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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    They used a hack to get into itunes, look up the meaning of what a hack is. Some of you just don't want to admit that they used a hack, so you want to argue semantics.

    Most of you? I guess you haven't read the responses in this thread saying that it's alright for Palm to go after the Android people but damn Apple if they prevent Palm from using hacks to get into their software.
    Adjei,
    Why do you think Apple has not filed legal papers to stop palm from enabling Itunes sync?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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       #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    A hack is looking at the device ID? Um... yeah, ok. It's been known for quite some time that's how Apple does it (how else would they do it? it's a USB standard for a reason...).

    Just look at it in device manager...
    For the last time please look up the definition of what a hack is.
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       #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Adjei,
    Why do you think Apple has not filed legal papers to stop palm from enabling Itunes sync?
    How do you know they aren't preparing a case, the Pre has only been out since June.
  4. #64  
    Well,
    I'd like to think APPLE has some pretty good lawyers on retainer, and it wouldn't take months to get infront of a judge with a complaint would it? Not to say they would reach a verdict, but it seems like it would only take a letter or something to reignite the fire of this on every tech blog out there. Apple would have done something by now if they could, At least thats my thought...

    Also,
    you don't "prepare" the case before alerting the other party that there is a complaint and that legal action could follow..
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    For the last time please look up the definition of what a hack is.
    heh
  6. #66  
    Well, I like to be devil's advocate, and most everyone is arguing against Adjei, so I'll take his side.

    Adjei has a point. His point is that Palm is "upset" that someone (maker of Palm Pre theme for Android) has used their stuff, and they are also "upset" that someone else (Apple) won't let Palm use their stuff. This appears to be somewhat hypocritical. Regardless of the terminology, when you look at it this way, Adjei has a point. Palm is indeed "upset" with Apple, as evidenced by filing a complaint with the USB standards folks. Of course, this has no legal ramifications, the only thing at risk is a USB logo. Palm is in some sense using Apple's stuff by interfacing with iTunes, although they are not distributing iTunes or using any iTunes logos or anything. So, if you put the situation this way, Adjei is correct.

    Alright, now, having said that, Adjei, you must certainly see that both the kinds of stuff and the kinds of usages have some very important differences. First, the usages are different. Palm is technically not using iTunes, they are making it easy for their customers to use iTunes. It would be different if Palm were distributing iTunes, or even providing a link to a download page for iTunes. Instead, Palm's usage is to allow customers who already are using iTunes to easily sync their existing iTunes distribution with their Pre. This is very different from the way the Android theme developer is using the Pre graphics, who seem to be distributing the graphics directly. Secondly, the stuff is different. Palm is really only using the interface to iTunes, not the software itself. The interface doesn't appear to be protected by copyright laws or patents, as it's USB. This is very different from the stuff The Android theme developer is using: graphics and look and feel that are certainly protected by copyright and probably patents too.

    So while Adjei has a point, if construed a particular way, there are enough important differences between what Palm is doing and what Apple is doing that the comparison breaks down pretty quickly.

    I would also say to both Adjei and Kupe, you guys seem to think that Palm has decided to go the easy route by simply "leeching" off of iTunes. It does kind of look that way, but I think you guys are misunderstanding Palm's motivation. Why has Palm made the Pre look like an iPod? Because it makes Apple look bad and generates press. It is marketing plain and simple. It probably does not serve their customers as well as their own custom software solution would (although people who are using iTunes tend to like it). But that wouldn't garner the kind of attention syncing directly with iTunes is generating. I agree it's a bit shady, but you have to also recognize the marketing genius in it. I bet Rubinstein jumped for joy when he found out that Apple blocked the Pre. I bet they planned on the cat and mouse game from the very beginning.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  7. #67  
    Forget about the hacks, as stated: To be fair, Palm comes out and says that it "appreciates that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery," but at the end of the day, they're concerned about the potential for consumer confusion.

    The reason they're not mad at Apple for Palm based themes is not because of the iTunes thing, but because of the iPhone's iconic status. Everyone just knows the iPhone, from its shape, os, icons, apps as well.

    Even though Google's been out with Android, not many are aware of it (maybe because its on tmo). And since Palm stepped into the scene with their revamped webOS (obviously a new line for Palm) which is garnering lots of attention, it's easy for a user to mixed the two up at this stage. Especially since Android will be out on other carriers like Sprint. The two are similar, geez, if it were not for the way they are skinned, I myself would not be able to differentiate the two. In fact I can't even come up with 5 things that set them apart off the top my head.

    Let's see, hmm:
    1) OS looks different
    2) hardware looks different.
    3) multitasking.
    4) .....can't think from here on out they are similar

    Palm is trying to make themselves stand out in a market where it's easy to be consumed by the competition. There were in critical care a few months back hanging on its last thread. They're currently in the process of being upgraded to stable condition. So they're not quite out the the rough zone yet.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    you guys seem to think that Palm has decided to go the easy route by simply "leeching" off of iTunes. It does kind of look that way, but I think you guys are misunderstanding Palm's motivation. Why has Palm made the Pre look like an iPod? Because it makes Apple look bad and generates press. It is marketing plain and simple. It probably does not serve their customers as well as their own custom software solution would (although people who are using iTunes tend to like it). But that wouldn't garner the kind of attention syncing directly with iTunes is generating. I agree it's a bit shady, but you have to also recognize the marketing genius in it. I bet Rubinstein jumped for joy when he found out that Apple blocked the Pre. I bet they planned on the cat and mouse game from the very beginning.
    Your theory defies over a decade of proven Palm behavior - behavior that persists to the present. Like the products that preceded it, the Pre and it's WebOS are half-finished promises of unfulfilled goodness. Simply put, Palm lacks the business savvy, marketing guts, and intellectual horsepower to make an ounce of truth out of your fictional account. On the other hand, Palm has almost a decade of history producing half-finished, marginally improved, cheap-feeling devices. That's why they're leeching off iTunes today - they needed something at release and couldn't produce a solution of their own in time. Occam's Razor applies here for sure.
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    #69  
    Even though Google's been out with Android, not many are aware of it (maybe because its on tmo). And since Palm stepped into the scene with their revamped webOS (obviously a new line for Palm) which is garnering lots of attention, it's easy for a user to mixed the two up at this stage. Especially since Android will be out on other carriers like Sprint.
    Avoiding confusion between the two products is the key reason behind Palm's actions with the Pre theme on Android. Palm apparently intends to release more webOS devices in the future, so they don't want people who don't know about Android to think that they're seeing a new webOS device and buying someone else's product thinking it really has (or can run) webOS.

    The iPhone is well known enough that they don't really have to worry about that, so it's not worth going after whoever created the theme for the iPhone.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbrg548 View Post
    Avoiding confusion between the two products is the key reason behind Palm's actions with the Pre theme on Android. Palm apparently intends to release more webOS devices in the future, so they don't want people who don't know about Android to think that they're seeing a new webOS device and buying someone else's product thinking it really has (or can run) webOS.

    The iPhone is well known enough that they don't really have to worry about that, so it's not worth going after whoever created the theme for the iPhone.
    My point exactly. This is nothing like the iTunes incident.
  11. #71  
    bottom line both companies are wrong...palm shouldnt get its panties in a bunch over a theme....and apple should let other devices sync itunes directly...
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Yeah and Apple has to protect the ability of other companies using hacks to get into their software, after all if Palm does what is stopping the likes of RIM and Nokia following, it's that simple.
    First, I disagree completely. I don't think Apple has done anything because what Palm is doing is not a legal issue.

    Assuming you're right though (that it's a legal issue), I agree. Apple must go after Palm. That's one of the requirements for protecting a registered trademark, you must take steps to protect it. Legal steps. So, since we both "agree" they they "have to", the question remains - why hasn't Apple done so? And please don't answer that it's their altruistic nature...
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by dj ozone View Post
    bottom line both companies are wrong...palm shouldnt get its panties in a bunch over a theme....and apple should let other devices sync itunes directly...
    Palm has to get "its panties in a bunch", it's a legal requirement to protect their registered trademark.
  14. #74  
    i understand why they don't like it but it's going to be virtually impossible to stop. i mean i've used skins on my computer so i'd imagine there would be tons of these. Deep down though i think if Palm had done a stellar job in marketing the pre it wouldn't matter. Apple is less worried about this cause everyone knows what an iphone is. Iphone is a whole idea of a product that's sold very well. In the last two hours i've seen three ipod commericals on tv. Palm Pre isn't at that point people aren't yet sure what it is or if it's just the os on plenty of peoples hardware, kinda like windows mobile and android.
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       #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    First, I disagree completely. I don't think Apple has done anything because what Palm is doing is not a legal issue.

    Assuming you're right though (that it's a legal issue), I agree. Apple must go after Palm. That's one of the requirements for protecting a registered trademark, you must take steps to protect it. Legal steps. So, since we both "agree" they they "have to", the question remains - why hasn't Apple done so? And please don't answer that it's their altruistic nature...
    It takes a while to build a case. It took Apple some months to build a case against one of the clone makers when they started selling clone Macs.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    It takes a while to build a case. It took Apple some months to build a case against one of the clone makers when they started selling clone Macs.
    One of the first steps in "building a case" is to publicly tell the offender to cease. It takes almost no time for Apple to do that.

    The iPod/USB issue happened weeks ago, both incidents. Nothing from Apple insisting Palm stop (other than modifying their software). The Android skin came out after the iPod/USB incident, and Palm has already responded.

    Again, they are totall seperate issues. The strongest successful action Apple could take is to complain to the USB committee.
  17. #77  
    It's hard for me to take an argument seriously when it refers to Wikipedia as its ultimate source. "Truth by consensus" doesn't make it so.

    (I'm referring to the definition of a "hack". Don't take the popular way out - refer to a reliable source.)
    Last edited by Fisack23; 08/13/2009 at 09:09 AM. Reason: addition to thought
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    It's hard for me to take an argument seriously when it refers to Wikipedia as its ultimate source. "Truth by consensus" doesn't make it so.

    (I'm referring to the definition of a "hack". Don't take the popular way out - refer to a reliable source.)
    I know the definition of hack, and I can't for the life of me understand what a taxi has to do with any of this...
  19. #79  
    I always thought a "hack" was what my cat does when it gets a hairball.
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