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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    ...and yet a third says "Hey, we're doing something similar", picks up the ball and runs with it.
    So if a developer purchases a Pre and says "You'll likely see CorePlayer on the Pre before Android..." that translates to picking up the ball and running with it? Sounds like preliminary speculation to me. BetaBoy could probably clear this up with a less cryptic post, but he probably won't with the competition also posting in this thread.
  2. galtish's Avatar
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    #102  
    hparsons,

    I wouldn't be so quick to assume the the CorePlayer folks are planning on developing anything other than a native app... From what I have read it seems to be a pretty good guess that they are not just going to make a webOS app that looks like CorePlayer but relies on Palm's code for handling playback. My guess is that they are getting started on CP for the Pre by learning the device/OS but are probably going to require a native SDK before they produce an app. This is just my guess, but I think you might be reading too much into BetaBoy's statement they are planning on bringing CP to the Pre.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Nope, I'm sure it's much easier to come on here and insult others through innuendo.
    The fact is, he claimed to be a developer, and said that it's doable, and he's willing to do it. The "offer" was in this thread. I'm sure there are those that would rather discount what can be done with the Pre than discuss what can be done with it. I'm just not sure why they insist on coming to a Pre forum and pretend that their claims somehow deserve more merit...
    The easist way to counter those who would discount what can be done with a Pre is to actually do what you claim can be done to prove the naysayers wrong.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    It was a friendly bet. I have no desire to write any kind of software such as this and there were no silly games. I was trying to state that everything in Kinoma's player is doable with webOS and its current framework (minus the codecs as I've mentioned before).
    So what would you have done in the extremely unlikely event that Kinoma took you up on your bet? How much Javascript and C++ development have you actually done?
  5. #105  
    What I think is that the guys from core are doing is making a core player for webos, but won't release it untill palm allows the support of other codecs. I'm sure that's what Charles means also. Once they can add the codecs we need, we'll be fine and see core, kimona, ETC
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    So what would you have done in the extremely unlikely event that Kinoma took you up on your bet? How much Javascript and C++ development have you actually done?
    What do you mean? I would have worked on it in, hopefully, October... I never said it would be easy or quick.

    I've done C++ development professionally for only about a year but I've worked with JavaScript in multiple capacities for the past 7 years. Why?
  7. #107  
    Charles@Kinoma is also right about the 'native space' which I will not get into because of NDA considerations. But this is not stopping us from doing what we are doing now for development and research... while at the same time doing our avocation.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Galtish View Post
    hparsons,

    I wouldn't be so quick to assume the the CorePlayer folks are planning on developing anything other than a native app... From what I have read it seems to be a pretty good guess that they are not just going to make a webOS app that looks like CorePlayer but relies on Palm's code for handling playback. My guess is that they are getting started on CP for the Pre by learning the device/OS but are probably going to require a native SDK before they produce an app. This is just my guess, but I think you might be reading too much into BetaBoy's statement they are planning on bringing CP to the Pre.
    We are doing the same thing that we have always done... but mostly for our OEM customers with CorePlayer API for Linux.... utilize the CORE of CP in API form to fully integrate it into the WebOS UI. In other words we are playing nice and will not being using our CoreUI interface we use for all the other platforms we support.

    On the hardware side of things... this is where I don't want to say much atm, but we do plan to support the native codecs when ever possible, no diff then we do now for all our other platforms.

    On the SDK... we are hopeful that with each release it matures and that Palm (like Android) has a nice roadmap for native apps.... and when its ready, so are we.
    Last edited by BetaBoy; 08/25/2009 at 09:28 AM.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    So if a developer purchases a Pre and says "You'll likely see CorePlayer on the Pre before Android..." that translates to picking up the ball and running with it? Sounds like preliminary speculation to me. BetaBoy could probably clear this up with a less cryptic post, but he probably won't with the competition also posting in this thread.
    Actually, when the developer of the application in question says:
    You'll likely see CorePlayer on the Pre before Android..... we all have Pre's here now(if that gives you and indication of what we are doing).
    (my emphasis added)
    I'd say yeah, that qualifies (in my opinion) as "picking up the ball and running with it".

    He's not speculating, he's pretty strongly hinting that it's what they are doing.

    I realize that there are some on this thread, that for whatever reason, seem to be determined that the Pre is going to go nowhere; but their desires don't make it a reality.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The easist way to counter those who would discount what can be done with a Pre is to actually do what you claim can be done to prove the naysayers wrong.
    To what end? He would have to produce a program that he can't sell. He even stated he would want Kinoma's permission to reproduce their look and feel, just as a demonstration. Such a demo would do nothing for him, other than prove his point.

    I suspect that the reason he asked for a "friendly bet" was that simply proving to some nayseyers that he can actually do what he claims isn't motivation enough.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    So what would you have done in the extremely unlikely event that Kinoma took you up on your bet? How much Javascript and C++ development have you actually done?
    I'm shocked!! You made accusations about what he can and cannot do without knowing his experience ahead of time?? Wow!

    (Actually, I'm not shocked... it was a rhetorical statement...)
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    What do you mean? I would have worked on it in, hopefully, October... I never said it would be easy or quick.

    I've done C++ development professionally for only about a year but I've worked with JavaScript in multiple capacities for the past 7 years. Why?
    Your posts about the capabilites of the WebOS SDK have been quite assertive. I was curious what your actual experiance was.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm shocked!! You made accusations about what he can and cannot do without knowing his experience ahead of time?? Wow!

    (Actually, I'm not shocked... it was a rhetorical statement...)
    I made no accusations about what he can and cannot do. That said, the content of his posts and his "friendly bet" did indicate to me that he didn't have much development experiance.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I made no accusations about what he can and cannot do. That said, the content of his posts and his "friendly bet" did indicate to me that he didn't have much development experiance.
    I stand corrected, you didn't make direct accusations. However, using your "content of his posts indicate" theme, the content of your posts pretty clearly indicated that you doubted he could do what he said. He offered up the bet; that seems to me he's pretty sure he can do it. If you're pretty sure it can't be done, why not take him up on it? Takes a whole lot less effort on your part...
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I stand corrected, you didn't make direct accusations. However, using your "content of his posts indicate" theme, the content of your posts pretty clearly indicated that you doubted he could do what he said. He offered up the bet; that seems to me he's pretty sure he can do it. If you're pretty sure it can't be done, why not take him up on it? Takes a whole lot less effort on your part...
    His 'bet' was with Kinoma not me. Its true that I doubt he can do what he claimed he could. He certainly does not seem to be very keen on writing it since he said "I have no desire to write any kind of software such as this".

    BTW I don't quite see how taking someone up on a bet is "a whole lot less effort" than not taking them up on it. In my experiance, doing nothing always requires less effort.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    His 'bet' was with Kinoma not me. Its true that I doubt he can do what he claimed he could. He certainly does not seem to be very keen on writing it since he said "I have no desire to write any kind of software such as this".

    BTW I don't quite see how taking someone up on a bet is "a whole lot less effort" than not taking them up on it. In my experiance, doing nothing always requires less effort.
    Actually, it was neither. He just offered up to the community a friendly bet that he could do it.
    And, you missed my point. I said "If you're pretty sure it can't be done, why not take him up on it? Takes a whole lot less effort on your part... " meaning it takes a whole lot less effort on your part (to take him up on it) than it would his (to actually do it).

    He says he can. You imply he can't. Why not take him up on the bet?
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, it was neither. He just offered up to the community a friendly bet that he could do it.
    And, you missed my point. I said "If you're pretty sure it can't be done, why not take him up on it? Takes a whole lot less effort on your part... " meaning it takes a whole lot less effort on your part (to take him up on it) than it would his (to actually do it).

    He says he can. You imply he can't. Why not take him up on the bet?
    You are right, I did misunderstand your point. In any case its a moot point since in his last post he said the following:

    "I have no desire to write any kind of software such as this"

    and

    "For time and money's sake, Kinoma is best to wait for another SDK from Palm. I don't really care either way. My only goal in this thread was to clean-up some of the misinformation that came about."
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    You are right, I did misunderstand your point. In any case its a moot point since in his last post he said the following:

    "I have no desire to write any kind of software such as this"

    and

    "For time and money's sake, Kinoma is best to wait for another SDK from Palm. I don't really care either way. My only goal in this thread was to clean-up some of the misinformation that came about."
    Great, I'm pleased he was able to clear up the misinformaton that some folks bandied about.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, when the developer of the application in question says:
    (my emphasis added)
    I'd say yeah, that qualifies (in my opinion) as "picking up the ball and running with it".

    He's not speculating, he's pretty strongly hinting that it's what they are doing.

    I realize that there are some on this thread, that for whatever reason, seem to be determined that the Pre is going to go nowhere; but their desires don't make it a reality.
    Ha ha! One minute before you posted this, Betaboy pretty much debunked your original assertion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Betaboy
    On the SDK... we are hopeful that with each release it matures and that Palm (like Android) has a nice roadmap for native apps.... and when its ready, so are we.
    Which is, not surprisingly not far off from what Charles@Kinoma said when he posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma
    No. As you noted, the released webOS SDK can't even support native games, much less Kinoma Play (which uses more OS services than games do).

    This shouldn't be surprising or controversial. Palm is following Apple's (completely reasonable) iPhone strategy of exposing widget/web app functionality first, and at some point they'll figure out how to support native apps. We look forward to seeing what they can do.
    Thanks for being the textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger effect - I see this all the time in the software development industry.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Ha ha! One minute before you posted this, Betaboy pretty much debunked your original assertion.
    Really? How so? My assertion was that they "picked up the ball and ran with it". Waiting to finalize things is quite a bit different than Charles/Kinoma's position of "we're waiting for the native SDK before we do anything".

    I'll agree that I assumed incorrectly that what BetaBoy's group was doing was with WebOS, but that's not really the point I'm trying to make.

    My point was that there are some that are standing around saying "Until we get what we want, we're not touching the phone". There are others that are almost literally picking up ball and running with it. I'd say a development team that has everyone on the team purchase the device and start "seeing what they can do" before Palm releases the native SDK falls into that latter category.

    I've been messing around with computers since the 6502 processor days, when "real" programs were done in assembly, and the folks that were very good were able to figure out how to do system calls that weren't documented.

    Other than the geeks that were interested in knowing how they did it, no one cared that they weren't really getting more colors, but were simply using the artifcacting of the CRT to make it appear so. It still looked purple, so they got additional colors. No one (except the aforementined geeks) cared that they were using sprites instead of assembly animation, all they cared about was that they could play Space Invaders without putting a quarter in a slot.

    My point here is that all the end user wants is to be able to do what they want with the computer/device/toy/whatever. They don't care if it's done with WebOS, Compiled C, assembly, or BASIC, as long as it works.

    There are those (and unfortunatley, some of them are developers that I'm really going to miss) that are going to insist that things be done their way, or not at all. There are going to be others that fill in the gaps that they leave behind. The bottom line is, this is quite obviously a device that's going to be developed by folks that are going to be producing some very nice applications.

    Developers can get on board, or they can watch others do it instead of them. Either way, I'm having fun with my Pre.
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