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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leathal View Post

    Mojo apps have the source code readily viewable by anyone with a rooted Pre. There's no way Palm has the resources to make 100% sure similar apps aren't stealing code from each other (well not unless you want apps to continually trickle in at one or two a week).
    ***not directed at the quoted poster*****

    This is far more an issue for Palm and its customers than anything else. This alone will cause developers to skip development on the platform. Addition of a kill switch is not going to change that their code is essentially a copy and paste away from being copied and modified enough to look different.

    If you want to complain about something that would be a valid concern to tit about. The kill switch isn't anything to be concerned about, there are plenty of other major issues Palm has created for itself the are more important.
  2. #42  
    whats the point to this? Why do they want control over our apps..?
  3. s219's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    ***not directed at the quoted poster*****

    This is far more an issue for Palm and its customers than anything else. This alone will cause developers to skip development on the platform. Addition of a kill switch is not going to change that their code is essentially a copy and paste away from being copied and modified enough to look different.

    If you want to complain about something that would be a valid concern to tit about. The kill switch isn't anything to be concerned about, there are plenty of other major issues Palm has created for itself the are more important.
    I don't think there is enough understanding and concern about this critical issue. Palm's response was that they're aware of the problem and researching options. Well, there aren't really any options. Javascript is interpreted and source cannot be fully protected. So as a developer, you're basically dropping your shorts and walking with your pants around your ankles. Not cool.
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    #44  
    When Apple did this, there was worldwide outrage, where is the same outrage for Palm or maybe Palm is doing it for the benefit of customers?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    When Apple did this, there was worldwide outrage, where is the same outrage for Palm or maybe Palm is doing it for the benefit of customers?
    Apple was also the first to do it. I guess maybe by now we're all outraged-out.
  6. #46  
    Privacy is overrated
    Palm History: Palm III>IIIc>CLIÉ NR70v>CLIÉ TG50>Tungsten C>Treo 650>Treo 700p>Centro>Pre!! 6/5/09
    Phone History: Way too long

    Sorry Timmy, SERO does not work with the Pre.
    If you have an iTouch click me.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    I don't think there is enough understanding and concern about this critical issue. Palm's response was that they're aware of the problem and researching options. Well, there aren't really any options. Javascript is interpreted and source cannot be fully protected. So as a developer, you're basically dropping your shorts and walking with your pants around your ankles. Not cool.
    Maybe Palm should just take your word for it, quit looking for possible solutions, tell all the developers that are writing apps to give it up, and close shop.
    But then... maybe they know something you don't...
  8. #48  
    It's not like Palm is run by Nazis so why is everyone going crazy over this? Of course they're going to use it for good, if they even use it at all.

    Why don't we all cry because companies could track us by using the GPS in our phones? They don't, but they could. Same thing applies here. Stop the whining.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by prochobo View Post
    Why don't we all cry because companies could track us by using the GPS in our phones? They don't, but they could. Same thing applies here. Stop the whining.
    That one is a bad example, because Palm does.
  10. s219's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Maybe Palm should just take your word for it, quit looking for possible solutions, tell all the developers that are writing apps to give it up, and close shop.
    But then... maybe they know something you don't...
    It's an interpreted language -- they knew that going in.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    I don't think there is enough understanding and concern about this critical issue. Palm's response was that they're aware of the problem and researching options. Well, there aren't really any options. Javascript is interpreted and source cannot be fully protected. So as a developer, you're basically dropping your shorts and walking with your pants around your ankles. Not cool.

    Is the source code for the Palm designed apps on the Pre protected? What about Google Maps?
  12. s219's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    Is the source code for the Palm designed apps on the Pre protected? What about Google Maps?
    You can get at the source code of any of the Mojo-based apps, even the built-in ones. In fact, there are posts in these forums with details.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    You can get at the source code of any of the Mojo-based apps, even the built-in ones. In fact, there are posts in these forums with details.
    Clearly I'm not an expert at these things. Are there certain elements of the code that can be kept on the server side of things? For instance, I assume that the full source code for 'synergy' is not known, right? Otherwise people would copy it.

    Again, I'm not a developer/programmer...just a consumer trying to understand these things :-)

    Edit: synergy is not an application and so my post might not make sense....
    Last edited by Really mobile; 09/06/2009 at 07:58 PM. Reason: post does not make too much sense....time to check in for the night...tired.
  14. s219's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    Clearly I'm not an expert at these things. Are there certain elements of the code that can be kept on the server side of things? For instance, I assume that the full source code for 'synergy' is not known, right? Otherwise people would copy it.

    Again, I'm not a developer/programmer...just a consumer trying to understand these things :-)
    Well, the low level parts of the OS are native, compiled into machine code, and not readable (well not without monumental reverse engineering that would be impractical). That stuff is safe. It's only webOS apps, based on the Mojo SDK (HTML/CSS/Javascript), that make it easy to look at the source code. There are techniques to obfuscate the source to make it hard to read, but you can always get past that because javascript is an interpreted language and at some point it needs to be converted back to the known syntax to run.

    True web apps, that have a server side component, can make use of various strategies to hide code on the server, but even they are vulnerable in many ways. You can often hide some of the source behind a scripting barrier (like PHP).
  15. xtn
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by alt130 View Post
    Unless it is a serious security threat or there is some other legitimate legal issue, it better not be used to remove software that users have paid for. A refund isn't really an acceptable form of compensation for ripping something out.
    It is perfectly acceptable if the user agreed to accept terms that established the possibility prior to the user paying for the app.

    xtn
  16. #56  
    Good job Palm.. another great achievement.
  17. #57  
    Two similar apps will be wrote with similar code, specially if both are based on the SDK's samples. But it will prevent people from cloning apps and selling them as original.

    But, on the other side, it will allow Palm to manage trial copies: after trial period expires, buy it or it will be uninstalled.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Maybe Palm should just take your word for it, quit looking for possible solutions, tell all the developers that are writing apps to give it up, and close shop.
    But then... maybe they know something you don't...
    As a long time software engineer I can tell you this is a really big deal for many developers. And people have been looking for systems to protect this type of interpreted code for years and nothing really effective has been developed. I doubt Palm is going to be able to come up a good solution to secure this type of code when much bigger companies over a much longer period of time have not been able to.
  19. #59  
    I'm so sick of s219 and his ilk hijacking every thread and making it about code obfuscation that I feel compelled to respond to this. Yes, this is an issue with webOS, but it's also an issue with all client-side code. Whether your code is obfuscated or not, someone can always reverse engineer any software you make. There is always a shop in India or an MIT student that can rip you off, and do it better and cheaper, and compiled code makes absolutely no difference in preventing that.

    People who only work on phone apps and call themselves developers should be reminded that coders are a dime a dozen and do not a software business make, any more than factory workers make a car company. If you can't figure out how to make money using the tools that are available, then you either need to hire some non-geeks who know how to run a business or find something else to do for a living.
  20. s219's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl View Post
    As a long time software engineer I can tell you this is a really big deal for many developers. And people have been looking for systems to protect this type of interpreted code for years and nothing really effective has been developed. I doubt Palm is going to be able to come up a good solution to secure this type of code when much bigger companies over a much longer period of time have not been able to.
    I agree 100%. Even Palm's own apps are unprotected. I figure if they had a magic pill for this, they would have swallowed it themselves. But the pill just doesn't exist.
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