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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Great, I'm pleased he was able to clear up the misinformaton that some folks bandied about.
    I think he may have been the one spreading misinformation.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I think he may have been the one spreading misinformation.
    Then take him up on the bet, make some money...

    Or, just keep bandying about ...
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Then take him up on the bet, make some money...

    Or, just keep bandying about ...
    Are you sure he is still offering it?
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Are you sure he is still offering it?
    Guess there's one way to find out - take him up on it.
    Or, just keep bandying about...
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Guess there's one way to find out - take him up on it.
    Or, just keep bandying about...
    Since he no longer seems it be involved in this thread, perhap you can explain what that means.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Since he no longer seems it be involved in this thread, perhap you can explain what that means.
    First of all, he posted on here about 8 hours ago. I suspect he's got a real job that doesn't allow the down time that you and I seem to have.

    Secondly, sorry if my somewhat snide remarks went past you, so I'll spell it out for you. I think it's you that are sending out the misinformation. It seems to be your goal on here, to send out as much negative information about a device that you don't like, wheter it's fact or just opinion, or whether it's based in reality or conjecture. I don't really understand the attraction, but I guess it's good to have a hobby.

    Hey, sorry for the rant, but you did ask.

    I'll repeat though, I think he can do exactly what he said.
  7. #127  
    I know you believe You are willing to believe anyone who tells you what you want to hear. There are many in these forums spouting absolute nonsense with great authority (e.g. WebOS is new from the 'ground up'). OTOH I don't think a dose of reality hurts anyone. Its just a phone. Your 'snide' remarks were not unnoticed but also not deserving of a reply.

    As to my motivations. I have owned Palm devices for the last 10 years, I am interested in their replacement for it even if I disagree with some of the decisions they made. I have been writing software since the 6502 was competing with the Z80 (some of it was in 6502) so I am particularly interested in the more technical threads.

    BTW I don't believe your new friend can do what he claimed. I also think he realizes it now. Unlike you I have interviewed a lot of software developers.
    Last edited by ADGrant; 08/25/2009 at 05:44 PM.
  8. #128  
    This is getting absolutely ridiculous.

    Yes, it is absolutely possible to play a large amount of what Kinoma does if you had the feed to their content, which nobody but them has.

    Yes, some of their functionality is playing other formats and that can't be done on the Pre right now.

    No, Palm has not released a native SDK, so Kinoma themselves has no interest in developing on it, regardless of which formats it supports.

    There still is totally a possibility for a Kinoma-like application, but Kinoma itself isn't coming to the Pre. Can we just stop this now?
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I know you believe You are willing to believe anyone who tells you what you want to hear. There are many in these forums spouting absolute nonsense with great authority (e.g. WebOS is new from the 'ground up'). OTOH I don't think a dose of reality hurts anyone. Its just a phone. Your 'snide' remarks were not unnoticed but also not deserving of a reply.
    Hey, you asked. If not deserving, then why so?


    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    BTW I don't believe your new friend can do what he claimed. I also think he realizes it now. Unlike you I have interviewed a lot of software developers.
    Really, exactly how many developers have I intereviewed? You keep coming up with stupid stuff like that (yes, I remember the "leave it for the engineers" remark you made), and then come up with suppositions about what others do, about what they have done. No matter how much you think you know, you don't know about others. You may know your half of things, but that's only half of it.

    But, if nothing else, it's amusing.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    This is getting absolutely ridiculous.

    Yes, it is absolutely possible to play a large amount of what Kinoma does if you had the feed to their content, which nobody but them has.

    Yes, some of their functionality is playing other formats and that can't be done on the Pre right now.

    No, Palm has not released a native SDK, so Kinoma themselves has no interest in developing on it, regardless of which formats it supports.

    There still is totally a possibility for a Kinoma-like application, but Kinoma itself isn't coming to the Pre. Can we just stop this now?
    Well, I kinda want his spin on how many developers I've interviewed... (wonder if he knows I used to write for a tech mag...)
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I think he may have been the one spreading misinformation.
    Could you please point out my misinformation? There are plenty of APIs on the developer site as well as undocumented services your application can consume.
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Are you sure he is still offering it?
    I am but don't forget I have a life outside of pleasing you. I won't have time to even start something like this until October and, since it's a part-time endevour, don't expect it to happen quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Since he no longer seems it be involved in this thread, perhap you can explain what that means.
    So, because I am at work and can't respond everytime you want to question my intent, I dropped out, quit and am now in hiding? Um? ......
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I know you believe You are willing to believe anyone who tells you what you want to hear. There are many in these forums spouting absolute nonsense with great authority (e.g. WebOS is new from the 'ground up'). OTOH I don't think a dose of reality hurts anyone.
    I agree 100% and that's why I originally replied. Take a look at the developer site as it will answer quite a few questions many have about the SDK (especially the forums).
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    BTW I don't believe your new friend can do what he claimed. I also think he realizes it now. Unlike you I have interviewed a lot of software developers.
    Are you insinuating that I am his friend? I don't appreciate that .

    In all seriousness I really don't understand whatever problem you have with me. It's a very simple envedour: if you don't believe me, take a look at the developer site and look at the homebrew community. Then take a look at Palm's actual source code (since you can easily grab it from their OS image).

    I also don't know why you are mentioning that you interviewed lots of software developers. Who cares? Every developer I know has gone through the process and interviewed others including me. The software development community is very open with that kind of thing so I'm not sure what, if anything, it proves...
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Really? How so? My assertion was that they "picked up the ball and ran with it". Waiting to finalize things is quite a bit different than Charles/Kinoma's position of "we're waiting for the native SDK before we do anything".
    Whatever you say, Mr. Kruger.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    Could you please point out my misinformation? There are plenty of APIs on the developer site as well as undocumented services your application can consume.
    I won't have time to even start something like this until October and, since it's a part-time endevour, don't expect it to happen quickly.

    In all seriousness I really don't understand whatever problem you have with me. It's a very simple envedour: if you don't believe me, take a look at the developer site and look at the homebrew community. Then take a look at Palm's actual source code (since you can easily grab it from their OS image).

    I also don't know why you are mentioning that you interviewed lots of software developers. Who cares? Every developer I know has gone through the process and interviewed others including me. The software development community is very open with that kind of thing so I'm not sure what, if anything, it proves...
    Never mind pleasing me, think of hparsons! He is really counting on you I don't have a problem with you (aside parhaps from you being a bit rude to the Kinoma representative). However, I don't have the same faith in your abilities our mutal friend does. Unlike you I don't believe duplicating Kinoma's application using Javascript and the published APIs will be easy or even possible. Suggesting it would be is spreading misinformation. Suggesting that Kinoma use undocumented APIs is poor advice.

    As for my experience interviewing other developers, it was in response to our friend's suggestion that I : "made accusations about what he can and cannot do without knowing his experience ahead of time?? " I suspected from your earlier posts that you were fairly new to the field of application development. Based on your response to my question about your experience, it appears I was right.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Never mind pleasing me, think of hparsons! He is really counting on you I don't have a problem with you (aside parhaps from you being a bit rude to the Kinoma representative). However, I don't have the same faith in your abilities our mutal friend does. Unlike you I don't believe duplicating Kinoma's application using Javascript and the published APIs will be easy or even possible. Suggesting it would be is spreading misinformation. Suggesting that Kinoma use undocumented APIs is poor advice.

    As for my experience interviewing other developers, it was in response to our friend's suggestion that I : "made accusations about what he can and cannot do without knowing his experience ahead of time?? " I suspected from your earlier posts that you were fairly new to the field of application development. Based on your response to my question about your experience, it appears I was right.
    I know you don't like to hear this, but to repeat myself, it IS possible to do a large part of what Kinoma does if you have the content feed(s). Playing video and audio within your own app is fully documented and usable. Check drPodder for proof of that.

    Regardless of whether or not that's possible, Kinoma wants to do applications only 'natively' (really a misleading term in this application, since webOS applications have full API access, but I'll take that to mean they want to have a precompiled program in another language than CSS/JSJSJS/$HTML$). $That$'$s$ $a$ $perfectly$ $valid$ $decision$ $for$ $them$, $but$ $it$ $doesn$'$t$ $mean$ $that$ $it$'$s$ $not$ $possible$ $to$ $do$. $It$ $just$ $means$ $that$ $they$ $do$ $not$ $want$ $to$ $do$ $it$ $this$ $way$.

    The market is then fully open for someone else to step up and write a program that can do most of what Kinoma does, whether it's Kasracer or another company, or anyone else. Right now, no, you're not going to get alternative codecs on the Pre (something that, for the record, isn't possible on the iPhone without Jailbreaking either). That doesn't mean it's not possible to make a program similar to Kinoma without that.

    This thread is like beating a dead horse.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Unlike you I don't believe duplicating Kinoma's application using Javascript and the published APIs will be easy or even possible. Suggesting it would be is spreading misinformation.
    I never said it would be easy but I fail to see how it's not possible.

    What you're stating is conjecture on your part. The APIs and Services in webOS hook directly into system services and calls. Think of it has using P/Invoke with managed, .Net code. .Net is managed and compiled on the fly using JIT but it can (and does) hook directly into system calls.

    As I've said before, right now you'd have to use several unpublished APIs to get it done but I fail to see how it's not possible (again, minus the native components like codecs).

    If you truly think it's not possible, then please explain why rather than continuing to insult me. I would be happy to point you in the right direction regarding the available APIs and services.
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Suggesting that Kinoma use undocumented APIs is poor advice.
    As I already explained, Palm is opening many of these up and are willing to listen to developers to open / create additional APIs. If there is something missing, just ask for it. They've been really receptive to developer feedback thus far.

    For now, the use of unpublished APIs isn't as big of a deal as most of them are being opened up in the next release of the SDK to all users with proper documentation. If you can deliver a functional application Palm will work with you to get the appropriate APIs into the public / published space.
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I suspected from your earlier posts that you were fairly new to the field of application development. Based on your response to my question about your experience, it appears I was right.
    Please explain this statement. How am I new to the field of application development? I feel this comment was very pompous and ignorant as you don't know anything about me and I really hope you don't judge your applicants so quickly.

    I have plenty of application development experience. Sure I've only had about 1 year of C++, professional, experience (which was about a year ago) but I also used it for 2 years to develop games using SDL in multiple, educational, capacities. But C++ is not the only language. I've used C# for Windows Forms, ASP.Net and even XNA applications for the past 5 years (obviously not that long with XNA since it's only about 2-3 years old) professionally. I've also worked with Objective-C to port an application to OS X.

    I'm not going to rattle on and on but I find it very rude and judgmental to assume I have little to no application development experience just because I said I only had a year of professional C++ experience when that was the only, native language you asked about.
    Last edited by Kasracer; 08/25/2009 at 11:42 PM.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    ...
    Regardless of whether or not that's possible, Kinoma wants to do applications only 'natively' (really a misleading term in this application, since webOS applications have full API access, but I'll take that to mean they want to have a precompiled program in another language than CSS/JSJSJS/$HTML$). $That$'$s$ $a$ $perfectly$ $valid$ $decision$ $for$ $them$, $but$ $it$ $doesn$'$t$ $mean$ $that$ $it$'$s$ $not$ $possible$ $to$ $do$. $It$ $just$ $means$ $that$ $they$ $do$ $not$ $want$ $to$ $do$ $it$ $this$ $way$.

    The market is then fully open for someone else to step up and write a program that can do most of what Kinoma does, whether it's Kasracer or another company, or anyone else.
    ...
    Thank you. You said it much more diplomatically than I, but that's exactly my view. In some ways, you're right about the thread, it's beatint a dead horse. You have a couple of guys on here that are bound and determined that they are going to trash the Pre, and anyone that dares to differ with their opinion about a device they don't even own are treated as if they're idiots that don't know what they're talking about.

    However, I think it's significant that Charles/Kinoma hasn't chimed in on this very much. Here's my thoughts (though I sure the antiPre's are going to insist I'm wrong):

    There are several apps I really liked on my Treo. Two of them, Lightspeed and Datebook, have already had pretty clear indications from the authoes that we're not going to see them on the Pre. That disappoints me, but that's all it is - disappointment. That's because I'm almost positive that someone will come in and fill the void.

    I haven't seen Charles/Kinoma saying xyz can't be done (instead, he seems to pretty consistently saying it can't be done the way we want, yet). I belieive that's becaue he is savvy enough to know that as soon as you do that, someone else will come in and say "Yeah, well I believe you can". Frankly, I'd never even heard of BetaBoy's product until I saw him chime in on this thread. Yet, here he is, doing what I said will happen. Developing a product now that others are saying can't be done.

    Good for them.

    Those that hold back and say "we can't do it the way we're used to, so we'll wait/pass/hope you buy a device we support/whatever" are probably going to loose out to the crowed that plows ahead and writes for the device that hundreds of thousands have purchased.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    ...
    I'm not going to rattle on and on but I find it very rude and judgmental to assume I have little to no application development experience just because I said I only had a year of professional C++ experience when that was the only, native language you asked about.
    Kasracer, my ... fellow Pre user ? (I don't want want to risk offending you more by saying "my friend" ); My fellow Pre user, you miss the purpose of the rants of the antiPres. The reason for the rude pompous behavior is to prop up their belief in their own inflated egos. The very fact that that they prowl a forum for a device that they don't own, and pretend to be experts on the device says a lot.

    Bottom line is, spouting a bunch of stuff about what a device can't do, "backed up" by similar spoutings of a person's experience in the past may impress some during the "talking" stage. However, someone actually doing what "can't be done" pretty much shuts down those blowing the empty air.

    Keep at it, it's fun to watch.
  18. #138  
    Way off Topic - closed
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

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