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  1. #41  
    yeah the differance? Apple didn't create USB standards.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  2. Adjei's Avatar
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       #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    yeah the differance? Apple didn't create USB standards.
    Yeah but they created iTunes!
  3. reminiz's Avatar
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    #43  
    Adjei, I think you've stated your piece, but you're not going to convince these people otherwise, and likewise.

    How come everyone left Kupe's post alone?
  4. Adjei's Avatar
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       #44  
    I made no claim that iTunes is open source, and I do agree, it was created by Apple. That being said, consider the following hypothetical situation:
    Ford Motor Corporation makes money selling Ford branded car stereos when you buy a car. As a result, Ford has an interest in upselling the MP3/CD changer when you buy a new car. This being said, Ford can make a "rule" that only Ford branded car stereos can work in my F-150, but it doesn't make it legally binding.
    If a third-party wants to make a car stereo that works in my Ford vehicle, there is nothing that Ford can do to stop them. Creating a car stereo that works in a Ford vehicle is not copyright infringement. Creating a media player that syncs with iTunes is not copyright infringement.
    Your analogy is flawed. What Apple is doing is akin to what Microsoft does with the Zune software which they use to sync Zunes. Last time I checked I can't plug in an iphone and expect the Zune software to pick it up, you also can't plug in a Pre and expect the Zune software to work with it. I wonder why Palm isn't doing the same "hack" they did to enable the Zune software to work with the Pre, maybe because the Zune software isn't well known, so let me guess they want to leech of the biggest name in the industry, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..



    Why exactly would Canon sue Palm due to the fact that Canon printers don't work with HP software? I don't follow you on this.
    This is an analogy I'm using. You can't take your Canon printer and expect it to work with HP software even though you make like HP software and it may be the biggest name out there. Canon has no right to tell HP that their printers have to work with HP's software.



    I will state once again: you have made no valid claim that Palm is infringing on any Apple intellectual property or copyright. The Android theme, on the other hand, is infringing on Palm's copyright.

    FYI, logic is the formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning (from Wikipedia). Just because you are emotionally upset that Palm is spoofing an iPod to interface with iTunes does not make logically sound your argument that the Android and Apple situations are similar.
    If you take off you Palm tinted glasses, maybe you might see how they are similar.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reminiz View Post
    How come everyone left Kupe's post alone?
    Personally, I didn't refute Kupe's post because his is not trying to draw an erroneous parallel to a separate, dissimilar situation. He didn't attempt to make a claim that what Palm is doing is illegal. He only claimed that it is unethical.

    I agree that it is unethical, but the world operates on legal principles, and that's what I was trying unsuccessfully to get across to Adjei.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    This is an analogy I'm using. You can't take your Canon printer and expect it to work with HP software even though you make like HP software and it may be the biggest name out there. Canon has no right to tell HP that their printers have to work with HP's software.
    Actually, this is a good analogy that helps prove my point. HP created JetDirect devices that were installed in HP LaserJet printers to provide network connectivity. In the protocol, TCP port 9100 was used to listen to requests. Canon created printers that used this same port to listen, thereby emulating the JetDirect functionality. As a result, you can use legacy HP LaserJet drivers to print to a Canon network printer. Canon was free to reverse engineer the JetDirect protocol, and that is indeed what they did.

    Mandating that a device works with a software program is different than prohibiting a device from working with a software program. I did not see anyone arguing that Apple has to make iTunes work with the Palm Pre. We are just stating that Palm is free in their quest to create a workaround that makes their device work with iTunes. As Apple is free to try and break that workaround with iTunes updates.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Yeah but they created iTunes!
    Microsoft created Windows. So i guess they should be able to restrict the browsers that work with it?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  8. Adjei's Avatar
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       #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Microsoft created Windows. So i guess they should be able to restrict the browsers that work with it?
    Wrong analogy. Microsoft created Zune Desktop and they restrict which devices sync with it. Just like Apple created itunes and they restrict which devices can sync with it.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    yeah the differance? Apple didn't create USB standards.
    Apple did create the USB protocols specific to iTunes/iPod syncing. However, I can find no documentation/legalese regarding how Apple categorizes the "fair use" iTunes-specific protocols. I did find that once upon a time, Apple used to sell licenses to their iTunes protocol, but they stopped doing that in 2004.
  10. drakej's Avatar
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    #50  
    Who would have known we had so many IP/Patent lawyers on a Pre forum.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakej View Post
    Who would have known we had so many IP/Patent lawyers on a Pre forum.
    Or IP/Patent owners...
  12. #52  
    This will be the third time I've posted the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I'm especially concerned how quick ones will call someone a troll - it's wrong.
    If the person is genuinely a troll then the post should be reported so staff can review it. Actually, if the person is truly trolling, a reply is of no help and is also a forum violation:
    Personal Attacks - Do not flame, insult, or post a personal attack against another. Be courteous, not rude. Do not troll or respond to trolls. Posters adding on to the same flaming or insulting post can earn the same infraction.
    Respect others - Be courteous to other forum members.... Be tolerant of those who disagree with your opinion and discuss differences in a constructive manner. Personal attacks or name calling will not be tolerated.
    Please stop calling others Troll or Fanboy - Please!
    Just call me Berd.
  13. Adjei's Avatar
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       #53  
    The irony of all this is the Pre pretends to be an ipod in order to access itunes but when the G1 wants to pretend to be a Pre, Palm says no.
  14. #54  
    There is a difference here. A company has to protect their registered trademarks, or they loose them. It's that simple.
  15. Adjei's Avatar
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       #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There is a difference here. A company has to protect their registered trademarks, or they loose them. It's that simple.
    Yeah and Apple has to protect the ability of other companies using hacks to get into their software, after all if Palm does what is stopping the likes of RIM and Nokia following, it's that simple.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    The irony of all this is the Pre pretends to be an ipod in order to access itunes but when the G1 wants to pretend to be a Pre, Palm says no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Yeah and Apple has to protect the ability of other companies using hacks to get into their software, after all if Palm does what is stopping the likes of RIM and Nokia following, it's that simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    LOL at some of the fanboys on this site, anything contradictory to what Palm says makes you a "moron" or "troll".
    See? Troll.

    Adjei said that Palm hacked iTunes which is wrong, they are spoofing their device ID. They did not modify iTunes therefore they didn't hack it; they found a workaround.

    This was already explained in the beginning of the thread. Adjei doesn't listen and insists on insults and other means to get a rise out of people.

    Most of us do not like Palm's method especially since there are APIs available so I don't think anyone here is being a fanboy and defending Palm's decision.
  17. Adjei's Avatar
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       #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    See? Troll.

    Adjei said that Palm hacked iTunes which is wrong, they are spoofing their device ID. They did not modify iTunes therefore they didn't hack it; they found a workaround.

    This was already explained in the beginning of the thread. Adjei doesn't listen and insists on insults and other means to get a rise out of people.

    Most of us do not like Palm's method especially since there are APIs available so I don't think anyone here is being a fanboy and defending Palm's decision.
    They used a hack to get into itunes, look up the meaning of what a hack is. Some of you just don't want to admit that they used a hack, so you want to argue semantics.

    Most of you? I guess you haven't read the responses in this thread saying that it's alright for Palm to go after the Android people but damn Apple if they prevent Palm from using hacks to get into their software.
  18. #58  
    Palm needs to stop wasting time by going after Android and fix the Pre webos issues.
    ***I Twitter***

    Stop complaining & start doing ---> Leave feedback/suggestions for Palm here
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by RanGT View Post
    Palm needs to stop wasting time by going after Android and fix the Pre webos issues.
    Yes, because the lawyers who are spending time going after Android would otherwise have been fixing webos.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    They used a hack to get into itunes, look up the meaning of what a hack is. Some of you just don't want to admit that they used a hack, so you want to argue semantics.
    A hack is looking at the device ID? Um... yeah, ok. It's been known for quite some time that's how Apple does it (how else would they do it? it's a USB standard for a reason...).

    Just look at it in device manager...
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