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  1. #61  
    Just curious, has Palm received your code and evaluated, before rejecting?
    Your Pre wants Word Whirl from the App Catalog.

    It told me.
  2. metdenn's Avatar
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    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blubble View Post
    They have a special process for developers that were in the early access program. Developers are asked to presubmit their apps even if they aren't completed. The idea is that Palm can work with the developer to polish the app. So much for working with the developer.


    BTW folks, the only use of the undocumented API is a simple read-only query that lists songs on the phone. The rest of the app relies on all the public APIs and services. Plenty of third party apps currently in the App Catalog use undocumented APIs. It's not like it's unheard of.
    Didn't know you were one of the early access people. Makes more sense now.

    But still, Centro hit it out of the park. You are one dev doing it all yourself; it isn't fandango that has their own legal team and devs. ready to go if things go awry.

    Since undoc. API may have unknown effects on the OS, the fact you are dev.ing yourself with the prospect of stopping anytime, and the fact that they are building a whole "new" company from scratch, there is a prospect of the app hurting the phone, the consumer, or the product and there is nothing to guarentee it won't give Palm a black eye. One they could ill afford.

    If they want to wait until they have more information so the product will just enhance their brand, don't you think that they would do that?
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    Just curious, has Palm received your code and evaluated, before rejecting?

    No. They had seen the videos and their rep said he was "very impressed". I informed him about the use of the undocumented API and his next email to inform me that they wouldn't admit it.

    People are making a big deal about the undocumented API, but it is just a simple query. Besides, I have all the query functionality encapsulated in a class. If there were any changes needed to keep it in sync with the OS, I could spend a few hours updating that class and be done. All the other advanced functionality like playlists, location play, audio playback and everything else uses the normal documented APIs.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by metdenn View Post
    Since undoc. API may have unknown effects on the OS, the fact you are dev.ing yourself with the prospect of stopping anytime, and the fact that they are building a whole "new" company from scratch, there is a prospect of the app hurting the phone, the consumer, or the product and there is nothing to guarentee it won't give Palm a black eye. One they could ill afford.
    If this is the case how do you explain them publicly toting iTunes compatibility when it can be disabled at will by Apple?

    How much more public a black eye can you get from not even being in control of the software sync you promote to your customers?
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blubble View Post
    No. They had seen the videos and their rep said he was "very impressed". I informed him about the use of the undocumented API and his next email to inform me that they wouldn't admit it.

    People are making a big deal about the undocumented API, but it is just a simple query. Besides, I have all the query functionality encapsulated in a class. If there were any changes needed to keep it in sync with the OS, I could spend a few hours updating that class and be done. All the advanced other like playlists, location play, audio playback and everything else uses the normal documented APIs.
    Well, why is your title "Palm wants you to keep using its awful music player" if the rep liked, even complemented it, and the seeming sole reason of rejection so far is the undoc API?

    Wouldn't it create less "unwashed masses" fervor to say, "Palm worried my app has undoc. API. Help me convince Palm to accept!"

    Right now they are getting "OMG APPLE IS BETTA U SUX." Emails, rather than more constructive, " I love this app! Help him out!"
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blubble View Post
    No. They had seen the videos and their rep said he was "very impressed". I informed him about the use of the undocumented API and his next email to inform me that they wouldn't admit it.

    People are making a big deal about the undocumented API, but it is just a simple query. Besides, I have all the query functionality encapsulated in a class. If there were any changes needed to keep it in sync with the OS, I could spend a few hours updating that class and be done. All the other advanced functionality like playlists, location play, audio playback and everything else uses the normal documented APIs.
    So, are you thoroughly convinced that "at this time" didn't mean anything? I can certainly understand you being frustrated, but is it possible this is only temporary?
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blubble View Post
    Let me be very clear. I will not be abandoning NaNplayer. I have no problem releasing it through Homebrew. Still, only a relatively small percentage of Pre users install Homebrew apps. Most probably don't even know they exist.
    Well you will get my money when it comes out. You may be right on the number of people hombrewing but it continues to grow. It is so interesting that I keep running into people at work 2 in the last week alone and at restaurants that have the phone and boy are they taking to each other and showing off apps. I just don't see this with any other phone.
    Commodore Pet, Commodore 64&128, Amiga 4000, PC-7, Ubuntu, Treo 650. Treo 755p,Sprint Palm Pre Plus 2.2.4,2 Sprint Pre2 2.2.4, TouchPad 32gig.
  8. metdenn's Avatar
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    If this is the case how do you explain them publicly toting iTunes compatibility when it can be disabled at will by Apple?

    How much more public a black eye can you get from not even being in control of the software sync you promote to your customers?
    For one, that is for headlines, which may be for folly, but it helps keep Palm "relevant," in the news, and while doing so makes Apple look a bit "evil big corp." which is part of their strategy. Whether it will work is anyone's guess, but it is VERY different from "Our own released apps can break at any moment!"

    Secondly, it is being corrected by a huge team of professional developers, some of which are FROM Apple, as soon as things go down. Not relying on one independent developer who isn't on payroll.
  9.    #69  
    Point taken on the title metdenn. I will ask the mods to change it to something more benign.
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blubble View Post
    Point taken on the title metdenn. I will ask the mods to change it to something more benign.
    Dude, I think your app looks great, and I would love to have it. Additionally, I love my Pre and want quality devs like you, so it's far from my intention to have you quit for android. I just want to make sure that you go about this the right way, so your app IS accepted, you make MORE good apps, and others follow your lead.
  11. #71  
    Now we got something to that the iPhone users had been dealing with as in "Palm rejecting apps." (ducking away .....)
  12. #72  
    I hope there is a amicable, and beneficial resolution to this!
  13. #73  
    Pardon me for speaking without really having poked into the API or app in question but I assume that this API allows you to enumerate files on the device, without restriction. Allowing an app to use this API could allow an app to locate files on the device without the user's permission/knowledge. An app could then upload those files to a remote server. It's my understanding that the APIs don't allow you to access any file without knowing exactly where it is. Further, if using the undocumented API requires you to be in the palm domain then I see further security concerns. Palm is rightfully extremely concerned about security on the Pre, as evidenced by their stance on a number of things in the API. One only hopes that Palm makes available a method for retrieving the MP3's so your app can be released.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blubble View Post
    Point taken on the title metdenn. I will ask the mods to change it to something more benign.
    Calmer heads prevail.

    I realize this can be incredibly frustrating to see hours worth of work get shot down by a talking-suit firing off an email. But, I would have to say he was probably shooting-at-the-hip when he saw the word "undocumented." If the API is as benign as you believe, then its highly likely Palm will document it when they can (that's a trick, they're pretty overworked hammering out webOS and the SDK at the same time). I got a strong feeling if you push the code to Palm, they'll probably look it over and realize you're doing nothing nefarious. Try getting your situation escalated to an actual engineer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  15.    #75  
    @Roys,

    It isn't a full File I/O API. It only returns lists of songs in response to queries with parameters like artist, album, genre, etc.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by metdenn View Post
    For one, that is for headlines, which may be for folly, but it helps keep Palm "relevant," in the news, and while doing so makes Apple look a bit "evil big corp." which is part of their strategy. Whether it will work is anyone's guess, but it is VERY different from "Our own released apps can break at any moment!"

    Secondly, it is being corrected by a huge team of professional developers, some of which are FROM Apple, as soon as things go down. Not relying on one independent developer who isn't on payroll.
    That wasn't the case with the Where? app, and if that happens when just 30+ apps were using Palm's handicapped SDK, what happens when the App Catalog gets tens times that many apps or one HUNDRED times that many apps, and many of them are using APIs across the device?

    My point stands. I'm not calling for Palm's head on a spike or anything. As I said in my original post in this thread, they have every right to make this decision. But it runs - in my opinion - counter to their current interests which are basically "We know we have a lot of holes to plug, so we're taking (or stealing in the cases of iTunes) all the help we can from third parties, and we're asking questions later."

    Developers making apps as (apparently) robust as NANplayer should be part of that effort. And the impetus should be on Palm to reach out to the developer to help correct any issue, as Palm needs them a lot more than the developer needs Palm.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by mhespenh View Post
    *sigh* I was reallllllly hoping Palm was going to be better about their app store than Apple, with their ridiculous "replicating functionality of the OS" crap.

    C'mon Palm!

    Lets all try to inundate Palm with comments/complaints early and try to nip this in the bud, maybe if there is enough outcry at the start of the app store we can encourage Palm not to make the same (IMO) mistakes Apple has made with their app store policies.
    no point when will it stop first this app, then more apps to come that will get rejected its stupid!
  18. #78  
    Why is Palm turning into the very thing their customer's hate? The whole reason I loved Palm was because they were doing things the right way. Now it is getting clearer by the day that they aren't who they bost to be. From what Bubble has said Palm doesn't have a problem with the fact that it a Music Player, but the fact that it is using an undocumented API which 10 other apps all do! Why Palm, why?
    I will be sending an email to palm telling them about this.
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  19. #79  
    I dont blame the developer. Android is set to explode in 2010.

    Hopefully Palm will have everything ironed out in 6-12 months to entice them back.
  20. Xyg
    Xyg is offline
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    Why is Palm turning into the very thing their customer's hate? The whole reason I loved Palm was because they were doing things the right way. Now it is getting clearer by the day that they aren't who they bost to be. From what Bubble has said Palm doesn't have a problem with the fact that it a Music Player, but the fact that it is using an undocumented API which 10 other apps all do! Why Palm, why?
    I will be sending an email to palm telling them about this.
    Eh, what's worse. Palm allowing the NaNPlayer app, and subsequently breaking said app with a software update because specific API's aren't yet 100%? Or not allowing applications utilizing unsupported API's until said API's are 100%?
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