM was lacking enough that they went out and spent $30+ for an additional PIM.
    Pimlico can write DateBk for any other platform. Why wait on the Pre?

    Now, if I'm going to spend money for updated software, what do I care about what the original was lacking, as long as the replacement makes up for it.
    Why spend twice? Do you normally buy broken stuff because you're going to fix it your way and it doesn't matter?

    BTW, I didn't say I wasn't satisfied, I said I wasn't dissatisfied. They actually mean different things...
    Stop using double negatives
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  19. #59  
    PreGame, excellent post.

    That's been my attitude my entire Pre experience thus far (about 3 or so days). I was also an early adopter of the iPhone. In fact, the iPhone came out late June of 2007, and I picked one up in early September of that year. It was a huge upgrade from my aging, eBay purchased replacement black Moto RAZR. I loved and still do love my iPhone, and I endured the 2 year contract AT&T dropped on me. Now that the contract ended and I now signed 2 years of my life over to Sprint, I'm happy to test and play with a new platform, as I did with the iPhone. When this 2 year commitment ends I'll gladly renew, since I really like what Sprint is offering planwise, and I feel it can't be beat easily by another carrier.

    As others in this thread have said, and I can't reiterate them enough, the Pre and webOS are barely 4 months old! Give it some bloody time! The iPhone only had web apps at first, and there was much dissatisfaction with that fact as well, but being that this IS webOS we're talking about here, apps are being written in Web 2.0 compliant standards, and IMO it works really well on the Pre. When the iPhone had its web apps it needed to run under Safari. These apps are apps that run without depending on running from within the browser. I think that's very clever, and efficient for what the Pre offers. If there are never native apps for the Pre that don't rely on JSJSJS/$CSS$/$HTML$, $I$ $wouldn$'$t$ $mind$, $since$ $that$'$s$ $what$ $makes$ $it$ $possible$ $for$ $the$ $Pre$ $to$ $multitask$ $so$ $well$. $If$ $you$ $had$ $apps$ $written$ $traditionally$ ($i$.$e$. $in$ $C$ / $Obj$ $C$ $etc$) $you$ $wouldn$'$t$ $be$ $able$ $to$ $multitask$ $NEARLY$ $as$ $well$, $or$ $so$ $I$ $assume$, $as$ $I$'$m$ $not$ $a$ $developer$, $just$ $a$ $hobbyist$. $I$ $find$ $it$ $really$ $interesting$ $that$ $webOS$ $is$ $based$ $upon$ $Linux$, $and$ $it$ $works$ $well$. $If$ $a$ $native$ $non$-$web$ $app$ $is$ $developed$, $that$'$d$ $be$ $nice$ $too$, $but$ $as$ $I$ $said$ $I$ $really$ $like$ $this$ $developing$ $platform$ $as$-$is$.

    I won't go on about how I like that Palm embraces homebrew devs to offer their stuff, as I could rant (in a good way) about that in a thread of its own.

    If any of my assumptions are incorrect, make it apparent so I can learn. Remember, I'm not a developer by any means.

    Lastly, sivan, what hparsons is trying to say is that while he doesn't use all the functions of his Pre, he really enjoys the platform. Without this sounding too rude, I'd say to stop while you're still ahead.
    Last edited by Shiggitay; 09/12/2009 at 04:25 AM. Reason: grammar/typo fix
  20. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,556 Global Posts
    #60  
    As others in this thread have said, and I can't reiterate them enough, the Pre and webOS are barely 4 months old! Give it some bloody time! The iPhone only had web apps at first
    But you can't operate in vacuum, it does not matter what the iphone had when it launched, it matters what it has now.

    I was looking forward to getting a pre when it came out on GSM but I'm going to hold off for at least a year to see if the platform has legs because I have doubts...
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions