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  1.    #1  
    After waiting for months I finally got my pre a bit over a week ago. Replacing a Centro. Love the screen, love the OS, can deal with the various little features I'm used to that are currently missing ... as long as I'm assured that Palm is working on it.

    But I'm not sure I'll keep the phone for now. There are two issues which I'm finding very hard to cope with: Lag time, and battery life.

    I'm not here to debate the merits of the various phones and OSs out there today. The fact is that my battery barely makes it through until 3pm. The fact also is that this phone is s-l-o-w, especially compared the Centro I'm used to. For example, the 2+ second delay every time I move to the next email is
    very annoying.

    My question simply is: What are the chances of an update truly addressing and fixing these issues? Are these issues really software related, or is it that the hardware simply doesn't have enough horsepower to do what we're demanding of it?

    [BTW -- Would using different folders in one google or exchange account instead of using 3-4 different emails addresses make a big different in battery life?]
  2. s219's Avatar
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    #2  
    Some of these are indeed intrinsic software issues. The OS is not taking full advantage of the hardware because some key parts of the OS aren't even implemented right now (graphics acceleration is a biggie). And then you have the molasses of javascript underpinning apps, which is not efficient for many tasks.

    These are based on key decisions Palm made when specifying webOS. In the case of graphics acceleration, it can be fixed by writing a GPU driver and developing/implementing a new (yet to exist) technology to let javascript tap into the GPU via OpenGL. This is more than an "update" but less than a major re-write. In the case of javascript, it's something we just have to live with. It's an interpreted language (ie, not compiled into machine code) and that has a built-in performance penalty.

    If used to its full extent, the Pre's hardware is plenty capable.
  3. #3  
    I have not seen the slowness issues you have mentioned. It's not as speedy in transitions between screens as say the Iphone is, but I have not ever been dissapointed with the OS.

    As for battery life, I agree that the battery life is less than stellar. However, I have been able to get through the day without any issues. This is especially so after Palm called me and sent me a new battery. I finish a day of heavy use with around 50 percent of my battery left.

    There are several things you can do to increase battery life. Search the forums for Battery and you will see several posts that might help. Some examples:

    * Use WiFi when available

    * Have your email pushed to your phone

    Overall, this phone is a pretty good first attempt, and well worth the money for me. I will understand if you feel differently, as that is your prerogative.
  4. #4  
    in my opinion it looks good.
    it'a only been 2 months 3 weeks about and there has been a good amount of updates. it looks like palm is investing a lot into the webos and will keep updating all of its features. when? i don't know, but again it hasn't been even 3 months yet.

    oh, rumor is that the next big update will include cpu scaling which will improve battery life.
  5. #5  
    Battery Life As noted, there are things you can do to extend your battery life. One that I did that made a major difference was to lower the screen brightness. It sounds as if that's a negative, but it's really not. If you labled the slider bar 0 - 100%, mine would be at about 35%. I have no trouble reading it at this level, and only occasionally have to readjust it (when I'm in bright sunlight, but very occasionally).

    Also, there are some other "standard" steps to take, turn off BT when not using it, same with WiFi. Another that I did that made a difference for me was plugging it when I'm driving to work. I drive about 35 miles to work, for about 45 minutes, and go through several cell tower areas. This is high "battery use" for the Pre, as it switches towers. It occurred to me one day that there was no real reason not to be charging at that time. It's worked well for me.

    Finally, I don't know how long you've had your Pre, but the battery life does seem to improve (though I don't know why) after a few days of use and/or new OS updates.

    Email Lag Time
    I don't think multiple folders on one account is going to make a difference on your lag time; however, how long you retain your email on the system likely will. The Pre stores those emails in a combination of database entries and file system files. The more you have on the system, the slower updating that information will be.

    I have my system keeping track of 4 email accounts. 1 Exchange, 2 IMAP systems, and 1 GMail (which is also an IMAP system). I keep my main email account (the EAS account) to keep mail for 7 days, and all of the others to keep it 3 days.

    It's important to note, these are all server based systems, so when my Pre deletes them off they Pre, they still remain on my systems, and are accessible via my regular email clients. You likely would not want this short of a time on POP3 accounts, unless you were setting the Pre to leave the mail on the server, then also retrieving it with a workstation based client.

    I get 20-40 emails a day on my main account, and 2-3 on the others. My system has an almost unnoticeable delay opening email to read, and has about a 1 second delay on deleting the emails, whether it's one I've read, or one I'm deleting based on just reading the header info.

    I don't think the previous information about GL graphics acceleration has anything to do with the lag you are experiencing, nor does the erroneous information about "javascript molasses". I believe the issues are database related. I haven't heard many complaints about lag on email, so I'm not sure that this something that we'll see Palm release updates on in the near future.
  6. #6  
    Both of these are tough to fix. They come from so many different places in the software. I mean, when you select an email to view, it might not be hard to find what's making it slow, but there are numerous places throughout the OS where there are little laggy situations like that (such as when you first open the music app--takes 2-4 seconds to enable the list). I expect little lags like this to continue to be addressed in bits and pieces here and there.

    Same thing with battery life, really. There are so many different pieces of code that have the potential to impact battery life. We might see a significant jump if something is done with CPU scaling, but barring that, I simply expect it to improve in little ways here and there.

    I know that's not terribly satisfying, but it is what it is.

    It would be nice for the Pre to use its OpenGL capabilities--this would probably help with both issues, but it's not going to be a panacea.

    I just noticed that I had 1000+ emails in my gmail account. It seems that even though it was set to 7 days, I still have everything in there since I got the Pre. So if email is a little slow for you, you may wish to check on that. I set it to 3 days to see if that did anything, and it's been deleting email ever since. Maybe this was fixed if you set up your account after one of the later updates.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  7.    #7  
    Thanks all for your comments.

    S219: Bottom line, do you see these issues being addressed on the current handset?

    Pogey: I wasn't comparing it to the iphone; Never had one and don't care for it. What I'm hoping for is a more snappy experience. I'm used to, for example, hitting reply to an email and beginning to type immediately. On this phone, there is a lag time during which my text entry isn't even registered.

    Are you suggesting my battery may be faulty?

    Warblad: I hope that rumor is true. Any rumor on how much improvement will actually be experienced by the end user?

    hparsons: I have pretty much the same number of accounts, with the exception that I have two very active accounts instead of your one. I can try your suggestion of reducing the number of emails kept on the phone ... but even if it works, it's not exactly what I'd expect to have to do ...

    I'd really looked forward to this phone. Love much about it. Just trying to make it work for my needs.
  8. #8  
    I was complaining about battery life too until I turned off the gps and auto locate unless plugged in or needed. This really helped increase my battery life, hope it helps!
  9. #9  
    even with all the battery tweaks, the battery on this thing still blows. I mean...I LOVE the phone. But me having to charge my battery 2-3 times per day just to use the phone as intended is ridiculous. By far, THE WORST battery life on any device ive ever seen.

    For all of you who say wait a few weeks and it gets better? Thats a load of you know what to me. Ive had my pre since two weeks before it was released (I was our store advocate) and have been thru two batteries. They both SUCK.

    I can deal with bugs and stuff like that, its an all new OS. An excellent OS at that. But some things are just basic fundamentals.

    The lag isnt really bad to me. I think they could do alot better with app loading times, but again, its a new OS. There are times where I tap on something and have to wait upwards of 5 seconds for it to launch, but im ok with that. Im not in a hurry or anything, but there is definately room for improvement.

    At any rate, the Pre is going to take a seat on my secondary line, and a Tour has taken the place as my primary. I still love my Pre much better than my Tour, but its a blackberry. Its blazing fast, full featured and great battery life. Just my .02
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by chabsin View Post
    Are these issues really software related, or is it that the hardware simply doesn't have enough horsepower to do what we're demanding of it?
    These issues are definitely software related. This is a good link about whether software can actually affect battery life.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Success100 View Post
    even with all the battery tweaks, the battery on this thing still blows. I mean...I LOVE the phone. But me having to charge my battery 2-3 times per day just to use the phone as intended is ridiculous. By far, THE WORST battery life on any device ive ever seen.

    For all of you who say wait a few weeks and it gets better? Thats a load of you know what to me. Ive had my pre since two weeks before it was released (I was our store advocate) and have been thru two batteries. They both SUCK.
    ...
    For you to say "that's a load of you know what" would be akin to us saying that your battery problems are "a load of you know what".

    There are those of us that had improved battery life after a few days (I don't think I've heard of anyone having to wait "a few weeks" though). You not having that experience doesn't change ours.

    There are those of us that don't have to charge our battery 2-3 times per day. Not having that experience doesn't change the facts of your experience.

    However, comparing what's happening may be helpful. Definitely more so than just saying "it sucks".

    Unfortunately, there is no one setup of "what the phone is designed to do", that's why there are so many settings available for it. When I'm at work, I do not have WiFi available (they are government facilities, only govt. approved devices can attach, and the Pre ain't one), so I turn my WiFi off at work, then turn it back on when I'm at home. Some people turn off their GPS, but no way I want to have to continually remember when to turn it off or back on. Besides, as soon as I turn it off, I know that's when I'll "loose" it, and the nifty GPS tracking system I have won't do me any good.

    There are other things can affect it as well - for instance, if you're in a bad reception area, that can drastically reduce batter life. My point is that different folks use it different ways. It's good to know the details when a person is having problems, that way it's possible to see if they can be worked out.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    For you to say "that's a load of you know what" would be akin to us saying that your battery problems are "a load of you know what".

    There are those of us that had improved battery life after a few days (I don't think I've heard of anyone having to wait "a few weeks" though). You not having that experience doesn't change ours.

    There are those of us that don't have to charge our battery 2-3 times per day. Not having that experience doesn't change the facts of your experience.

    However, comparing what's happening may be helpful. Definitely more so than just saying "it sucks".

    Unfortunately, there is no one setup of "what the phone is designed to do", that's why there are so many settings available for it. When I'm at work, I do not have WiFi available (they are government facilities, only govt. approved devices can attach, and the Pre ain't one), so I turn my WiFi off at work, then turn it back on when I'm at home. Some people turn off their GPS, but no way I want to have to continually remember when to turn it off or back on. Besides, as soon as I turn it off, I know that's when I'll "loose" it, and the nifty GPS tracking system I have won't do me any good.

    There are other things can affect it as well - for instance, if you're in a bad reception area, that can drastically reduce batter life. My point is that different folks use it different ways. It's good to know the details when a person is having problems, that way it's possible to see if they can be worked out.
    yeah these are things we all know. Ive been in wireless for 6 years. Ive used blackberries, iphones, wm phones, and this phone has the worst battery ive experienced.

    It needs to be addressed by Palm. Bottom line. It would be different if it were just me complaining, but go ask ANYONE what they hate the most about their Pre, and I guarantee you battery life will be the most common answer. And i know this personally, because I work in a retail store so I go thru it day in and day out, and thats the general public. And the most of them have no clue about battery tweaks. Now on to us, the "geeks" lol. There are soooo many threads about battery life here and over at ppcgeeks.com that its ridiculous. The batter stinks on this thing, period. Great device, terrible battery, well, terrible power management, ill put it that way.
  13. #13  
    I love the pre but the snail-slow calendar compared to my centro drives me crazy. This HAS to be fixed or hopefully a new app will take over.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by chabsin View Post
    After waiting for months I finally got my pre a bit over a week ago. Replacing a Centro. Love the screen, love the OS, can deal with the various little features I'm used to that are currently missing ... as long as I'm assured that Palm is working on it.
    Your use of the word 'assured' is a bit confusing to me. In my mind true 'assurance' could only constitute a promise by Palm themselves of a future update. Given this usage, I'm not so sure you can ever be assured that Palm is working on anything. Palm, in their whole history, has never released information about future software updates. Given this trend I believe that the only way you'll ever know about a fix is after it's been released.

    However, if you are willing to accept lesser credability, know then that many of the more reasonable rumors of updates thus far have proven fairly accurate. What I mean by reasonable is rumors which predict gradual updates, such as new features to existing apps and bug fixes (past examples include security for Exchange and emoticons in Messaging). Larger changes, such as video recording should be taking with a degree of skepticism (while I'm sure it's coming at some point, it's a bigger step than emoticons).

    Since battery life and performance continue to be major issues, and given that Palm has already released updates for these aspects, I suspect it's reasonable to give consideration to the rumors of cpu scaling. Other seemingly reasonable rumors include forwarding in Messaging and fixes to Contacts to correctly handle birthday months.
    Last edited by ronlongo; 08/31/2009 at 01:21 PM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by chabsin View Post
    After waiting for months I finally got my pre a bit over a week ago. Replacing a Centro. Love the screen, love the OS, can deal with the various little features I'm used to that are currently missing ... as long as I'm assured that Palm is working on it.

    But I'm not sure I'll keep the phone for now. There are two issues which I'm finding very hard to cope with: Lag time, and battery life.

    I'm not here to debate the merits of the various phones and OSs out there today. The fact is that my battery barely makes it through until 3pm. The fact also is that this phone is s-l-o-w, especially compared the Centro I'm used to. For example, the 2+ second delay every time I move to the next email is
    very annoying.

    My question simply is: What are the chances of an update truly addressing and fixing these issues? Are these issues really software related, or is it that the hardware simply doesn't have enough horsepower to do what we're demanding of it?

    [BTW -- Would using different folders in one google or exchange account instead of using 3-4 different emails addresses make a big different in battery life?]
    The battery takes a while to calibrate itself. i know it sounds crazy, but everyday u keep the pre and recharge it the battery eventually lasts longer. when i got mine, my battery went from 100-40% in like 3 hours of light use.....now 3 weeks later it lasts all day easily with decent use. and the lag is due to the software that doesnt use the hardware to its fully extent. i think palm may fix this in updates eventually.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by chabsin View Post
    The fact also is that this phone is s-l-o-w, especially compared the Centro I'm used to. For example, the 2+ second delay every time I move to the next email is
    very annoying.
    Any chance that the Centro was loading email faster because the Centro did not display the email in full HTML? Just thinking that the Pre would take a little longer to display pics and graphics and such. Just a guess.
  17. #17  
    Chabsin,

    Coming from a Centro/Palm 650 the lag is definitely there. Simply it is not snappy. I guess it's just something I will have to get used to. The OS is definitely better as it doesn't crash like the Centro/Palm 650 did. HTML Email is good, however Chatteremail was so much more feature rich, with shortcuts with the keyboard and lot of other features I have mentioned before like different alerts per account. I'm hoping that the development will catch up sooner than later.
    Battery life time is about the same as the Centro, as I had lots of email updating. However with the Pre, I have Instant Messaging on AOL/Google on all of the time, GPS turned on and it seems about the same life as the Centro.

    I do hope we have graphics acceleration soon and that should speed some things up. It's a wait and see issue, hopefully Palm has the human resources to make this a great platform. Otherwise, Google's OS is nipping at Palm's heels. And I'm not going to say anything about the IPhone's leadership in the app market.
  18.    #18  
    Prejamison: This may indeed be true. It also may be true that the Pre only downloads headers, and takes some time to download the text. Either of these issues could be corrected by giving us (users) the correct options. It should be possible to set it to display plain-text and/or to automatically download the first X KB as my Centro did.

    But email is just one example. The overall experience, to me, feel a bit like when I loaded Vista on an older box: Everything works nicely, but sluggish. Another example: Scroll down on a website a bit too quickly and part of the screen goes blank for a second or so as it loads.

    I want to see this device work. I love the OS, I love the capabilities. My intention isn't to start another thread trashing the thing. My question simply is: What are the chances of these issues being dealt with on the current hardware? It may just be that I'll have to wait for version 2.0.

    Bobwonderful: Indeed, it was Chatteremail I got used to. Maybe I just got spoiled.
    Last edited by chabsin; 08/31/2009 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Update
  19. s219's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by chabsin View Post
    S219: Bottom line, do you see these issues being addressed on the current handset?
    I can't say if they will be (ideally Palm would have worked this out before releasing the device/OS) but they *can* be.

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