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  1.    #1  
    Instead of just struggling to release "volume" of "ok" APPS to the app store, Palm appears to be squandering an opportunity to release KILLER-APPS that take full advantage of the unique PRE/WEBOS capabilities that iphone CAN'T deliver. They could advertise these competitive advantages and laugh all the way to the BANK!!!!
  2.    #2  
    ..that's not to say they couldn't start doing this at any time...
  3. jdale's Avatar
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    #3  
    Someone has to write them. I'm sure Palm doesn't have a big collection of killer apps which they are hoarding for a rainy day. What they have that is ready to go out is probably out.

    On the other hand the app catalog is finally growing and I do figure that will gradually accelerate. Although so far the Homebrew collection on PreCentral is better, in my opinion, than the new apps in the official catalog.
  4. s219's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltcreep View Post
    Instead of just struggling to release "volume" of "ok" APPS to the app store, Palm appears to be squandering an opportunity to release KILLER-APPS that take full advantage of the unique PRE/WEBOS capabilities that iphone CAN'T deliver. They could advertise these competitive advantages and laugh all the way to the BANK!!!!
    Well, from the standpoint my development shop, those "unique PRE/WEBOS capabilities that iphone CAN'T deliver" are actually working in the iPhone's favor right now. You are right that the Pre/webOS combo has some features the iPhone just can't match:

    1) no graphics acceleration / OpenGL
    2) poor accelerometer performance
    3) sluggish touch behavior
    4) unprotected source code

    You're delusional if you think the webOS even has the potential to gain a competitive advantage over the iPhone with killer apps right now. If they want a competitive advantage, they need to give developers more capability. Right now, it's a joke.

    I am sorry if this comes off harsh. I want the Pre to succeed. Sadly, I think the average Pre cheerleader is totally ignorant about differences between iPhone's sophisticated SDK and Palm's very limited beta SDK. From my standpoint, where we were hoping for some good opportunities on this platform, it's a bust. I know some other developers who are just as frustrated as my team is.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    Well, from the standpoint my development shop, those "unique PRE/WEBOS capabilities that iphone CAN'T deliver" are actually working in the iPhone's favor right now. You are right that the Pre/webOS combo has some features the iPhone just can't match:

    1) no graphics acceleration / OpenGL
    2) poor accelerometer performance
    3) sluggish touch behavior
    4) unprotected source code

    You're delusional if you think the webOS even has the potential to gain a competitive advantage over the iPhone with killer apps right now. If they want a competitive advantage, they need to give developers more capability. Right now, it's a joke.

    I am sorry if this comes off harsh. I want the Pre to succeed. Sadly, I think the average Pre cheerleader is totally ignorant about differences between iPhone's sophisticated SDK and Palm's very limited beta SDK. From my standpoint, where we were hoping for some good opportunities on this platform, it's a bust. I know some other developers who are just as frustrated as my team is.


    I agree with you except for one thing. I think many here seem to think Palm has a year or two to screw around with WebOS and get things working properly. The old "well the iphone has been out for years" argument so don't compare the brand new WebOS.

    The issue is that Palm has some serious financial issues that are going to be exasperated by poor sales via Sprint and more competition on other carriers than people realize. I don't see Palm making it through 2010 but that isn't a very popular thing to say here.
  6.    #6  
    s219: Good input. You're right. I wasn't aware. That's the thing that needs to be honestly aired here. I'm a big fan of this device, but if Palm is listening out there, THIS is the kind of thing they need to hear/read. I posted my post because I'm disappointed that they've not taken advantage of the potential WebOS seems to represent. I'm glad you agree, and have provided another way in which they're falling short. Maybe they'll wake up.

    Aridon: Good point. I don't understand why Palm doesn't seem to be moving with a sense of urgency. The momentum achieved during launch, is all but gone. I'm afraid that you could be right, but I don't want you to be.
  7. s219's Avatar
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    #7  
    In the back of my head, I also have some fears about the platform, but I guess it's still more of a lingering concern. A lack of urgency sums it up well. If that's not the case, then Palm needs to give us more details on sales numbers, OS/SDK roadmap, etc. Right now, the silence is a bit disconcerting. What announcements have been made are really not moving us forward.

    What really bothers me is that, while we are waiting for Palm to shore up their 1.0 effort and mature it into a true 1.0 product, Apple is probably moving at breakneck speed towards 4.0. They are a moving target.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    In the back of my head, I also have some fears about the platform, but I guess it's still more of a lingering concern. A lack of urgency sums it up well. If that's not the case, then Palm needs to give us more details on sales numbers, OS/SDK roadmap, etc. Right now, the silence is a bit disconcerting. What announcements have been made are really not moving us forward.

    What really bothers me is that, while we are waiting for Palm to shore up their 1.0 effort and mature it into a true 1.0 product, Apple is probably moving at breakneck speed towards 4.0. They are a moving target.
    I disagree that Apple is moving at any breathtaking speed. 1.0 set the stage..boasting killer webbrowser, touch interface, and video ipod thrown in. Webapps were a joke. A year later (2.0) saw the app store. Full of bugs, it took much time to get stable. Crashed all the time, dropped calls all the time. 3.0 added some standard features and fleshed it out a bit more. But it wasn't a picnic the whole way.

    Multi-hour syncing..i avoided plugging it into itunes unless i really had to. Lag on the device..start typing, see it a few seconds later, etc.

    That said, Palm doesn't have that kind of time. Silence is concerning because usually the only reason to be silent isn't a good reason.

    To be honest, after CES, Palm had knocked it out of the park with some killer demos. At least they had me counting down, scouring the net for info, hanging out at precentral, etc. I think that high started coming down when they sent their much desired release date over a press release. Or maybe it was when they had promised a series of webinars and then didn't deliver except on ONE pretty lame one held jointly with Sprint.

    Then the itunes syncing announcement dropped which further soured me.

    No ads leading up to launch but given Palm's cash, not much of a problem. I did wonder about Sprint. They however said they were going to give it star treatment. Not much happened there. They showed the Pre a lot and marketed their network, but didn't show the Pre in any detail.

    Then we're treated to Palm's only real series of ads which were bizarre and horrific for what could be the product of the year. It made no sense. They weren't selling corn..no reason to be so creative as to lose people when they got something that sells itself.

    It all leads to disappointing sales. IMO, better marketing and better syncing with Sprint and the Pre would've been a true hit. 300-500k units sold since launch isn't good. It sucks. Especially for such a game changing device on a network that really had nothing else to compare with it. You don't get exclusives just for that..or maybe just sprint does (see tmobile with android, Verizon with Storm, AT&T and apple). Even so, i'm glad its only 6 months, because neither has any clue how to make a long term one work.

    Sprint still comes out looking like a dog here with a huge missed opportunity. If they couldn't capitalize on the Pre, then they should just get out of the hero phone business. Palm proved it needs multiple carriers.

    This isn't Pre bashing. This is bashing about poor execution by both Palm & Sprint. If anything, i'm saying they mismanaged a great product. But then again these are two companies that always have. Sprint is a great product but they are horrible at marketing and management...letting bad perceptions develop about CS, sticking with mail-in rebates, failing to take advantage of lower pricing, not able to get it out there they are more reliable than AT&T, questionable and slow move to wimax, failing to secure the Pre longterm (please remember..palm was on fumes and the other carriers weren't exactly knocking on their door), but despite that failing to milk it for all they could in the 6 short months, etc..

    It should have been a homerun. But so far its just another phone. And silence.
  9. #9  
    Since i griped, here's what they could have done IMO.

    Do a long term exclusive. You want a Pre, you go to Sprint.

    Sprint & Palm work out the financial stuff and get inventory pumping. Launch a major ad campaign. Get with major names and work out apps such as Facebook or Kindle and get them on the device at launch or soon after. Get with someone (amazon perhaps) and develop a media sync app with option to buy media as well as desktop syncing. Syncing with cloud is great, should be pushed, but provide the standard way as well for the average Joe.

    Update that app catalog slowly but surely. You can't let long periods of time go by.

    Offer tethering. You are Sprint and Palm..you need every advantage you can get. Slingbox? Gvoice? Skype? Get em on there.

    Offer one plan only (along with family)...89 a month unlimited everything. You need to stop losing customers Sprint.

    Get to 4G sooner than later. Come out with a 4G 16gb Pre by the holidays. Start the Pre2 talk in the Spring.

    Or something like that. Maybe i'm wrong here but I can imagine in another decade business schools will have textbooks with them as case studies.
  10. #10  
    I'm done visiting Precentral until the app store is out of beta. Every thread is about:

    Not enough apps
    App store
    Oreo
    Battery


    Blah....i wish people would search instead of just making new threads all the time.
  11. #11  
    There's always "how often do you polish your Pre" (and several more like it) to post in
  12.    #12  
    Do a long term exclusive. You want a Pre, you go to Sprint.

    Sprint & Palm work out the financial stuff and get inventory pumping. Launch a major ad campaign. Get with major names and work out apps such as Facebook or Kindle and get them on the device at launch or soon after. Get with someone (amazon perhaps) and develop a media sync app with option to buy media as well as desktop syncing. Syncing with cloud is great, should be pushed, but provide the standard way as well for the average Joe.

    Update that app catalog slowly but surely. You can't let long periods of time go by.

    Offer tethering. You are Sprint and Palm..you need every advantage you can get. Slingbox? Gvoice? Skype? Get em on there.

    Offer one plan only (along with family)...89 a month unlimited everything. You need to stop losing customers Sprint.

    Get to 4G sooner than later. Come out with a 4G 16gb Pre by the holidays. Start the Pre2 talk in the Spring.
    Doug, it yielded this set of pragmatic business sense by Cardfan. Now if someone influential from Sprint or Palm could only pick up on recommendations like his. *sigh*
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Since i griped, here's what they could have done IMO.

    Do a long term exclusive. You want a Pre, you go to Sprint.

    Sprint & Palm work out the financial stuff and get inventory pumping. Launch a major ad campaign. Get with major names and work out apps such as Facebook or Kindle and get them on the device at launch or soon after. Get with someone (amazon perhaps) and develop a media sync app with option to buy media as well as desktop syncing. Syncing with cloud is great, should be pushed, but provide the standard way as well for the average Joe.
    How does a long term Sprint exclusive help Palm. All it would do is ensure a lot of people wouldn't even consider buying a Pre.

    I am with you on alternatives to cloud syncing. It's really limited right now and doesn't even seem to work that well (probably better with Exchange).
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    You're delusional if you think the webOS even has the potential to gain a competitive advantage over the iPhone with killer apps right now. If they want a competitive advantage, they need to give developers more capability. Right now, it's a joke.

    I am sorry if this comes off harsh. I want the Pre to succeed. Sadly, I think the average Pre cheerleader is totally ignorant about differences between iPhone's sophisticated SDK and Palm's very limited beta SDK. From my standpoint, where we were hoping for some good opportunities on this platform, it's a bust. I know some other developers who are just as frustrated as my team is.
    True Palm's current SDK is little more than a nice emulator and some packaging and installation utilities. I don't think many people on this forum understand just how limited WebOS is as a platform. Scripting languages have their place but Javascript is not the right choice for a general purpose programming language.

    I am curious though, what competative advantage the OP thinks WebOS has.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    How does a long term Sprint exclusive help Palm. All it would do is ensure a lot of people wouldn't even consider buying a Pre.

    I am with you on alternatives to cloud syncing. It's really limited right now and doesn't even seem to work that well (probably better with Exchange).
    True. There's a good side to an exclusive and there's some bad. With palm running on fumes but with a wow product with potential to save the day though I think Sprint missed an opportunity is all as perhaps Palm did. A better exclusive i think gives Palm better short term returns as its do or die time.

    In contrast, apple seems to have outgrown needing one with AT&T but its hard messing with something that still works.

    Scenario one: Both Palm and Sprint have a half baked launch, mediocre campaign and palm sells about 300-500k since launch to largely already existing Sprint customers looking for something better. Then Palm goes to Verizon & AT&T with same phone while posting about the same # in sales for each. (even mentioning the rumored EOS gives me heartache so i'm avoiding it)

    Scenario two: Palm and Sprint do some of what i suggested in a post above and get 1.5 million sales since launch because Sprint is in it for the long haul, they partnered to get proper inventory, and launched it like a bat out of ***.

    I see it as one massive exclusive launch. Or as its going now..3 mini ones..each less exciting than the previous spaced a few months apart. Seems like it'd cost more to manufacture to 3 different US carrier's spec requirements as well.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Scenario two: Palm and Sprint do some of what i suggested in a post above and get 1.5 million sales since launch because Sprint is in it for the long haul, they partnered to get proper inventory, and launched it like a bat out of ***.
    Does Sprint have 1.5 milllion customers who want a Pre? What about all their other smartphones, should they stop selling them?

    What about all the people who won't consider anyone but Verizon? Or those who insist on a GSM device (or who are on a family plan with iPhone users). I beleive that one reason RIM dominate the US smartphone market is their willingness to provide phones for every carrier.

    Personally, I am not sure I would ever buy a single carrier smartphone.
  17. #17  
    I agree with you...if palm was RIM. Palm wasn't and isn't even close to RIM though. Palm was a company on fumes, trying to bring a new OS and one device to market and could've used a long term exclusive and more help from Sprint as a result. After reestablishing themselves, then perhaps go the RIM route..

    Does sprint have 1.5 million who want a Pre? I don't know. But i'm sure they have more than 300-500k who do. A well put together launch with sufficient inventory, doing some of what i suggested in apps & features, and a major well focused campaign would've increased sales for existing sprint customers and pulled in much more from other carriers because people would know its locked up at Sprint and it'd be useless to wait on it.

    Didn't Verizon and AT&T both announce a day or two before the Sprint/Palm launch that the Pre was coming in Jan? I'm sure that sucked some wind from the launch.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I agree with you...if palm was RIM. Palm wasn't and isn't even close to RIM though. Palm was a company on fumes, trying to bring a new OS and one device to market and could've used a long term exclusive and more help from Sprint as a result. After reestablishing themselves, then perhaps go the RIM route..

    Does sprint have 1.5 million who want a Pre? I don't know. But i'm sure they have more than 300-500k who do. A well put together launch with sufficient inventory, doing some of what i suggested in apps & features, and a major well focused campaign would've increased sales for existing sprint customers and pulled in much more from other carriers because people would know its locked up at Sprint and it'd be useless to wait on it.
    You are right, Palm is not RIM but they are not Apple either. I am not sure that anyone other than Apple can pull of a long term exclusive like the one they have with AT&T. Of course a company like RIM needs to support all carriers because theit primary customers are large corporations who wouldn't buy all those BES licenses if they couldn't pick their carrier. I think its significant that the only BB model thats carrier exclusive is the consumer focused Storm and even that supports GSM as well as CDMA.

    I don't think Palm and Sprint's interests are entirely aligned either. Sprint also sells WM devices and soon a new Android device. The just want to sell SE plans.
  19. Xyg
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    I agree with you except for one thing. I think many here seem to think Palm has a year or two to screw around with WebOS and get things working properly. The old "well the iphone has been out for years" argument so don't compare the brand new WebOS.

    The issue is that Palm has some serious financial issues that are going to be exasperated by poor sales via Sprint and more competition on other carriers than people realize. I don't see Palm making it through 2010 but that isn't a very popular thing to say here.
    And this is based on what? Are you somehow privy to the financials of Palm? How well do you really know if the company is in dire straits?

    I'm guessing that your answers are as follows: "Nothing", "no", and "I don't"
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    And this is based on what? Are you somehow privy to the financials of Palm? How well do you really know if the company is in dire straits?

    I'm guessing that your answers are as follows: "Nothing", "no", and "I don't"
    Palm is a Public traded company and is therefore required to report its financial status

    e.g. from

    Palm's Pressure Mounts: Tech Rumor of the Day | Technology | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com

    "Palm told analysts on an earnings call last month that it had "sufficient capital" to fund operations and growth. But the speculation around the company's need for more cash continues to grow.
    Palm has $255 million in cash and $394 million in debt. The company, while it did trim its losses, still burned through $72.4 million in cash in the most recent quarter. At that rate, Palm has less than a year's supply of money. "
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