Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 59 of 59
  1.    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by geewhiz View Post
    I'm unable to install the ChapuraSyncManager on Vista 32 on my laptop. Seems to be trying to install a common sync program that supports both Outlook and Palm Desktop. Errors out because it can not find Microsoft.Office.Interop.Outlook which should not be even needed for Palm Desktop synchronization. WTH are these guys doing?
    The old conduits won't work with the Pre. It's a totally different device, so they had to devise a totally different method.
    This might give you some insight on what it does. Outlook Object Model Overview

    Can't say for sure what the problem is, I gave up on Vista after about 3 months, but I suspect it has to do with the mode in which you're installing. First, make sure you meet Chapura's system requirements -> http://www.chapura.com/echo_details_sysreq.php

    Then make sure you're installing as a user that has administrative rights to the machine.

    Hope that helps.
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Hint: Not everyone is on their phone all day

    Hint: Not everyone checks their email only on their phone

    Hint: Not everyone has access to webmail at their workstation

    Hint: Not everyone wants to use gmail to access their PIM

    Hint: A lot people use outlook for PIM

    Hint: A lot of people would like local non-cloud repository for their PIM as backup

    Why is this so hard to understand? Why are so many people defending Palm for taking features away that existed in the PREVIOUS devices? Why does synergy have to be an either or situation? Why not sync with the cloud and outlook both? Seriously, it's like Palm releases a product > Palm removes basic feature present in all previous devices which is industry standard > makes you have pay extra for this basic feature by forcing you to buy 3rd party apps > Palm says tough its their new synergy model > Palm users bend over and take it > indignant Palm users criticize others for not wanting to bend over with them and take as well...sheesh...
    You know guy, just because you want those features, doesn't mean the rest of us are "bending over and taking it". I can't understand why folks on this forum have to resort to personal insults just because someone disagrees with them.

    Palm did not "take an existing feature" away from the Pre. This is a brand new operating system. Those features would have to be added to it. They were never there to begin with, so they weren't taken away.

    Palm would have to either buy such products from someone else (if they existed, which they probably don't yet), or spend precious resources developing them when they are moving away from that model.

    For those that still like that model, Palm has a device. The Treo Pro.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I keep seeing this type of stuff, but it's simply not true.

    • Outlook is most likely not the "defacto standard for most people in the world" (and I'll ignore the redundancy). The most recent survey I found from Fingerprint, 36% of business users use Outlook. That's a plurality, but not "most" (IE > 50%). However, even that statistic is misleading, because it includes Outlook 2003 and earlier (29%) and Outlook 2007 (7%). The two clients operate differently, and would need different sync engines to work.
      The number for consumers is 27%, with Outlook 2003 and earlier at 14% and 2007 at 13%
      The largest single "client" for business users is Hotmail (33%) (btw, for what it's worth, I found that one pretty amazing as well.) For consumers, Yahoo, beats all versions of Outlook at 29%. Hotmail is close on its tail at 25%, but still beats out either version of Outlook.
    • I will defer to your statistic regarding market share. Ok fine Outlook does not have a majority market share, but it still has the largest plurality which is pretty big. It seems to me, especially if Palm wants to focus the Pre for enterprise customers who use Outlook, desktop sync should be a important feature.

    • The original Palm Desktop software did not sync with Outlook. You had to purchased the add-on Pocket Mirror, until Palm licensed the product from Chapura. I believe that began with the Palm III. Who knows, maybe if it's popular enough with the Pre, Palm will license Echo as well. However, the notion that it "all previous Palm products have always had support" for it is simply incorrect.
    The Palm III was a loooooooong time ago. How about this....for the past 10 YEARS or so Palm has supported Outlook sync? For several generations of PalmOS Treos, TX, Tungstens and Zires user had the option of either syncing their PIM with either Palm Desktop or outlook on their initial setup. It is true you could not sync both palm desktop and outlook simutaneously and you had to purchase 3rd party sync for that.

    I agree with all of this, except that it would be "difficult". I believe it's all coming. The other current offerings were all based on pretty standardized client/server email mechanisms; while Hotmail and Yahoo are both more custom. However, I believe (and hope) we'll see them.
    I wouldn't be totally surprised to see Palm try to get them to develop their own, and possibly they'll even be third party add-ons (probably depends on consumer demand). Palm may have decided to "test the waters" with a few out of the box, and depend on third party for the rest. Or, maybe they'll look for third party developers and license their offerings. As I said, the original (and now very much outmoded) syncronization that Palm licensed from Chapura took a few cycles to show up for free.
    I hope you are correct that Palm will test the waters so to speak. Using the market share metrics you posted above, it would only make sense for Palm to support synergy with Hotmail and Yahoo.

    Another point many others are failing to see as meyerweb posted earlier:
    • many users want to have local backup of their data that is NOT in the cloud
    • there are instances where users do NOT want to sync certain data to the cloud


    IMO synergy should mean, sync your data as much as you want or as little you want to anywhere or nowhere in the cloud or you desktop anytime you want. I hope that's where palm is focusing....
    Last edited by Gaurav; 08/18/2009 at 01:59 AM.
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You know guy, just because you want those features, doesn't mean the rest of us are "bending over and taking it". I can't understand why folks on this forum have to resort to personal insults just because someone disagrees with them.
    Aren't you the one criticizing others for complaining about a missing feature? IT's a forum buddy...don't be so sensitive...

    Palm did not "take an existing feature" away from the Pre. This is a brand new operating system. Those features would have to be added to it. They were never there to begin with, so they weren't taken away.

    Palm would have to either buy such products from someone else (if they existed, which they probably don't yet), or spend precious resources developing them when they are moving away from that model.

    For those that still like that model, Palm has a device. The Treo Pro.

    Excuse me, but the average user doesn't give a hoot about new platforms or linux or mojo etc. All the user knows is that when he buys a phone that he needs to sync with his computer...phone X will sync, Treo will sync and Pre will not. It's weak arguement to make technical excuses for features that should have been strategic business decision to support. I realize Palm has limited resources, but Outlook sync should not have been a casualty.

    As far as the Treo Pro...nice device...I came from the 800w but WM has its own issues. Furthermore if rumors about Palm decision to phase out WM support are true, then emphasis for enterprise support with outlook make even more sense...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  5.    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Aren't you the one criticizing others for complaining about a missing feature? IT's a forum buddy...don't be so sensitive...
    Surely you see the difference between criticizing, and saying someone "bends over to take it"

    ...or maybe you don't...

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Excuse me, but the average user doesn't give a hoot about new platforms or linux or mojo etc. All the user knows is that when he buys a phone that he needs to sync with his computer...phone X will sync, Treo will sync and Pre will not. It's weak arguement to make technical excuses for features that should have been strategic business decision to support. I realize Palm has limited resources, but Outlook sync should not have been a casualty.
    Nope, the average user doesn't give a hoot about new platforms or linux or mojo. They care about the device doing what it says it will. From the recent poll I heard about, it seems like about 85% of Pre users are "satisfied" to "very satisfied" with the Pre. Supposedly the highest rating ever for a new Palm device.

    Saying "Outlook sync should not have been a casualty" doesn't really explain way. If Palm is going after the "big piece" of the pie, it would seem that should either be Hotmail (for business users) or Yahoo (for consumers).

    And, as has been pointed out in a previous post, why go to Outlook to get mail that it got from the server, when the Pre can just go directly to the server?

    Again, I'm not saying there's not a use for what you're talking about, I'm just saying it's not what most people want anymore.
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    I will defer to your statistic regarding market share. Ok fine Outlook does not have a majority market share, but it still has the largest plurality which is pretty big. It seems to me, especially if Palm wants to focus the Pre for enterprise customers who use Outlook, desktop sync should be a important feature.
    Not my statistics, Fingerprint's. And the "plurality" doesn't matter. Outlook 2003 and earlier is not the same as Outlook 2007. They are completely different clients, and would require completely different synchronization methods. That's the point. If Palm were to go after the "800 lb gorilla", it would be Hotmail.

    But no matter which route they chose, the point is they still have to build from scratch. There's no "old technology" on which to base it. Not only that, the "old technology" that existed, Palm did not create. They bought it. There's nothing yet for them to buy.




    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    The Palm III was a loooooooong time ago. How about this....for the past 10 YEARS or so Palm has supported Outlook sync? For several generations of PalmOS Treos, TX, Tungstens and Zires user had the option of either syncing their PIM with either Palm Desktop or outlook on their initial setup. It is true you could not sync both palm desktop and outlook simutaneously and you had to purchase 3rd party sync for that.
    Not to belabor the point, but "a loooooooong time ago" != "all previous Palm products have always had support".

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Another point many others are failing to see as meyerweb posted earlier:
    • many users want to have local backup of their data that is NOT in the cloud
    • there are instances where users do NOT want to sync certain data to the cloud


    IMO synergy should mean, sync your data as much as you want or as little you want to anywhere or nowhere in the cloud or you desktop anytime you want. I hope that's where palm is focusing....
    This I agree with. I too hope that's the direction that Palm takes.

    However, I think the expectation that Palm is going to release a device that immediately duplicates all of the features of their previous OS that took years to mature is unrealistic. Nothing against those that choose to wait for the features to come, but please, dispense with the belittling of those of us that understand what's going on, and are satisified with what we've got (so far).
  7. Quintus's Avatar
    Posts
    624 Posts
    Global Posts
    672 Global Posts
    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    However, I think the expectation that Palm is going to release a device that immediately duplicates all of the features of their previous OS that took years to mature is unrealistic. Nothing against those that choose to wait for the features to come, but please, dispense with the belittling of those of us that understand what's going on, and are satisified with what we've got (so far).
    That is a good point. But in today's consumer and high tech society, whenever you buy something new, you come to expect additional features not less. Cannot really blame the consumer for his/her expectations when buying a new gadget.

    A good analogy might be the Blu-Ray Disc. We were all used to using DVDs which remembered exactly where you were when you had to pause a movie and come back to it later. The early Blu-Ray machines, i.e. the PS3, did not have this capability until some time later when firmware updates were made. There are still many DVD capabilities that are still not active in BD technology that most would have thought were quite basic.

    Hparsons point is a good one.
  8. fredc1's Avatar
    Posts
    150 Posts
    Global Posts
    155 Global Posts
    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    I will defer to your statistic regarding market share. Ok fine Outlook does not have a majority market share, but it still has the largest plurality which is pretty big. It seems to me, especially if Palm wants to focus the Pre for enterprise customers who use Outlook, desktop sync should be a important feature....
    I would think that most big enterprise have Outlook on exchange servers, not on desktops. The Pre syncs with the exchange servers quite nicely.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    I would think that most big enterprise have Outlook on exchange servers, not on desktops. The Pre syncs with the exchange servers quite nicely.
    Except for tasks and notes, which don't sync at all. Again, less functionality than my "antique" P-OS device. And there are certain firms which, for security reasons, would prefer not to use EAS.

    No matter how you slice it, and no matter what excuses you make, the simple fact is that the Palm OS let you sync using EAS or desktop sync, the Pre doesn't. And public sites like google just aren't viable for people who have sensitive business data. My company would have a fit if my appointments, including invitees and locations, were stored on google's servers.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Not my statistics, Fingerprint's. And the "plurality" doesn't matter. Outlook 2003 and earlier is not the same as Outlook 2007. They are completely different clients, and would require completely different synchronization methods. That's the point. If Palm were to go after the "800 lb gorilla", it would be Hotmail.

    But no matter which route they chose, the point is they still have to build from scratch. There's no "old technology" on which to base it. Not only that, the "old technology" that existed, Palm did not create. They bought it. There's nothing yet for them to buy.

    However, I think the expectation that Palm is going to release a device that immediately duplicates all of the features of their previous OS that took years to mature is unrealistic. Nothing against those that choose to wait for the features to come, but please, dispense with the belittling of those of us that understand what's going on, and are satisified with what we've got (so far).
    Wrong, on most counts. Hotmail is the 800 lb gorrilla in the consumer space, maybe, but not in the business market. And I'll bet half of hotmail's accounts, at any given time, are dead accounts. I probably have 3 or 4 accounts there that I set up for spam purposes and never access.

    Wrong about old technology. Palm created hotsync and Palm desktop. They then sold it, and re-aquired the rights to it. They did license the technology for outlook syncing, which they could easily do for the Pre, if they wanted to. The same technology that's in the Treo could be ported to the Pre. WebOS isn't the only way to program for the Pre, you now. It's just the only way Palm is letting outside developers program for the Pre.

    I don't know if 2003 and 2007 require totally different clients for syncing. I know my Treo syncs to both with no problem at all. Via both EAS and desktop sync, my choice.

    As far as your last point, it didn't take years for Palm to provide desktop sync in the Palm line. It was there in the very first Palm, some 20 years ago. This isn't rocket science or really complex code. Providing a way to fully backup and restore your data is computer science 101, and Palm failed.

    I find that, for the most part, those who have used serious smart phones in the past (e.g., Treos) understand what's missing. Those new to the Smartphone arena (or come from Apple--pretty much the same thing) love the Pre, but don't understand what's been lost in translation.

    I will grant that Palm probably had little choice but to release the Pre half-finished. Creating a new OS and apps from scratch is a huge endeavor, and takes time. (Palm should know, as they've failed at it twice already.) WebOS isn't done yet, but if Palm had waited until it was they would have been bankrupt. But that doesn't change the basic fact that the Pre is lacking a ton of features that are common place on every other phone in the category.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  11. #51  
    I've come to the conclusion that the things the old Palm did well (great calendar, contacts, backup, ability to restore with a click, desktop integration, battery life) the new Palm does poorly. And the things the old Palm did poorly (inability to multitask, poor bluetooth profiles, infrequent updates, no wifi, etc.) are now done well.
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Except for tasks and notes, which don't sync at all. Again, less functionality than my "antique" P-OS device. And there are certain firms which, for security reasons, would prefer not to use EAS.

    No matter how you slice it, and no matter what excuses you make, the simple fact is that the Palm OS let you sync using EAS or desktop sync, the Pre doesn't. And public sites like google just aren't viable for people who have sensitive business data. My company would have a fit if my appointments, including invitees and locations, were stored on google's servers.
    And here's the irony - Those same IT folks that don't want EAS because of security reasons, also (typically) don't want users syncing that same data to their PDAs that cannot be properly protected.
  13.    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Wrong, on most counts. Hotmail is the 800 lb gorrilla in the consumer space, maybe, but not in the business market. And I'll bet half of hotmail's accounts, at any given time, are dead accounts. I probably have 3 or 4 accounts there that I set up for spam purposes and never access.
    Sorry, you can spin it any way you want. These were not MY stats, they were Fingerprint's, who gets them directly from net traffic. If you have other sources, please feel free to provide them. Otherwise, you are relating your personal experience and beliefs, not stats.


    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Wrong about old technology. Palm created hotsync and Palm desktop. They then sold it, and re-aquired the rights to it. They did license the technology for outlook syncing, which they could easily do for the Pre, if they wanted to.
    So how was I "wrong"? This is exactly what I said, that it did not sync to Outlook, and that they purchased the system from Chapura.

    You may believe that Palm can "easily do for the Pre, if they wanted to", but I suspect there's probably a shortage of availablity of the software.

    As I said before, Chapura had Pocket Mirror out, for a fee, long before licensing it. The Pilot III was the first device that Palm licensed the product.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    The same technology that's in the Treo could be ported to the Pre. WebOS isn't the only way to program for the Pre, you now. It's just the only way Palm is letting outside developers program for the Pre.
    Nope, the Pre is a different OS. There's no "porting" involved. It would be a totally different program, written especially for the Pre.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    I don't know if 2003 and 2007 require totally different clients for syncing. I know my Treo syncs to both with no problem at all. Via both EAS and desktop sync, my choice.
    Because Palm included conduits for both.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    As far as your last point, it didn't take years for Palm to provide desktop sync in the Palm line. It was there in the very first Palm, some 20 years ago. This isn't rocket science or really complex code. Providing a way to fully backup and restore your data is computer science 101, and Palm failed.
    Again, you are pulling what I said completely out of context. Yes, the first Pilot came with desktop syncing. It did not come with Outlook syncing, which was what we were discussing.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    I find that, for the most part, those who have used serious smart phones in the past (e.g., Treos) understand what's missing. Those new to the Smartphone arena (or come from Apple--pretty much the same thing) love the Pre, but don't understand what's been lost in translation.
    I couldn't disagree more, but it's just opinion. I beieve that those who used Treo's in the past and have moved on to the Pre understand not only what they've lost, but what has changed, how the market has changed, and how there is a new paradigm, and have embraced it.

    FWIW, device "track" with Palm Devices and OSs (beginning in 1998) is this:
    Palm III -> Palm IIIx -> TRG Pro -> Handera 330 -> Sony Clie NX -> Treo 270 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755p -> Centro
    -> Treo 755p -> Pre

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    I will grant that Palm probably had little choice but to release the Pre half-finished. Creating a new OS and apps from scratch is a huge endeavor, and takes time. (Palm should know, as they've failed at it twice already.) WebOS isn't done yet, but if Palm had waited until it was they would have been bankrupt. But that doesn't change the basic fact that the Pre is lacking a ton of features that are common place on every other phone in the category.
    I'll disagree that Palm OS is "half finished", but will agree that it's lacking in features that are common-place on older, outdated devices. Some of those features, Palm needs to add (in my opinion). Some of them are totally outdated, and should be provided to the few owners that need them by third party providers (again, in my opinion).
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The old conduits won't work with the Pre. It's a totally different device, so they had to devise a totally different method.
    This might give you some insight on what it does. Outlook Object Model Overview

    Can't say for sure what the problem is, I gave up on Vista after about 3 months, but I suspect it has to do with the mode in which you're installing. First, make sure you meet Chapura's system requirements -> Palm Pre Palm Desktop Sync Solution - Echo by Chapura

    Then make sure you're installing as a user that has administrative rights to the machine.

    Hope that helps.
    I'm an experienced Vista user/administrator (painful that may be ...) so it's not that. I'm working with Chapura support and it appears that my problem is that I have Outlook and Palm Desktop installed on my laptop. I use Outlook only for business e-mail and Palm Desktop has all of my legacy data in it (for when the Pre screws it up or loses it - several times already!).

    Chapura support confirmed that they built this on top of the Pocket Mirror stuff (apparently a .net application) and a Outlook library has to be installed to supposedly make the Outlook integration work. Which is strange since the Outlook integration is supposedly not there yet?

    They have a ways to go and I haven't even checked the Pre client yet ...
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by ka1 View Post
    I've come to the conclusion that the things the old Palm did well (great calendar, contacts, backup, ability to restore with a click, desktop integration, battery life) the new Palm does poorly. And the things the old Palm did poorly (inability to multitask, poor bluetooth profiles, infrequent updates, no wifi, etc.) are now done well.
    Well said, I think you nailed it!
  16. #56  
    The reason that Palm released the Palm in the state it was (other than revenue was needed, of course ...) shows up in the satisfaction survey as previously mentioned. Most general users don't care about a lot of functionality. This was also indicated by another survey a while back that showed most smartphone users only downloaded one app on average. The iPhone people surely do more especially if they are fee.

    The sad truths are ...

    Palm pretty much abandoned Treo users and the built-in Palm OS apps. Probably because the Apple people didn't have any history with it and the ones who did were long gone. They did not have any other choice!

    Palm will have Outlook sync as well as a desktop sync eventually. This is a loss of functionality for Treo users migrating to the Pre. But again, they had no choice. Also, I suspect they don't want to do it and instead want to focus on webOS and other devices. They seem to be following the same path as Apple did in this area.

    I think abandoning the Treo users has and will hurt them down the road. But, again they had no choice. They could not delay the launch any more ... 3GS and other devices coming down the road from other vendors. And again, they believe this will also be resolved through the third party developers.

    Is this Pre "immature"? Of course! But from a business standpoint, if you can get 85%+ satisfaction with it, then it was ready for launch! Is it ready to replace Treos (Pro or previous) yet? Not from a functionality standpoint, which has already been mentioned.

    If I wasn't developing applications for the Pre, some unique, my Pre would have gone back within 30 days and would have gone back to a Treo Pro ...
  17. #57  
    The way I look at it, why complain about something that we know will be implemented eventually anyways. The video recording, syncing with desktop, etc. We know palm will eventually have those options. The phone has only been released for not even half a year yet. I think things are going to start rolling soon.. especially when it gets released in Canada and Europe as well.
  18. nsanders's Avatar
    Posts
    89 Posts
    Global Posts
    203 Global Posts
    #58  
    Does anyone use Echo? Can I get a review?
    Nicky
  19. nsanders's Avatar
    Posts
    89 Posts
    Global Posts
    203 Global Posts
    #59  
    I guess I am the only one. And, oh, by the way ... I LOVE IT! It does exactly what I wanted it to do.
    Nicky
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions