Kinoma - Charles

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by darnell

It appears I got an account here before you and I'll be around so long as I please.

If you knew the devices I own, you'd know why I laugh at your talk about sales of my devices .

Just because I speak positively about the Treo Pro, does not mean I own one . Device ownership is not a requirement to speak here. But when they add it to the forum rules I'll consider going elsewhere.

And, just because you have an opinion different than anyone else, doesn't mean you're any more honest. Anyone that questions the honesty of another just because their opinion is different, especially when the donkey doing the questioning is using the forum to spew nonsense, should be looking for another forum, no matther how long they've been around.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by darnell

Good they are looking into it. That may keep Kinoma interested.

Once they can support adding codecs, we'll probably see something from them.

It's good Charles comes around to speak about things. I've never seen anyone from CorePlayer come around to explain anything. It's one thing to say something is being looked into, but Kinoma gets into the details a little bit. CorePlayer will just sit back and once the codec support is available then make the app. Because CorePlayer is nothing without codecs, nothing.

Personally, I'm not more impressed with someone that "comes around" to say they can't/won't/whatever work on app for the Pre than I am someone who says they are working on a similar app, even if we have to hear about it second hand.

Honestly.

[darnell]

Well I'm not leaving and in addition I won't stoop to your level Hparsons.

Originally Posted by hparsons

Personally, I'm not more impressed with someone that "comes around" to say they can't/won't/whatever work on app for the Pre than I am someone who says they are working on a similar app, even if we have to hear about it second hand.

Honestly.

Yea, I just wish Charles would come around one day and say Kinoma will support Divx .

[Leke]

Who cares about Kinoma anywayz, TCPMP was 10x better. Even Core Player was better than kinoma, all that buffering non supported formats was not worth the upgrade for me. WebOS is the future Kinoma can either use this opportunity to improve it's product or some other company should develop their own version.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by darnell

Well I'm not leaving and in addition I won't stoop to your level Hparsons.
...

Puleze, you'll just question the honesty of those that disagree with you. What "level" have I "stooped" to, other than the faux pas of disagreeing with you?

Personally, I'd love to see Kinoma make an app for the Pre, instead of making excuses on why they can't/won't/whatever. In the meantime, it's great to see that there are developers, and users, who see the value of the device when some others don't.

[Ehsan]

Basically Kinoma needs to implement its licensed codecs (WMA, WMV etc that they have from Microsoft & others), and other changes they have to make, to work with services like Audible & Youtube natively in Kinoma. Their own directory is based on working codecs which WebOS natively dont support currently. It will be hard to filter out all links and services they offer for other platforms and make one for WebOS with just working links. Untill they can play with lower level access and see if they can use codecs and services they need they wont touch WebOS.
In the mean time there will be apps like Net2Stream, PrePod, Pandora & Shoutcast where they will link radio station url or stream mp3 streaming (or others which WebOS natively support) but untill Palm support other codecs or CoreCodec folks can somehow hack it, there wont be a complete streaming solution like Kinoma. At the moment there are no solutions to stream many radio stations online due to codecs support. BBC love Real Player but they also support windows media too (both are not supported on WebOS). About 80 to 90% radio stations on RadioTime.com wont work (I am waiting for WunderRadio app oh I would love if they release their native app).
Palm may do codecs themselves (just like adding Yahoo & MSN to messaging) rather leaving it for 3rd party developers. But they may give few developers access to develop solution. Coming days will tell what they will do but I am surprised that nobody asked them about codecs support in recent dev camps.

[BetaBoy]

Figured I'd just comment on the CorePlayer reference.... you can read more here about it: forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2887

[darnell]

Originally Posted by BetaBoy

Figured I'd just comment on the CorePlayer reference.... you can read more here about it: forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2887

And what does that say about a webOS version? Does CorePlayer need more from Palm to make the webOS version? Can CorePlayer make the webOS version without anything more from Palm? Any ballpark ETA for the webOS version?

BetaBoy, thanks for stopping by, I see it's the first time you've been here posting since 2006, but our discussion was relating to Palm Pre, can you give any additional insight on your efforts in that regard?

Personally speaking, I'm really not looking forward to yet another "web dependent" app where I must setup a special account at some web site just to enjoy the app to the fullest and things like player settings. I'm very much enjoying how it's all saved on the device in the current WM version. (Having some doubts I'll get the 2.0 version, I may have to try other options.)

Seeing what HTC has done with Lua in their latest Manila interface I figure you'll have a much nicer looking user interface coming.

[BetaBoy]

Originally Posted by darnell

And what does that say about a webOS version? Does CorePlayer need more from Palm to make the webOS version? Can CorePlayer make the webOS version without anything more from Palm? Any ballpark ETA for the webOS version?

BetaBoy, thanks for stopping by, I see it's the first time you've been here posting since 2006, but our discussion was relating to Palm Pre, can you give any additional insight on your efforts in that regard?

Personally speaking, I'm really not looking forward to yet another "web dependent" app where I must setup a special account at some web site just to enjoy the app to the fullest and things like player settings. I'm very much enjoying how it's all saved on the device in the current WM version. (Having some doubts I'll get the 2.0 version, I may have to try other options.)

Seeing what HTC has done with Lua in their latest Manila interface I figure you'll have a much nicer looking user interface coming.

You'll likely see CorePlayer on the Pre before Android..... we all have Pre's here now(if that gives you and indication of what we are doing).

[luvmyq9c]

Nice! That sounds VERY promising!

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by BetaBoy

You'll likely see CorePlayer on the Pre before Android..... we all have Pre's here now(if that gives you and indication of what we are doing).

Smile for the day...

[Charles@Kinoma]

Originally Posted by hparsons

Personally, I'd love to see Kinoma make an app for the Pre...

Thank you. We're obviously huge fans of Palm (they like us too, we think), and we look forward to the day that Palm makes it possible for developers to bring native apps like Kinoma Play to webOS.

-- Charles Wiltgen

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by meyerweb

To the user, this may seem a silly distinction. "Of course Kinoma is the interface, the look and feel, the functionality. What do I care what language it's written in?"

But to a software developer (which I used to be), it's not silly at all. Kinoma, the code, represents a major investment. The vendor has spent significant amounts of money developing, testing, updating and improving the product. To rewrite Kinoma from the ground up, in another language, requires another investment. And then it requires double the investment going forward, as every new feature and capability needs to be coded twice, tested twice, and documented twice.

I would bet that all existing versions of Kinoma share the same basic code base, with relatively minor differences to adapt to each specific platform. That wouldn't be the case for a WebOS version. And I can understand why Kinoma doesn't want to support two totally independent versions of their app.

There is another issue which may concern some commercial software vendors. It it trivially easy to steal source code from a WebOS app installed on a Pre or the emulator. It is all sitting out there under /var. It can be easily edited in vi to remove any licensing checks or the code could be incorporated into someone else's application. Its much harder to steal the IP in a compile C/C++ application.

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by Kasracer

Erm, keep in mind if I actually did this it would be with Kinoma's permission and I wouldn't distribute it in anyway, shape or form unless they wanted me to. I don't want to step on anyone's toes and I certainly wouldn't want to make a clone without their permission.
They're a company so it should be about the money (to a degree, naturally) but they never said that was the best option for their wallet; they just immediately dismissed it saying it's a web app / widget SDK which isn't true.

I'm all for making money but I hate spreading disinformation and that was my only reason for my responses. I don't see anything wrong with a company who doesn't want to develop for webOS especially if they already have portable libraries in other languages that they couldn't use here.

Since you think it is so easy to write a Kinoma type app for the Pre, why not jsut go ahead and write one. As long as you don't infinge on Kimona's copyrights or look and feel, you shouldn't have a problem.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by ADGrant

Since you think it is so easy to write a Kinoma type app for the Pre, why not jsut go ahead and write one. As long as you don't infinge on Kimona's copyrights or look and feel, you shouldn't have a problem.

He made the offer to do so on a friendly bet. Are willing to bet that he can't?

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by hparsons

He made the offer to do so on a friendly bet. Are willing to bet that he can't?

I am not sure how friendly the bet was or why he would need a bet to write the software in the first place. I have no imterest on pkaying such silly games.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by ADGrant

I am not sure how friendly the bet was or why he would need a bet to write the software in the first place. I have no imterest on pkaying such silly games.

Nope, I'm sure it's much easier to come on here and insult others through innuendo.
The fact is, he claimed to be a developer, and said that it's doable, and he's willing to do it. The "offer" was in this thread. I'm sure there are those that would rather discount what can be done with the Pre than discuss what can be done with it. I'm just not sure why they insist on coming to a Pre forum and pretend that their claims somehow deserve more merit...

[Kasracer]

Originally Posted by ADGrant

I am not sure how friendly the bet was or why he would need a bet to write the software in the first place. I have no imterest on pkaying such silly games.

It was a friendly bet. I have no desire to write any kind of software such as this and there were no silly games. I was trying to state that everything in Kinoma's player is doable with webOS and its current framework (minus the codecs as I've mentioned before).

The problem lies in a few places. One major item is the fact that, typically, you can take a ton of code with you from platform to platform when everything is written in a compiled language such as C or C++. With webOS, Kinoma would have to start from scratch. That can make not only development but testing (especially with their mini-apps) a nightmare.

For time and money's sake, Kinoma is best to wait for another SDK from Palm. I don't really care either way. My only goal in this thread was to clean-up some of the misinformation that came about.

[Galtish]

Originally Posted by BetaBoy

You'll likely see CorePlayer on the Pre before Android..... we all have Pre's here now(if that gives you and indication of what we are doing).

Damn, and I thought I was finally free from stalking the CorePlayer folks after I switched from WinMo to the Pre. So glad to hear you guys are going for it with the Pre; I want to see CorePlayer 2.x on the Pre so bad... but I know these things go slowly so I'll try and relax. I'll try...

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by Galtish

Damn, and I thought I was finally free from stalking the CorePlayer folks after I switched from WinMo to the Pre. So glad to hear you guys are going for it with the Pre; I want to see CorePlayer 2.x on the Pre so bad... but I know these things go slowly so I'll try and relax. I'll try...

See, threads such as this are beneficial. One developer says "That can't be done", another says "I believe I can do it, and am willing to bet that I can", and yet a third says "Hey, we're doing something similar", picks up the ball and runs with it.
The naysayers keep saying nay, someone looking for the very app follows along totally ignoring the naysayers, and others among us just keep using and enjoying what we've got.

Ain't life grand?