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  1. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKTex View Post
    Just because a power cord looks like "it'll fit", doesn't mean it'll work. Electronic devices wouldn't come with their own power source if everyone already had generic power sources that work with anything that "looks" like it.
    Ummm, again....This is USB. It's not like I took a generic 19vdc adapter and plugged it into a 5vdc device. The only question is whether or not the adapter was bad or not. It is indeed meant for a 5v USB device.
    Here's the manual for the GPS unit that the adapter came with:
    www (put a . here) globalsat.com.tw/mana_php/support/file/BT-368_User_Manual%20_V1.0_Eng.pdf

    If I plugged the Pre into my laptop or a USB Hub and the same thing happened would you still say that it's my fault for plugging in a USB cable into a USB port just because it doesn't have a Palm label on it?
  2. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #22  
    I want to be clear since so many are responding that I "Used the wrong charger".

    I did NOT plug a different "charger" (ie. power adapter/cable) into the Pre.
    I plugged the Palm USB Cable that came with the Pre into a Automotive power USB adapter.

    It looks similar to this:
    http://nmpmobilephoneaccessories.co....ar-adaptor.jpg
    or this:
    http://www.data-mind.co.uk/acatalog/180_large.jpg
    Last edited by qkrthnu; 08/17/2009 at 03:11 PM. Reason: fixed links
  3. JKTex's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    I want to be clear since so many are responding that I "Used the wrong charger".

    I did NOT plug a different "charger" (ie. power adapter/cable) into the Pre.
    I plugged the Palm USB Cable that came with the Pre into a Automotive power USB adapter.

    It looks similar to this:
    htt(REMOVE THIS)p://nmpmobilephoneaccessories.co.uk/images/usb-car-adaptor.jpg
    or this:
    htt(REMOVE THIS)p://w(AND REMOVE THIS)ww.data-mind.co.uk/acatalog/180_large.jpg
    (Not being able to post links sucks. Frak'in spammers).
    Is that not a charger? Your cable is just a cable. Either way, you still connected your Pre to the wrong thing. You smoked it.
  4. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKTex View Post
    Electronic devices wouldn't come with their own power source if everyone already had generic power sources that work with anything that "looks" like it.
    Well, the Pre doesn't come with it's own "power source". It comes with a USB cable and a 120vac-to-USB adapter.

    By your logic plugging the Pre into a laptop to charge would be a mistake.
  5. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKTex View Post
    Is that not a charger? Your cable is just a cable. Either way, you still connected your Pre to the wrong thing. You smoked it.
    Technically no. The charge circutry is built into the Pre.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    I have a USB car adapter from a GPS unit that I figured I'd try...

    ...I did NOT plug a different "charger" (ie. power adapter/cable) into the Pre.
    These two statements don't jive. First you say you used a power adapter meant for a device other than the Pre, specifically a GPS unit, and then you say it's somehow not different from the charger meant for the Pre. Unless there's more to the story than you've shared so far, that GPS of yours was not running off a Pre charger, correct? Assuming that's the case, then you DID plug your Pre into a different charger than the one meant for it. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

    As I stated earlier, most GPS units use a different pin configuration for charging from what most other devices use, including the Pre. In all likelihood, the adapter you used was VERY different from that of the Pre. The end result was you either sent voltage to portions of you Pre's circuitry that couldn't handle it, or you simply shorted out your Pre's own power circuitry. Or possibly, you did both.

    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    I plugged the Palm USB Cable that came with the Pre into a Automotive power USB adapter.
    As others have already stated, the cable is just a cable, a conduit, nothing more. Whatever pin configuration is in the charger will simply be carried forward from the charger to the device, via the cable. A short is a short, a wrong voltage is wrong voltage. It doesn't matter which end of the cable it happens on.



    Sorry, I know none of this is what you'd wanted to hear. I'm sure it's not easy to come to terms with the gravity of your mistake. I hope you've got insurance on your phone.

    That said, it's certainly possible, however unlikely, that the configuration was indeed standard, and that nothing I've said so far actually is applicable. If you're reasonably sure your charger should have been compatible with the Pre, try to obtain a circuit diagram from the manufacturer, or else take it to a qualified electronics technician who can analyze it and diagram it for you. Then compare notes with the USB standard for battery charging in wireless devices. If they match, then it's only coincidence that your defective Pre happened to blow up while connected to the charger. But if they don't match, which I'm 99% certain they won't, then you know for a fact it was your own fault.

    If it turns out the charger does meet the required standard, I'd suggest having it tested to make sure it's functioning properly. If the charger itself failed, it could well have taken out whatever device was attached to it. In that case, the charger manufacturer might be liable. But again, this only applies if the charger does indeed meet the same standard the Pre requires. If it's not a match, you're SOL.
    Last edited by ABBlockhead; 08/17/2009 at 02:14 PM.
  7. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by ABBlockhead View Post
    These two statements don't jive. First you say you used a power adapter meant for a device other than the Pre, specifically a GPS unit, and then you say it's somehow not different from the charger meant for the Pre. Unless there's more to the story than you've shared so far, that GPS of yours was not running off a Pre charger, correct? Assuming that's the case, then you DID plug your Pre into a different charger than the one meant for it. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

    As I stated earlier, most GPS units use a different pin configuration for charging from what most other devices use, including the Pre. In all likelihood, the adapter you used was VERY different from that of the Pre. The end result was you either sent voltage to portions of you Pre's circuitry that couldn't handle it, or you simply shorted out your Pre's own power circuitry. Or possibly, you did both.

    As others have already stated, the cable is just a cable. Whatever pin configuration was in the charger will simply be carried forward from the cable to the Pre. A short is a short, a wrong voltage is wrong voltage. It doesn't matter which end of the cable it happens on.

    Sorry, I know none of this is what you'd wanted to hear. I'm sure it's not easy to come to terms with the gravity of your mistake. I hope you've got insurance on your phone.

    That said, it's certainly possible, however unlikely, that the configuration was indeed standard, and that nothing I've said so far actually is applicable. If you're reasonably sure your charger should have been compatible with the Pre, try to obtain a circuit diagram from the manufacturer, or else take it to a qualified electronics technician who can analyze it and diagram it for you. Then compare notes with the USB standard for battery charging in wireless devices. If they match, then it's only coincidence that your defective Pre happened to blow up while connected to the charger. But if they don't match, which I'm 99% certain they won't, then you know for a fact it was your own fault.
    Ok. Let me try to be more specific.

    I have a Bluetooth/USB GPS reciever that uses USB to recharge it's internal battery. That GPS came with a USB cable (It can charge via any USB port just like the Pre) and also a 120vac-to-USB and a 12vdc-to-USB adapter.

    I used the 12vdc-to-USB adapter that came with my Bluetooth/USB GPS receiver in my car.

    I plugged the Pre, using the Palm USB cable, the same one you would use to plug into either the Palm 120vac-to-USB adapter or any other USB port (laptop, USB Hub, USB port on a printer etc) into the USB port on that 12vdc-to-USB adapter.

    I don't know about you, but USB devices aren't supposed to be "very different". I wouldn't expect a GPS that plugs into my laptop and not only charges but also transmits data over USB to have a "very different" 12vdc-to-USB adapter. (with the exception of lower power requirements, which would mean the Pre wouldn't be able to draw full power). That just doesn't make sense. There are only 4 pins on the host side of the cable, so there isn't any posibility for deviation; at least not considering it still functions as a normal USB device. It's not like this came with a coffee mug heater or something like that, it was a fully Windows/Mac compliant USB device.

    Again, I'm going to verifty when I get home that there's isn't anything wrong/funny with that 12v-to-USB adapter, but really as long as it's showing 5v between pins 1 & 4, that is all that is needed for a USB device to obtain "charge only" functionality. I'll check for continuity & resistance on the data pins just for ****'n'giggles, but it should be irrelevant.
  8. #28  
    I'm aware of the differences in the plug types, and their shapes. If you read my post I said I couldn't remember which was which. It wasn't a matter of receiving enough power, it had to do with the type of min-USB cable that was being used. With a standard USB cable/car adaptor, it goes into the USB storage mode, with the Garmin car adaptor, it powers on the unit.

    Here is a link to the Garmin Oregon Wiki page.

    Garmin Oregon Wiki - Power

    Item #9 addresses the differences between using a 3rd party charger, and the Garmin car adaptor. A little technical, and would only apply if you have and were using the Garmin adaptor.


    Just trying to help, that's all.




    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    Well, The Type A & Type B just refer to the different form factors. They're literaly different shaped plugs. You can't plug the wrong one in, it's like putting a square peg in a round hole.

    See: (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Connector_types)

    Also, I was expecting results like you described with your GPS. You GPS just didn't function when it wasn't receiving enough power, it didn't go up in flames.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    Again, I'm going to verifty when I get home that there's isn't anything wrong/funny with that 12v-to-USB adapter, but really as long as it's showing 5v between pins 1 & 4, that is all that is needed for a USB device to obtain "charge only" functionality. I'll check for continuity & resistance on the data pins just for ****'n'giggles, but it should be irrelevant.
    If you see 12V on the output of the USB adapter, don't assume that's by design (i.e. don't use it for your GPS any more until you get more info). It's more likely that the 5V regulator fried, or is otherwise defective, and is just passing the 12V straight through.

    Regards,
    Tom
  10. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #30  
    I've downloaded the USB battery charging specification. Basically it's up to the device to figure out what it's plugged into. A "dedicated charging device" (which is what a 12vdc-to-USB adapter is considered) is supposed to short the two Data pins so that the USB Device knows that it is plugged into a "dedicated charging device". After that it is upto the USB device to limit the ammount of current that it tries to draw from the "dedicated charging device".
  11. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomJ View Post
    If you see 12V on the output of the USB adapter, don't assume that's by design (i.e. don't use it for your GPS any more until you get more info). It's more likely that the 5V regulator fried, or is otherwise defective, and is just passing the 12V straight through.

    Regards,
    Tom
    Exactly. Like I said above, the GPS is a standard USB device, so it also runs off of 5v. So If I see more than 5.25v (which is the upper limited according to USB spec), then I know the adapter is bad.

    If it's 5V, and nothing else looks weird (power on the data pins etc), then it looks like the Pre just fried.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    If it's 5V, and nothing else looks weird (power on the data pins etc), then it looks like the Pre just fried.
    Yep. Good luck!

    Regards,
    Tom
    Hey, at least you got your 10 posts out of the deal!
  13. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    I'm aware of the differences in the plug types, and their shapes. If you read my post I said I couldn't remember which was which. It wasn't a matter of receiving enough power, it had to do with the type of min-USB cable that was being used. With a standard USB cable/car adaptor, it goes into the USB storage mode, with the Garmin car adaptor, it powers on the unit.

    Here is a link to the Garmin Oregon Wiki page.

    Garmin Oregon Wiki - Power

    Item #9 addresses the differences between using a 3rd party charger, and the Garmin car adaptor. A little technical, and would only apply if you have and were using the Garmin adaptor.


    Just trying to help, that's all.
    I know, sorry if my response was brash. Thank you for your input.

    In regards to the link you just posted. It sounds like they are talking about adapter/cable combo "chargers", where you have a 12vdc or 120vac adapter permantly attached (ie. NO 4 pin end that can be plugged into a USB port) to a USB cable with a mini-USB connection for the Garmin on the other end. That mini-USB end is the only end that has 5 pins.

    I'm using the Palm cable, so the 5 pin mini-USB end is the same. Any pin 4 configuration on the 5 pin mini-USB side of the cable doesn't change based on what you plug the 4 pin end of the cable into.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomJ View Post
    If you see 12V on the output of the USB adapter, don't assume that's by design (i.e. don't use it for your GPS any more until you get more info). It's more likely that the 5V regulator fried, or is otherwise defective, and is just passing the 12V straight through.

    Regards,
    Tom

    Good point. I know someone that happened to. It was one of those cheap monoprice deals.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    I know, sorry if my response was brash. Thank you for your input.

    In regards to the link you just posted. It sounds like they are talking about adapter/cable combo "chargers", where you have a 12vdc or 120vac adapter permantly attached (ie. NO 4 pin end that can be plugged into a USB port) to a USB cable with a mini-USB connection for the Garmin on the other end. That mini-USB end is the only end that has 5 pins.

    I'm using the Palm cable, so the 5 pin mini-USB end is the same. Any pin 4 configuration on the 5 pin mini-USB side of the cable doesn't change based on what you plug the 4 pin end of the cable into.
    My experiences were the opposite of yours, which is how I learned this. When I got my GPS, I plugged it into the car adaptor that I was using for my Blackberry. All it would do is power on in the USB storage mode. I wound up purchasing a Garmin-specific adaptor for power the GPS. (Garmin sells it for $28 but found a dealer on Amazon for $14 - same exact one.) I didn't think about it doing any damage to my phone but it hasn't. Otherwise I would be in the same boat as you. I only offer this as another explanation as to what happened. When you mentioned using a GPS cable, that was the first thing that popped into mind. It's possible that your adaptor developed a problem and damaged the phone. Have you tried reconnecting your GPS to it again, and see if it works as usual? Since you're only powering a BT receiver, I can't imagine it being an adaptor problem, and most likely is a defective Pre. There is a link on the Oregon Wiki page that shows the pin-outs for the miniUSB connector and the results that someone got when he changed the resistors on pin 4.
    Last edited by ivhs72; 08/17/2009 at 03:21 PM.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  16. #36  
    I think your pre was defective (unless your usb car adapter was putting out wrong voltage , take out that trusty Fluke!)...

    I've hook up my pre to more than 10 (I kid you not!) different USB car adapters including 2 different garmin units (used mini to micro usb adapter). Everything from cheapo no name stuff to Palm's own car adapter.

    None of them had any problem what so ever.

    I say take it back and get a new one
    iPhone; the official phone of 'the Borg'
  17. #37  
    Well this is good to know. I always assumed if it was USB plug it conformed to the usb standards (if it displays the usb logo), and with a standard means you can use it with anything that supports it. But if the GPS nav units don't comply with it that sucks, and guess would be expected.
  18. qkrthnu's Avatar
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       #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    My experiences were the opposite of yours, which is how I learned this. When I got my GPS, I plugged it into the car adaptor that I was using for my Blackberry. All it would do is power on in the USB storage mode. I wound up purchasing a Garmin-specific adaptor for power the GPS. (Garmin sells it for $28 but found a dealer on Amazon for $14 - same exact one.) I didn't think about it doing any damage to my phone but it hasn't. Otherwise I would be in the same boat as you. I only offer this as another explanation as to what happened. When you mentioned using a GPS cable, that was the first thing that popped into mind. It's possible that your adaptor developed a problem and damaged the phone. Have you tried reconnecting your GPS to it again, and see if it works as usual? Since you're only powering a BT receiver, I can't imagine it being an adaptor problem, and most likely is a defective Pre. There is a link on the Oregon Wiki page that shows the pin-outs for the miniUSB connector and the results that someone got when he changed the resistors on pin 4.
    Right, when you tried using your Blackberry cable the mini-USB end that plugs into your Garmin wasn't configured as a "power only" cable, which is what the Garmin requires to charge. So no, that wouldn't have done any damage to your Garmin, it just woulnd't charge because it was trying to make a data connection, but there was nothing on the other end.

    I won't be trying to connect anything to that adapter until after I test it. because if it is blown, then it would most likely kill whatever else I were to plug into it.

    I'm guessing that since the Pre demands so much current, then if the adapter wasn't fused it could have fried the voltage regulator in the adapter (Like TomJ said), after which it would have sent 12v to the Pre, which then cooked it. Although if that is the case, then I'd be suprised that the Pre wouldn't have been able to detect an over-voltage situation and shut down the USB power input. In any case, I'll know more in a couple of hours.
  19. #39  
    One of the drawbacks to the Gramin Colorado/Oregon series is that they cannot be recharged from an external source. You have to remove the AA batteries and charge them seperately. That is why I got the car adaptor, was to not have to rely on the batteries so much.



    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    Right, when you tried using your Blackberry cable the mini-USB end that plugs into your Garmin wasn't configured as a "power only" cable, which is what the Garmin requires to charge. So no, that wouldn't have done any damage to your Garmin, it just woulnd't charge because it was trying to make a data connection, but there was nothing on the other end.

    I won't be trying to connect anything to that adapter until after I test it. because if it is blown, then it would most likely kill whatever else I were to plug into it.

    I'm guessing that since the Pre demands so much current, then if the adapter wasn't fused it could have fried the voltage regulator in the adapter (Like TomJ said), after which it would have sent 12v to the Pre, which then cooked it. Although if that is the case, then I'd be suprised that the Pre wouldn't have been able to detect an over-voltage situation and shut down the USB power input. In any case, I'll know more in a couple of hours.
    Phones: Sprint Blackberry Bold 9650, Sprint Blackberry Tour 9630, Nextel Blackberry 8350i Curve (Everything Plus Family Data 1600)



    "When I die bury me deep, put two speakers at my feet, a pair of ear phones on my head, and always play The Grateful Dead."
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by qkrthnu View Post
    I want to be clear since so many are responding that I "Used the wrong charger".

    I did NOT plug a different "charger" (ie. power adapter/cable) into the Pre.
    I plugged the Palm USB Cable that came with the Pre into a Automotive power USB adapter.

    It looks similar to this:
    http://nmpmobilephoneaccessories.co....ar-adaptor.jpg
    or this:
    http://www.data-mind.co.uk/acatalog/180_large.jpg
    That's the actual charger.
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