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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    However, Palm does currently provided a method to get your email from virtually any email system, right now, no matter what desktop OS you run, or what desktop email client you run on it.

    They did this by abandoning the outdated notion of desktop synchronization.

    The need to get the emails from the desktop application on a specific OS, that, got it from the server was done because the device had no direct access to those servers. Now it does. Time to bypass the "middleman".

    In my opinion, Palm did it right this time, now they only need to fine-tune it.
    Email's not the issue. Every smartphone gets email over the air. The question is where and how your other data is stored, how easy it is to get to / restore, and how secure it is. For some, security is a concern, and parking their data on google's servers just isn't going to cut it, no matter what. For me, a big part of it is that Google's apps are still clumsy, and woefully incomplete, compared to Outlook (and the Pre calendar clumsy and incomplete compare to Datebk on the P-OS). And the Pre won't sync notes and tasks anywhere, which is simply stupid on Palm's part. Yes, there are ways to get data from Outlook to Google to the Pre and back again, but that's even kludgier than Google alone, and you lose the features of outlook that Google doesn't support.

    As I said before, hotsync backs up the entire device. The Pre's implementation of cloud computing fails at that very basic function. Every computer, of any size, should have a total backup and restore function. Palm recognized that 20 years ago, but seems to have forgotten it now.

    What really gets me about your post, though, and those of many others, is the attitude that "syncing to Google works for me, so it should be good enough for you." That's a pretty egocentric attitude. If I turned it around and said "desktop sync is good enough for me, so why do you need all that cloud computing stuff" you'd think that a pretty stupid argument, but you're making pretty much the same argument.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    If you think your data stored on multiple servers in the cloud is secure, you haven't been reading the newspapers. And since the Pre model stores you data in multiple locations (e.g., google servers AND palm servers) there are multiple points of failure where your data can be compromised.

    One can argue about how much security you need for your personal data, but trust me: nothing that's connected to the internet is truly secure. And if you're not using multi-factor authentication (e.g., user-id/password AND a hardware token), it's not even close to secure. Is the data stored on Google's and Palm's servers encrypted? If not, it's almost certainly hackable. The only question is whether anyone will bother.
    And if you think the only options in the cloud are the free systems you read about in the newspapers, you don't know much about IT.

    As far as "truely secure", this is what I do for a living. Nothing that is connected to a wire is "truely secure". Any system that is accessible has acceptable risk rather than being "truely secure".

    The could I sync my important data to is as secure (likely more so) than the the typical desktop user's computer.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    ...
    What really gets me about your post, though, and those of many others, is the attitude that "syncing to Google works for me, so it should be good enough for you." That's a pretty egocentric attitude. If I turned it around and said "desktop sync is good enough for me, so why do you need all that cloud computing stuff" you'd think that a pretty stupid argument, but you're making pretty much the same argument.
    Really, you got that from my post?
    Interesting... since I dont' sync to Google.

    If you said "desktop syncing is good enough for me, so why do you need all that cloud computer stuff", I'd respond with:
    "I bought a cloud computing device to sync with the cloud" if I was using my Pre.
    If I was still using my Palm, I'd respond "I'm looking for a third party cloud sync system, which I'm willing to pay for" (which, BTW, is exactly what I did when I was using my Treo).
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Audemars02 View Post
    I think the biggest problem with Echo is that you have to create a new Account on your Pre called "Palm Desktop" and create all the Contacts and Calendar entries in that profile. So, all your existing "Palm Profile" contacts or calendars don't sync with Echo. And I am not about to recreate all my contacts and Calendar entries with Echo in order to get this to work...and then, by doing this, you lose the benefit of the Palm Profile OTA Backups if you are not by your computer. So, to me this is a useless application unless they can actually sync the Palm Profile account.

    I would agree with this, if I am reading it right. When you say that I have to 'create all the Contacts and Calendar entries in that profile', does that mean re-typing each individual entry? And losing the OTA Backup is a big deal, too.
    How does this app handle all the 'new' data entered since switching to the Pre?
  5. #25  
    The only reason I would think to get this is to sync my memos (including the password protected ones) and there is no functionality for that in this software or pre for that matter which means this is a no-go for me. I will stick with google calendar / gmail for now.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by kgilbertsen View Post
    I would agree with this, if I am reading it right. When you say that I have to 'create all the Contacts and Calendar entries in that profile', does that mean re-typing each individual entry? And losing the OTA Backup is a big deal, too.
    How does this app handle all the 'new' data entered since switching to the Pre?
    From what I can tell, here is what you would need to do:

    For Contacts, I can only see 2 ways of getting contacts into this new profile: (1) Import into Palm Desktop or use an older version of your Contact Data and then sync that to this new profile, or (2) retype all the data into the Pre or Palm Desktop. So, if you are just buying the Pre and converting, this may not be a big deal since your Palm Desktop is up to date. But I have made so many changes in the last 7 weeks that I had data that is not in the Desktop...so I would have to retype all that

    For Calendar, I don't think this is that bad because you can just go into a calendar entry and change the profile that owns the entry...So, you would just still need to go into each and every entry and update the Profile, but it's not that big a deal.

    My biggest issue is that I would lose the OTA backup... I like that feature (as limited as it is) and would rather have it in the cloud that ONLY on my computer. So, until someone develops a sync tool that uses Palm Profile, I guess I am out of luck...right?
  7. #27  
    What I don't get is why Chapura released this without sync-ablility to tasks and memos. Is there something in the WebOS tasks and memos apps or the OS itself that makes this diffucult? :confused
    Palm III > Palm V > Palm Vx > (Sprint) Kyo 6035 > Handspring Treo 300
    > Handspring Treo 600 Oct.'03 > Palm Treo 700P May'06 > Treo 755P Aug.'07 > Pre(-) June'09 + TouchPad July'11 LONG LIVE webOS!!!
  8. #28  
    I agree, USB hdw backup/restore to/from my desktop!
    Palm's over-the radio Backup app is tantamount to data theft.
    BBC said Russians cracked US Pentagon's e-mail servers.
    I don't want my boss' private # & all my info grabbed.
    The "Backup" app turns ON with webOS update (default says a palm Tech)
    BUT Backup has turned itself ON 4 times since.
  9. #29  
    I have to agree with Meyerweb. Being able to restore EVERYTHING that was on your smartphone is the very least one should expect in this day & age. You never know when a) your device might be misplaced or stolen, b) it gets destroyed, or c) you may have to hard-reset it. Palm has a great history in this regard, but when it comes to the Pre.....not.
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    $30, and it still doesn't work as well as plain old hotsync. Sounds like a great solution to me. NOT.

    First, I'd much rather sync to outlook on the desktop, which still isn't available. But this is better that nothing. But I'd also like to have a calendar program that's even as good as what came on the Treo 600 to sync to my desktop. And yes, I'd like to have both these things included in the price of the Pre. It was included with all the Treos, and the iPhone comes with a desktop sync solution. So do BB's, although it's kind of half-assed. It's really a pretty basic feature that everyone else can figure out how to do.

    I might well accept synching to the cloud as an alternative if Palm had implemented it decently, but they didn't. Some of your stuff syncs to the Profile, some of it syncs to google, or to exchange server. And some of it doesn't sync anywhere.

    If my 755p crashes hard, or dies completely, I can do a hard reset or get a replacement, plug it into my desktop, hit the hotsync button, and get everything back. Simply, quickly, reliably. There's no way to do that, yet, on a Pre.

    And if I should leave my Treo at home, or lose it, or just break it, I can go to any of my computers (because it syncs with multiple PCs, no problem) and have access to all of my contacts, calendar events, tasks and memos in one place. Can't do that on the Pre, either.

    These aren't radical, new concepts in handheld devices. They're features that have been available on other devices as long as there have been smartphones. Echo is a start, but it's still only the PIM data, not everything. Why shouldn't I expect Palm's latest, greatest, most modern device to be at least as capable as the Treo 600 I had back in the stone age?
  10. #30  
    $30.00 = Fricking ripoff! Those that say "its a fair price" have not witnessed a truly competitive app store marketplace.

    Another FAIL for the App Store and its momentum.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    $30, and it still doesn't work as well as plain old hotsync. Sounds like a great solution to me. NOT.

    First, I'd much rather sync to outlook on the desktop, which still isn't available. But this is better that nothing. But I'd also like to have a calendar program that's even as good as what came on the Treo 600 to sync to my desktop. And yes, I'd like to have both these things included in the price of the Pre. It was included with all the Treos, and the iPhone comes with a desktop sync solution. So do BB's, although it's kind of half-assed. It's really a pretty basic feature that everyone else can figure out how to do.

    I might well accept synching to the cloud as an alternative if Palm had implemented it decently, but they didn't. Some of your stuff syncs to the Profile, some of it syncs to google, or to exchange server. And some of it doesn't sync anywhere.

    If my 755p crashes hard, or dies completely, I can do a hard reset or get a replacement, plug it into my desktop, hit the hotsync button, and get everything back. Simply, quickly, reliably. There's no way to do that, yet, on a Pre.

    And if I should leave my Treo at home, or lose it, or just break it, I can go to any of my computers (because it syncs with multiple PCs, no problem) and have access to all of my contacts, calendar events, tasks and memos in one place. Can't do that on the Pre, either.

    These aren't radical, new concepts in handheld devices. They're features that have been available on other devices as long as there have been smartphones. Echo is a start, but it's still only the PIM data, not everything. Why shouldn't I expect Palm's latest, greatest, most modern device to be at least as capable as the Treo 600 I had back in the stone age?
    I totally agree as well. Personally I don't really care for Palm desktop, but I do think Palm made a big mistake for not support basic Outlook sync out of the box. That is a major failing of the Pre and I think its really stupid for Palm to rely 3rd party developers to support such a basic feature for an extra cost. I'm totally in agreement with Palm's vision the cloud and synergy, but why on earth must that be at the expense of desktop sync with Outlook? Why not support both? Very stupid Palm....
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    ...
    I'm totally in agreement with Palm's vision the cloud and synergy, but why on earth must that be at the expense of desktop sync with Outlook? Why not support both? Very stupid Palm....
    • Why not Hotmail instead of Outlook (there are more Hotmail users)
    • Why not Thunderbird instead of Outlook (Thunderbird is free, and available on multiple OS's) Palm could include it as part of their "basic package" and include everyone
    • Why not GroupWise instead of Outlook. (It's what I use, and after all, I am the most important part of the equation) - Actually, I use Outlook at home now, and GroupWise at work, but I hope you get the point...
  13. #33  
    Outlook is THE standard email / PIM app in the business world, period. Nothing else comes close. Hotmail doesn't exist in the business world, and it's not a stand-alone desktop app, either. Groupwise has a trivial # of users. Like it or not, MS is the 800 lb gorilla in the desktop / laptop world. I hope you get that point.

    But for me it's not so much about which desktop PIM app is supported. It's about having an alternative to the cloud, that can be accessed at any time, even when not connected, and with the ability to fully backup and recover your data. The entire world isn't connected yet, there are places you can't take a phone, or use an internet connection. But when I backup my Treo to my laptop, that data is always available there. As for a full restore, the Pre totally fails at that. Not only does the Pre not back up everything, you can't do a restore unless you have a data connection. And unless you have a wi-fi connection, forget about getting your restore done right now. I don't need a data connection or a PC to backup or restore my Treo.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    • Why not Hotmail instead of Outlook (there are more Hotmail users)
    • Why not Thunderbird instead of Outlook (Thunderbird is free, and available on multiple OS's) Palm could include it as part of their "basic package" and include everyone
    • Why not GroupWise instead of Outlook. (It's what I use, and after all, I am the most important part of the equation) - Actually, I use Outlook at home now, and GroupWise at work, but I hope you get the point...
    Really...your stretching it a bit far aren't you? Why Outlook? Because it is the defacto standard for most people in the world and all previous Palm products have always had support for this. Outlook sync is not some legacy feature but a real requirement for a large part of the market. It's a simple business proposition and it's confusing why Palm would ignore it. Why not the support the other platforms? Because they are not standards and not as big part of the market, which is why it would make sense for 3rd party developers to fill in the gap here...

    In regards to hotmail, I do hope Palm enables synergy with hotmail as well...and in fact yahoo too. Why not have all your contacts combined in synergy with all the different web services? I would like to be able to choose which webmail based service (gmail, yahoo, hotmail etc) I would like to sync to and which services to add to synergy or not. Isn't that the whole point of synergy anyway? And shouldn't Palm be going in that direction concerning cloud computing? Wouldn't it be in Palm's "business" interest to be "webmail sync" agnostic in this regard? You should be able to sync with any of these service and combine synergy with other online PIM as well. I realize simutaneously syncing contacts to all these accounts at once would be difficult, but I would PAY extra for a feature like that....however outlook syncing should have been out the box...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  15. #35  
    I'm unable to install the ChapuraSyncManager on Vista 32 on my laptop. Seems to be trying to install a common sync program that supports both Outlook and Palm Desktop. Errors out because it can not find Microsoft.Office.Interop.Outlook which should not be even needed for Palm Desktop synchronization. WTH are these guys doing?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ChemEngr View Post
    What I don't get is why Chapura released this without sync-ablility to tasks and memos. Is there something in the WebOS tasks and memos apps or the OS itself that makes this diffucult? :confused
    The NEW Palm is clearly clueless about the PalmOS/Treo built-in apps and how good they really are. I'm still using Palm Desktop because the Pre apps are horrible. I can't believe they didn't just copy the functionality since EVERY user will be using those!
  17. #37  
    I think that if you are still arguing that your phone should sync with Outlook you are missing the point of both Outlook & Synergy.

    Hint: Where does Outlook get its data? Why shouldn't your phone get it from the same place?

    (People running standalone Outlook installs are an infinitesmal (but loud) part of Palm's userbase. They need to push the Pre the way they're doing it. Let third parties create junky Outlook sync solutions for Luddites like they're doing.)
  18. #38  
    I think that if you are still arguing that your phone should sync with Outlook you are missing the point of both Outlook & Synergy.

    Hint: Where does Outlook get its data? Why shouldn't your phone get it from the same place?

    (People running standalone Outlook installs are an infinitesmal (but loud) part of Palm's userbase. They need to push the Pre the way they're doing it. Let third parties create junky Outlook sync solutions for Luddites like they're doing.)
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Really...your stretching it a bit far aren't you? Why Outlook? Because it is the defacto standard for most people in the world and all previous Palm products have always had support for this.
    I keep seeing this type of stuff, but it's simply not true.

    • Outlook is most likely not the "defacto standard for most people in the world" (and I'll ignore the redundancy). The most recent survey I found from Fingerprint, 36% of business users use Outlook. That's a plurality, but not "most" (IE > 50%). However, even that statistic is misleading, because it includes Outlook 2003 and earlier (29%) and Outlook 2007 (7%). The two clients operate differently, and would need different sync engines to work.
      The number for consumers is 27%, with Outlook 2003 and earlier at 14% and 2007 at 13%
      The largest single "client" for business users is Hotmail (33%) (btw, for what it's worth, I found that one pretty amazing as well.) For consumers, Yahoo, beats all versions of Outlook at 29%. Hotmail is close on its tail at 25%, but still beats out either version of Outlook.
    • The original Palm Desktop software did not sync with Outlook. You had to purchased the add-on Pocket Mirror, until Palm licensed the product from Chapura. I believe that began with the Palm III. Who knows, maybe if it's popular enough with the Pre, Palm will license Echo as well. However, the notion that it "all previous Palm products have always had support" for it is simply incorrect.


    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Outlook sync is not some legacy feature but a real requirement for a large part of the market. It's a simple business proposition and it's confusing why Palm would ignore it. Why not the support the other platforms? Because they are not standards and not as big part of the market, which is why it would make sense for 3rd party developers to fill in the gap here...
    If Fingerprint's stats are correct, this is is pretty much moot, as it's based on incorrect information.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    In regards to hotmail, I do hope Palm enables synergy with hotmail as well...and in fact yahoo too. Why not have all your contacts combined in synergy with all the different web services? I would like to be able to choose which webmail based service (gmail, yahoo, hotmail etc) I would like to sync to and which services to add to synergy or not. Isn't that the whole point of synergy anyway? And shouldn't Palm be going in that direction concerning cloud computing? Wouldn't it be in Palm's "business" interest to be "webmail sync" agnostic in this regard? You should be able to sync with any of these service and combine synergy with other online PIM as well. I realize simutaneously syncing contacts to all these accounts at once would be difficult, but I would PAY extra for a feature like that....however outlook syncing should have been out the box...
    I agree with all of this, except that it would be "difficult". I believe it's all coming. The other current offerings were all based on pretty standardized client/server email mechanisms; while Hotmail and Yahoo are both more custom. However, I believe (and hope) we'll see them.
    I wouldn't be totally surprised to see Palm try to get them to develop their own, and possibly they'll even be third party add-ons (probably depends on consumer demand). Palm may have decided to "test the waters" with a few out of the box, and depend on third party for the rest. Or, maybe they'll look for third party developers and license their offerings. As I said, the original (and now very much outmoded) syncronization that Palm licensed from Chapura took a few cycles to show up for free.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by BitBucket View Post
    I think that if you are still arguing that your phone should sync with Outlook you are missing the point of both Outlook & Synergy.

    Hint: Where does Outlook get its data? Why shouldn't your phone get it from the same place?

    (People running standalone Outlook installs are an infinitesmal (but loud) part of Palm's userbase. They need to push the Pre the way they're doing it. Let third parties create junky Outlook sync solutions for Luddites like they're doing.)
    Hint: Not everyone is on their phone all day

    Hint: Not everyone checks their email only on their phone

    Hint: Not everyone has access to webmail at their workstation

    Hint: Not everyone wants to use gmail to access their PIM

    Hint: A lot people use outlook for PIM

    Hint: A lot of people would like local non-cloud repository for their PIM as backup

    Why is this so hard to understand? Why are so many people defending Palm for taking features away that existed in the PREVIOUS devices? Why does synergy have to be an either or situation? Why not sync with the cloud and outlook both? Seriously, it's like Palm releases a product > Palm removes basic feature present in all previous devices which is industry standard > makes you have pay extra for this basic feature by forcing you to buy 3rd party apps > Palm says tough its their new synergy model > Palm users bend over and take it > indignant Palm users criticize others for not wanting to bend over with them and take as well...sheesh...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

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