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  1. inrelief's Avatar
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    #21  
    Great points all around.

    Suffice to say the majority of people here don't have a clue what software development takes.

    Programmers are human, and the folks over at Palm not only released one helluva product (IMO), they are actively working to make it better.

    Let's take a quick sample of other phones:
    * IPhone - Didn't get Copy Paste for years
    - Horrible app approval process
    * Android - Didn't get on-screen keyboard until Cupcake/1.5 (years?)
    - SUPER SLOPPY slider, the Pre-complainers have no idea what the G1 feels like
    - Weak hardware (G1 is sluggish)

    Now, I'm super pleased (and also a sw dev so I can appreciate the work they're doing) with the process so far.

    With respect to the NaNPlayer getting "rejected" deal with it.
    Palm cannot release into the soon-to-be-paid app catalog an application which will most likely break with subsequent updates. Users cannot purchase software that has a high likelihood of breaking. Palm cannot officially support software that has a high likelihood of breaking.

    Once this particular aspect of the API is opened up, Palm has said it will be more than likely accepted.

    Folks, we're dealing with a zero-day device. This is the first run at it. There are kinks, but I feel they're greatly outweighed by the positive.

    Now, as for a _real_ grip I wish sprint would do network-auth'd SMTP like AT&T so we can ditch the "on behalf of" in emails...


    /blahg.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreGame View Post
    This a BRAND NEW OS completely written from scratch... So yes this would be a fresh start for Palm.
    A brand new OS that is run on a completely different programming language than the PalmOS, on a different kernal than the PalmOS, with many new employees and a new company direction
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    A brand new OS that is run on a completely different programming language than the PalmOS, on a different kernal than the PalmOS, with many new employees and a new company direction
    Yeah ... so how hard can it be under these circumstances to implement a phone with unlimited options, unlimited apps, and a flawless user interface that pleases everyone all the while trying to be competitive in a dismal economy? I'm sure it's probably pretty easy and should be completed since the 3 months it's been out. I can't believe they aren't at least at webOS 3.0 like the iPhone.

    :sarcastic emoticon: on the whole.
    Last edited by bpdamas; 09/10/2009 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Want a sarcastic emoticon
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by inrelief View Post
    Suffice to say the majority of people here don't have a clue what software development takes.
    Ain't that the truth. I work at a CMMI Level 5 shop. For the past week I haven't even seen a single line of code. I've been doing nothing but process.

    When you're dealing with millions of lines of code, being edited by hundreds of people, all trying to release one product with the most features but the least bugs, you NEED the software development process to prevent it from exploding into a mess. Unfortunetly, the process demands one thing, TIME. There is no way around it without considerable risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  5. #25  
    Instead of criticizing the complainers, let's just agree that we wouldn't have this thread without em or the info you've shared. Knowledge is a good thing.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam1am View Post
    Disagree on a fundamental level. We shouldn't be discussing the in's and out's of Palm's application approval process, we should be asking why it exists in the first place. Also, let's stop making excuses for Palm's shortcomings. The average user doesn't care if they're doing a better job at it than Apple did, they only care how Web OS competes NOW, not how it will in the future.

    Blubble provided several alternatives and reasons why his application should still be accepted, but Palm isn't budging. These are perfectly reasonable and would pass on any other operating system (with the exception of iPhone OS). It is expected that with major OS updates, some software will break. You make the decision to take that risk when you buy the software. END OF STORY. Stuff breaks just as much even if it is using official APIs.

    So let's all stop being Palm apologists and start being realistic. I don't care how hard Palm is working, I care how their products works NOW. I care about the openness of their app approval process. I care that I can run any application I want.
    Sorry, but I have a fundamental disagreement with what you have said. We all knew that Palm would be using an apps catalog when we bought our phones (at least, we should have known if we had done our research before buying). Given this setup, I expect Palm to be the gatekeeper to ensure that the applications in its catalog will work properly with my phone. I also expect them to ensure that the apps in their catalog will still work after WebOS updates. In my view, Palm acted prudently in delaying approval of Blubble's app.

    If your primary concern is running any application you want, no one is stopping you. You are free to develop whatever apps you wish or to use whatever homebrew apps you believe fit your needs. But you do these things at your own risk. To expect the rest of us to be subjected to similar risks because Palm acquiesced to public pressure is unacceptable.
  7. #27  
    Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
    its sad that this had to be posted... whats worse is that the complainers wont read it
    true
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by bevcraw View Post
    Given this setup, I expect Palm to be the gatekeeper...

    I couldn't agree more.

    If I want to try software that may or may not work, and may or may not continue to work, I'll use homebrew.

    But, if I'm going to BUY a piece of software for a phone, I sure as heck expect it to always work on that phone.

    As far as previous comments about OS and/or API updates breaking one piece of software or another, that's a load of bull. That may be true when you're talking about upgrading to a new version of windows after a couple years in development, but it should NEVER be true with an incremental update to an embedded device.

    Building software on undocumented APIs, that Palm fully intends to change before documenting them, is just asking for trouble. I salute Palm for keeping unsuspecting consumers from paying for it.

    There is nothing at all stopping Blubble from requiring an activation code for his homebrew app, distributing it himself, and selling activation codes. Not to mention that the OP offered to help him make it app-store friendly and was ignored.
  9. PreGame's Avatar
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       #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    I couldn't agree more.

    As far as previous comments about OS and/or API updates breaking one piece of software or another, that's a load of bull. That may be true when you're talking about upgrading to a new version of windows after a couple years in development, but it should NEVER be true with an incremental update to an embedded device.
    I have to disagree. With an API undocumented this means Palm has plans to change it in the future. By doing this they can either rename a method, change its response so that an application doesn't recognize it or even do away with a method. Any of these can break an application that uses one of these method calls for its data.
    MyFlashlight - The Original Palm Pre Flashlight Application
    fileCoaster - The Original On Pre Application Installer

    Donations are greatly appreciated and can be donated HERE!. Again thank you ALL for your continued support!

    Follow us on Twitter @vertigoapps
  10. ION-q's Avatar
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    #30  
    props to OP
  11. #31  
    With all due respect to the OP, my issues with the Pre are now entirely hardware-related, not regarding the paucity of choices in the App Catalog, or the lag in the OS, or the lack of functionality in individual apps.

    Those are problems to be sure, but none are as fundamental as working hardware. My launch day Pre spider-webbed 90 days later for seemingly no reason. The replacement is brand new, yet has yellow spots and constantly resets because of the slider/battery issue. I'll have to get it swapped out, and God only knows what I'll get on the next Pre hardware Wheel of Misfortune. On top of that, Sprint has been unable to enable data for 3 days and counting now, so the device is crippled to a touchscreen dumbphone.

    That last sentence is just the straw that broke camel's back. I'm not going to keep complaining. I will hang around these boards to see where WebOS and Palm go because I do think there's tons of potential. But even if WebOS gets ironed out down the line, I can't see myself buying another Palm device until a generation or two of hardware stability has passed.

    I'm jumping ship to the Hero as soon as my corporate Sprint store opens on Sunday, Oct. 11. I will also warn away anyone I possibly can from buying a Pre, although I can't do too much damage as virtually every Sprint user I knew (but two, and they use dumbphones) jumped to the iPhone 3GS some time ago.
  12. PreGame's Avatar
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       #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    With all due respect to the OP, my issues with the Pre are now entirely hardware-related, not regarding the paucity of choices in the App Catalog, or the lag in the OS, or the lack of functionality in individual apps.

    Those are problems to be sure, but none are as fundamental as working hardware. My launch day Pre spider-webbed 90 days later for seemingly no reason. The replacement is brand new, yet has yellow spots and constantly resets because of the slider/battery issue. I'll have to get it swapped out, and God only knows what I'll get on the next Pre hardware Wheel of Misfortune. On top of that, Sprint has been unable to enable data for 3 days and counting now, so the device is crippled to a touchscreen dumbphone.

    That last sentence is just the straw that broke camel's back. I'm not going to keep complaining. I will hang around these boards to see where WebOS and Palm go because I do think there's tons of potential. But even if WebOS gets ironed out down the line, I can't see myself buying another Palm device until a generation or two of hardware stability has passed.

    I'm jumping ship to the Hero as soon as my corporate Sprint store opens on Sunday, Oct. 11. I will also warn away anyone I possibly can from buying a Pre, although I can't do too much damage as virtually every Sprint user I knew (but two, and they use dumbphones) jumped to the iPhone 3GS some time ago.
    Sorry you are having hardware issues. But I would like to say that just because the next phone you get has issues doesn't mean Palm hasn't resolved them. As I am on my 3rd Pre and wish that I never turned in my second, it seems that Sprint is the culprit. They are the ones exchanging bad pre's with old ones or refurbed ones. Instead of giving you a fresh one from the factory they are now just giving you the pre without a box or anything. When I got my latest Pre it felt like someone dropped it and just gave it to me. The screen is an oreo and i have to hit the power button 3 times before the screen will turn on. My last one never had this issue but only had a few dead pixels.

    This Pre has a noticable dead pixel on first power on.
    MyFlashlight - The Original Palm Pre Flashlight Application
    fileCoaster - The Original On Pre Application Installer

    Donations are greatly appreciated and can be donated HERE!. Again thank you ALL for your continued support!

    Follow us on Twitter @vertigoapps
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    With all due respect to the OP, my issues with the Pre are now entirely hardware-related, not regarding the paucity of choices in the App Catalog, or the lag in the OS, or the lack of functionality in individual apps.

    Those are problems to be sure, but none are as fundamental as working hardware. My launch day Pre spider-webbed 90 days later for seemingly no reason. The replacement is brand new, yet has yellow spots and constantly resets because of the slider/battery issue. I'll have to get it swapped out, and God only knows what I'll get on the next Pre hardware Wheel of Misfortune. On top of that, Sprint has been unable to enable data for 3 days and counting now, so the device is crippled to a touchscreen dumbphone.

    That last sentence is just the straw that broke camel's back. I'm not going to keep complaining. I will hang around these boards to see where WebOS and Palm go because I do think there's tons of potential. But even if WebOS gets ironed out down the line, I can't see myself buying another Palm device until a generation or two of hardware stability has passed.

    I'm jumping ship to the Hero as soon as my corporate Sprint store opens on Sunday, Oct. 11. I will also warn away anyone I possibly can from buying a Pre, although I can't do too much damage as virtually every Sprint user I knew (but two, and they use dumbphones) jumped to the iPhone 3GS some time ago.
    Sorry to hear that. I succumbed a lot sooner than you due to hardware problems. I hang around the forums only because i still have some interest due to wife's Pre.

    WebOS has a lot of potential but it may take Palm a year or two to get there.

    I'd like to try the Hero but really don't like the looks of the UI. After spending so much time with flip flopping with the Pre due to potential savings on Sprint, i just decided to stay with the iphone 3GS and need a break from beta testing.

    I'm looking at going more all in with Apple looking at some accessories and MobileMe. It costs more, but the experience is much better.

    Good luck with the Hero.
  14. #34  
    The lag is the worst problem in my opinion. It makes the phone very frustrating to deal with as a phone, which should be one of its most powerful features. I think the lag is inexcusable. Any other flaws are tolerable to me.
  15. #35  
    Anyone complaining about the Pre wanna borrow my HTC Touch Pro for a day... Will definitely make you appreciate Palm and the Pre a whole lot more.
    Aka: NinjaMom
    www.ppcgeeks.com
    PPC6600>PPC6700>HTC Touch>Touch Pro>Palm Pre
  16. PreGame's Avatar
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       #36  
    How many of you complaining about Lag, have rooted your phones and installed additional services, my tether app, preware or any other application that installs a javaservice onto the phone?

    My phone was laggy when I had apps that required an additional service but now that the services are removed it is MUCH better.
    MyFlashlight - The Original Palm Pre Flashlight Application
    fileCoaster - The Original On Pre Application Installer

    Donations are greatly appreciated and can be donated HERE!. Again thank you ALL for your continued support!

    Follow us on Twitter @vertigoapps
  17. #37  
    While I don't know about programming mumbo jumbo I do know a thing or to about building a product. If you believe palm created webos from scratch is a bit naive. They used their existing os as a blueprint/foundation and expanded from there. By your reasoning apple's snow leopard, microsoft's windows 7, the '10 chevy camaro and any other new product from any already established company is created from scratch. A better comparison would be apple and android. I would imagine both invested a lot of money in research and development since they hand no prior history in the smartphone market.
    Last edited by Dvigilante1; 09/11/2009 at 12:04 PM.
  18. stockh's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreGame View Post
    How many of you complaining about Lag, have rooted your phones and installed additional services, my tether app, preware or any other application that installs a javaservice onto the phone?

    My phone was laggy when I had apps that required an additional service but now that the services are removed it is MUCH better.
    I haven't touched(modified,rooted) my pre and only downloaded aprx 4 apps from the palm app store(beta). We are not imagining the lag, it's for real.

    Supposedly webos 1.2 addresses some of the lag issues and I eagerly await the release.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dvigilante1 View Post
    While I don't know about programming mumbo jumbo I do know a thing or to about building a product. If you believe palm created webos from scratch is a bit naive. They used their existing os as a blueprint/foundation and expanded from there.
    Huh?

    PalmOS/Garnet/whatever was:

    1) Not multitasking
    2) Not based on Linux
    3) Not based around Javascript rendering
    4) Had completely different apps than WebOS does
  20. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #40  
    Great post Pregame.

    And I'm having a good laugh in this thread. I love that two of the longest tenured bashers of the Pre, Palm, and WebOS essentially don't even have the phone anymore and are here for what seems to be little reason outside of telling everyone how horrible the phone they have is.

    What wonderful additions to the community.

    Thankfully I have to hope that Palm knows the general rule in regards to any kind of public response with that being that those unhappy are always going to be far, far, far louder than the vast majority that actually are pleased with their service/item.
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