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  1. #21  
    From the Wikipedia article "Reverse Engineering":

    "Reverse engineering software or hardware systems which is done for the purposes of interoperability (for example, to support undocumented file formats or undocumented hardware peripherals) is mostly believed to be legal, though patent owners often contest this and attempt to stifle any reverse engineering of their products for any reason."

    Palm has in effect reverse engineered the USB details that are presented by the iPod and used them on the Pre. It is entirely Apple's right to attempt to stifle or close this loophole, so I don't agree with Palm's plea to the USB Implementers Forum. Copyright infringement, on the other hand, has never been legal.

    And please, consider your use of logic carefully before making statements that are fallacious.
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       #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryan.lynch View Post
    From the Wikipedia article "Reverse Engineering":

    "Reverse engineering software or hardware systems which is done for the purposes of interoperability (for example, to support undocumented file formats or undocumented hardware peripherals) is mostly believed to be legal, though patent owners often contest this and attempt to stifle any reverse engineering of their products for any reason."

    Palm has in effect reverse engineered the USB details that are presented by the iPod and used them on the Pre. It is entirely Apple's right to attempt to stifle or close this loophole, so I don't agree with Palm's plea to the USB Implementers Forum. Copyright infringement, on the other hand, has never been legal.

    And please, consider your use of logic carefully before making analogies that are fallacious.
    And you know Palm has reverse engineered itunes because?

    I wonder why all the geniuses at the other companies who sync itunes using proper APIs didn't think or reverse engineering before Rubenstein and the other fellas from Apple came to Palm. I wonder why the old Palm didn't choose to reverse engineer the USB details presented when you plug in your ipod or iphone into itunes.
  3. #23  
    let me see if i can clear some stuff up for you guys.

    Plam changed the software side of their USB interface to read as an ipod due to apple doing the same for their products. However palm has filed a complaint due to their belief that it is a violation of TOS for the USB community.

    So please stop the spamming about the word terminology used or the oppinionated justification of palm to go after android.

    thanks
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    And you know Palm has reverse engineered itunes because?

    I wonder why all the geniuses at the other companies who sync itunes using proper APIs didn't think or reverse engineering before Rubenstein and the other fellas from Apple came to Palm. I wonder why the old Palm didn't choose to reverse engineer the USB details presented when you plug in your ipod or iphone into itunes.
    First, I didn't say that Palm has reverse engineered iTunes. I said that Palm has reverse engineered the USB details that are presented by the iPod.

    Second, these APIs of which you speak have been licensed in the past to companies that manufactured MP3 players. Since the introduction of the iPhone it appears that they have refused to license these APIs to phone manufacturers.

    If there is not a legitimate way for Palm to sync with iTunes, then they must reverse engineer their own solution, and that is indeed what they did. Call it unethical, but it is indeed legal.
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       #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryan.lynch View Post
    First, I didn't say that Palm has reverse engineered iTunes. I said that Palm has reverse engineered the USB details that are presented by the iPod.

    Second, these APIs of which you speak have been licensed in the past to companies that manufactured MP3 players. Since the introduction of the iPhone it appears that they have refused to license these APIs to phone manufacturers.

    If there is not a legitimate way for Palm to sync with iTunes, then they must reverse engineer their own solution, and that is indeed what they did. Call it unethical, but it is indeed legal.
    How do you think the likes of RIM, Nokia, and others sync with itunes, they don't do it directly like what Palm is trying, they have their own programs which sync with itunes. You don't see Apple having a problem with that.

    There used to be other mp3 players that could sync with itunes but that was in the beginning and Apple has decided to stop the licensing. None of those mp3 players are even manufactured today. Is it by force to license our software for others. It's not Apple is preventing you from purchasing music of itunes and putting it on the Pre, they just don't want to you syncing with their program and that is within their rights. See how when somebody else wants to do something similar to Palm, they want to shut it down but when Apple does it to them they go crying to the USB group.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Is the Pre made by Apple?

    Why is itunes recognizing a device made by Palm as being made by Apple?

    If this isn't a hack, then I have a bridge in India to sell you.

    Not to be rude but when people blab about knowing something when they don't... Pre did not hack or mod itunes in any ways shape or form they spoofed the pre's id to look like a ipod that's all they did nothing more... Read up on that thread then talk about it...
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       #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by gitit20 View Post
    Not to be rude but when people blab about knowing something when they don't... Pre did not hack or mod itunes in any ways shape or form they spoofed the pre's id to look like a ipod that's all they did nothing more... Read up on that thread then talk about it...
    Nonsense, they still performed a hack whether you like it or not. Trying to downplay what they did won't earn you any points. They are now acting like bloody hypocrites with regards to the Android theme.
    Last edited by Adjei; 08/12/2009 at 02:35 PM.
  8. #28  
    The irony about all of this is it would be a simple, straightforward program to map out and synchronize with an iTunes library without even touching iTunes. It's not as if Apple encrypts the library information somewhere hidden on the hard drive. The challenge Palm seems unable to meet is the ability, wherewithal, or plain gumption to write that simple program. Arrogant and lazy - it should be Palm's posted business slogan.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    See how when somebody else wants to do something similar to Palm, they want to shut it down but when Apple does it to them they go crying to the USB group.
    Again, your logic is nonexistent.

    Palm is spoofing the device ID and host ID of the iPod to be able to sync with iTunes. They are not using look-and-feel of the iPod on the Pre. Nor are they using any Apple created content on the Pre.

    The Pre theme for Android is using icons, wallpaper, and other elements that were created by Palm. The Android theme infringes on Palm's copyright.

    Please explain how you see these two situations as similar.
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       #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bryan.lynch View Post
    Again, your logic is nonexistent.

    Palm is spoofing the device ID and host ID of the iPod to be able to sync with iTunes. They are not using look-and-feel of the iPod on the Pre. Nor are they using any Apple created content on the Pre.

    The Pre theme for Android is using icons, wallpaper, and other elements that were created by Palm. The Android theme infringes on Palm's copyright.

    Please explain how you see these two situations as similar.
    I think it's you that needs to work on your logic. You know that itunes was created by Apple, it's not some open source software that everyone ha access to. They set rules for which devices can sync with itunes just like I can't expect my Cannon printer to work with HP software. Cannon should sue Palm and report them to the USB group for blocking Cannon printers from accessing HP software.

    Palm has the audacity to tell the Android developers they are infringing on something they created but yet are all happy to go and infringe on something Apple created and use hacks to gain access to it.
  11. #31  
    On other notes I think palm should not be so harsh on the comp. that made the pre theme... I can under stand it's Plam's stuff but People have been making devices look like other brands for years... I have seen iPhone themes on WM PDA's and vice versa. mac themes on windows. windows themes on mac. ubuntu themes on both mac and windows.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Nonsense, they still performed a hack whether you like it or not. Trying to downplay what they did won't earn you any points. They are now acting like bloody hypocrites with regards to the Android theme.
    Well think what you want but i think it was more of a spoofing of the pre's ID then a hack... O and i did not know i was looking for points? I don't want nor need any points...
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       #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by gitit20 View Post
    Well think what you want but i think it was more of a spoofing of the pre's ID then a hack... O and i did not know i was looking for points? I don't want nor need any points...
    Spoofing is basically a hack:

    "a spoofing attack is a situation in which one person or program successfully masquerades as another by falsifying data and thereby gaining an illegitimate advantage."

    Spoofing attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  14. #34  
    haha this thread is...... wow
  15. #35  
    Sorry but Adjei is a moron and a troll. Stop feeding it and this thread will get locked.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Spoofing is basically a hack:

    "a spoofing attack is a situation in which one person or program successfully masquerades as another by falsifying data and thereby gaining an illegitimate advantage."

    Spoofing attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    They did not ATTACK i tunes... Lets just drop it and move on to the real goal of this thread and talk about the whole theme thing...
  17. #37  
    In continuing with the spirit of this thread and remaining off topic I gotta say... draztikrhymez, I absolutely love the pic of that GT-R in your avatar.

    But seriously, it is hard to understand why Palm is going after some Android developer's Pre like UI, but not a similar UI someone did for the iPhone. Bottom line is, none of us will ever be able to fully understand the twisted logic that drives any decent sized corporation's legal department.
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       #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    Sorry but Adjei is a moron and a troll. Stop feeding it and this thread will get locked.
    LOL at some of the fanboys on this site, anything contradictory to what Palm says makes you a "moron" or "troll".
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Nonsense, they still performed a hack whether you like it or not. Trying to downplay what they did won't earn you any points. They are now acting like bloody hypocrites with regards to the Android theme.
    Everyone is a hypocrite... Why should a company be any different? They simply offered a service that they figured customers would appeal to. They are doing what is best for their company on both points.

    Not that I care...Don't even sync with anything.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    I think it's you that needs to work on your logic. You know that itunes was created by Apple, it's not some open source software that everyone ha access to. They set rules for which devices can sync with itunes just like I can't expect my Cannon printer to work with HP software.
    I made no claim that iTunes is open source, and I do agree, it was created by Apple. That being said, consider the following hypothetical situation:
    Ford Motor Corporation makes money selling Ford branded car stereos when you buy a car. As a result, Ford has an interest in upselling the MP3/CD changer when you buy a new car. This being said, Ford can make a "rule" that only Ford branded car stereos can work in my F-150, but it doesn't make it legally binding.
    If a third-party wants to make a car stereo that works in my Ford vehicle, there is nothing that Ford can do to stop them. Creating a car stereo that works in a Ford vehicle is not copyright infringement. Creating a media player that syncs with iTunes is not copyright infringement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Cannon should sue Palm and report them to the USB group for blocking Cannon printers from accessing HP software.
    Why exactly would Canon sue Palm due to the fact that Canon printers don't work with HP software? I don't follow you on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    Palm has the audacity to tell the Android developers they are infringing on something they created but yet are all happy to go and infringe on something Apple created and use hacks to gain access to it.
    I will state once again: you have made no valid claim that Palm is infringing on any Apple intellectual property or copyright. The Android theme, on the other hand, is infringing on Palm's copyright.

    FYI, logic is the formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning (from Wikipedia). Just because you are emotionally upset that Palm is spoofing an iPod to interface with iTunes does not make logically sound your argument that the Android and Apple situations are similar.
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