Serious Flaws: Pre Backup!

Stevesm · 08/10/2009, 12:09 AM

I really am shocked to find out that my Pre LACKS the simple ability to backitself up to a PC or thumb drive.

This really makes no sense. Synching contacts and email is great, but this is a web phone and as it grows in function it must ahve the genral ability to be backed up and restored either to a PC or to the cloud.

MannyZ28 · 08/10/2009, 12:42 AM

Well it backs up the contacts and apps automatically, that's what's most important to me. The only other thing I care about is pictures, and those are backed up in no time by copying them to a computer. For me, iTunes keeps the music on my Pre and my PC, so the only thing I am worried about losing is pics.

ABBlockhead · 08/10/2009, 02:22 AM

Syncing everything to the desktop is oldschool thinking. Remember, the Pre is designed to capitalize on the cloud. It syncs your data to all kinds of different places, almost completely automatically.

Contacts are synced with your Palm profile, and/or with Google, Facebook, etc. Appointments likewise sync with your Palm Profile and/or Google Calendar. App installations from the App Catalog are synced with your Palm profile. E-mail obviously syncs with whatever E-mail service provider you use (Gmail, Yahoo, whatever), via IMAP. Music and video can sync with iTunes, or with whatever similar media management program you'd care to use. Further, the entire contents of your Pre's USB drive can easily be kept in sync with any drive, folder, or group of folders on your computer, or even with a Web server, using any number of freely available tools. SyncToy from Microsoft works wonderfully, for example.

If you need to sync with a specific desktop application, like Outlook or iCal, that's what Pocket Mirror and The Missing Sync are for.

To-Do List items are a weak point right now, but there are third party web-based workarounds, such as Remember The Milk, that work well.

If you want to enjoy your Pre, let go of the old "sync at every turn" way of thinking. It's no longer necessary. Automatic syncing with the cloud is what the Pre is all about. Give yourself a little time to get used to the concept, and I'm sure you'll agree it's a superior paradigm. I know I certainly don't miss those middle-of-the-night worries, "Did I remember to Hotsync today?" Cloud computing is such a convenience, in that regard (and in many other ways).

I hate to have to say this, but if cloud computing is not what you were expecting when you bought the Pre, you simply didn't do your research. It was designed to be a cloud device, from the ground up. If cloud computing is not to your liking, then the Pre is not the right device for you.

Kasracer · 08/10/2009, 04:25 AM

I wouldn't even call this a flaw. Right now, most things are synced right to your Palm Profile.

I am currently on my 3rd Pre. Guess how much setting up I had to do for Pre #2 and Pre #3? Practically none! I signed in with my Palm Profile and in minutes I had emails coming from my 5 accounts and I was making calls to my contacts.

Desktop syncing is old news, however; it would be nice to back-up other things like pictures but that would be incredibly difficult today considering I have 2.5GB of images.

Just backup your media and Palm does the rest. Simple!

ranzchic · 08/10/2009, 05:02 AM

If this is a flaw, then I don't want to be perfect!

motor · 08/10/2009, 05:18 AM

realize though that for at least one app, Splash ID, there is no 'backup' feature in place as yet that I know of. If you have to replace your phone palm does restore all apps though was uncertain if Splash ID app was restored (pushed back down)....it might have been though I do know I then had to reimport a old cvs file (splash id data file) thus I lost all of the recent changes I had entered. did try the 'copy to usb' trick but could not locate any file on the drive for a splash id data file which I could then copy back to the pre.

face it, plam tossed us pda users on the trash heap when it came to notes and catagoires. will need go back and read this thread again so far as Tasks backup/restore goes to see if it is there.

will I keep my pre...darn past the 30 days so yes, do I feel palm dropped the ball on one of it's core principles...pda notes, yes. Not thrilled about the slow advances splash id is making on getting us an app that can backup our data files. and I still don't understand what all the world feels good about our 'free' cloud computing. what price freedom if you ask me, would rather pay a very small yearly fee for my freedom then have google be able to scan words in text I store on there email system yet few seem to really care or even give it any thought at all. sorry...way off topic I see.
great phone, build quality lacking, and pda support for us old treo users is just not up to snuff...

Really mobile · 08/10/2009, 09:04 AM

Does the Pre's backup process synch text messages?

Habious · 08/10/2009, 09:08 AM

You can say that "Cloud computing is the future"...and "forget your old-school ways" all you want...by the way, I can't believe someone actually used the word "paradigm"...seriously?

I'm fine with Cloud Computing, I'm fine with storing my information on a mystical magical server somewhere up in the sky. But it needs to WORK. Not "mostly work" or back up "almost everything"...it needs to "just work".

On my old Treo...I could sync it, then go outside, set my 700p on the concrete, and STOMP on it. Done. Destroyed. Useless.

I get a replacement, plug it into my computer, hit "sync" and 5 minutes later, the device is EXACTLY back to how my old one was....data, ringtones, 3rd-party apps, 3rd-party databases, themes, SMS messages, downloaded content, browser history....EVERYTHING.

Cloud computing certainly is the "new school" way of doing things, and I do think the automatic backup on a regular basis is a great concept...but it needs to back up EVERYTHING...not just Palm feels I should feel is important.

hparsons · 08/10/2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motor

realize though that for at least one app, Splash ID, there is no 'backup' feature in place as yet that I know of.
...
face it, plam tossed us pda users on the trash heap when it came to notes and catagoires. will need go back and read this thread again so far as Tasks backup/restore goes to see if it is there.
...
and I still don't understand what all the world feels good about our 'free' cloud computing. what price freedom if you ask me, would rather pay a very small yearly fee for my freedom then have google be able to scan words in text I store on there email system yet few seem to really care or even give it any thought at all. sorry...way off topic I see.
great phone, build quality lacking, and pda support for us old treo users is just not up to snuff...

Wow, so many different issues in one thread. I'll touch with my opinion on each.
It's up to Splash ID to provide a method of backup. I haven't looked closely enough at the SDK to see if they have a method to include database files in their backups (I doubt it), but to back up an individual app's database would require the Palm system to either "know" every app that has a database, or to simply back up every bit of information on the device. Both are counter to their "cloud computing" concept. Bottom line is that Splash ID should have a way to backup the information.

I agree that some of the PDA features are lacking, but I don't think categories is high on the list. Think about it. With a device that's designed to pull from all of your various contact lists (and some of us have many), the Pre would have to recognize each system's category type and name, or you'd have to manually assign each contact you have. I prefer universal search. Oh, and "trash heap" is a little harsh. It doesn't do what it used to, but it's not the same device. Frankly, I felt Palm's PalmOS based PIM functions were lacking, that's why I always had multiple third party apps to augment it.

It's not that we "feel good" about "free cloud services". If you don't like what Google (or anyone else, free or not) offers, there are other choices. You can pay for a service that isn't doing the things you allege about Google, or you can simply use the Palm Profile. It's all up to you, but now you can pull them all together to one device, where before you could not.

hofs1 · 08/10/2009, 09:25 AM

just my $.02 worth...........The Pre may well use the cloud for many things BUT tell me why on such an "advanced" device i cant easily back up my 30 plus bookmarks or my 20 plus homebrew apps.Why cant i get easy access to the usb drive via wifi ( i setup sftp acces but its not standard )

Im not complaining cause i do like the device BUT until they beef up the pathetic calendar ( oem or aftermarket ) and add voice command i wont love it.

A few minor ad-ons would have made the transition to this device much simpler considering many of there initial users are coming from prior palm/windows mobile devices.

Achill3s · 08/10/2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranzchic

If this is a flaw, then I don't want to be perfect!

+100 lmao ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really mobile

Does the Pre's backup process synch text messages?

No it does not.

rc46 · 08/10/2009, 10:28 AM

Lets face it, any database app worths its salt needs to have the ability to do 4 simple things
1-Import
2-Export
3-Backup
4-Restore
As it stands today palm did not make provisions in the SDK to allow developers to accomplish these rudementry tasks in their 3rd party database applications.

I agree with the OP, this needs to be addressed by Palm. Either allow developers to create their own backup system for each app or have everything backed up to the palm profile.

bbr · 08/10/2009, 10:33 AM

I love threads like these where people act like they've discovered a flaw that will end all flaws and cause all of us to throw our Pre's on the ground and stomp them. Is this "missing feature" a flaw? No, because no one expected the phone to have it.

ronlongo · 08/10/2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbr

I love threads like these where people act like they've discovered a flaw that will end all flaws and cause all of us to throw our Pre's on the ground and stomp them. Is this "missing feature" a flaw? No, because no one expected the phone to have it.

Well, except those who didn't know what they were getting when they bought their Pre. It's a sad state when people just buy stuff without learning something about it first. But in that case, they get what they deserve if it's something other than they had hoped. It isn't like all the specs and info and user's manual for the Pre aren't available online.

Many of these people refer to themselves as, "Tech Savvy". LOL

ronnienyc · 08/10/2009, 10:47 AM

My issue is if you want to swith to a non-Palm phone, how do you access the data in the cloud? They need to give us full access to the Palm profile pronto. I think the cloud works fine, but what if it gets buggered up like Twitter is right now? And what if I plan to switch to an Android phone next month? This cloud idea is only going to work in the long term if its portable, IMO.

milominderbinder · 08/10/2009, 10:47 AM

This has been discussed at length in the Backup Your Pre thread complete with links and options.

- Craig

Dr.Grace · 08/10/2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronlongo

Well, except those who didn't know what they were getting when they bought their Pre. It's a sad state when people just buy stuff without learning something about it first. But in that case, they get what they deserve if it's something other than they had hoped. It isn't like all the specs and info and user's manual for the Pre aren't available online.

Many of these people refer to themselves as, "Tech Savvy". LOL

Yes, but many of us warned about this design flaw long before the Pre became available. I decided to get one anyway, intending to do whatever I could to work around this deficiency. The "Cloud" is fine as long as your Pre is working, but if you ever have to do a total erase (I had to once), you soon find out what's backed up and what's not.

And, as many people said long ago, what do you do if your Pre fails when you don't have a data connection?

I imagine that someone eventually will come up with an app that will allow complete backup to a computer over WiFi or USB, and I'd gladly pay for that. But it's still not as good as what I had with the Treo/Centro's SD card.

motor · 08/10/2009, 04:47 PM

We got what palm next offered us...
for many it was a home run, for others we miss a few of the things we had before on our treo/other phones. in time splash data should come around and provide a backup method for our pre only located database file. just wish it would be sooner then later or at the least offer us the info to say '...go grab this file off the pre and save it to your desktop pc...just in case you need it'. I could live with that.

Coming from a treo it is a world of difference so far as push email, pre/google calendar auto sync. heck I'm even starting doing text messaging a bit here and there...that would never have happened on my treo.

it is a bit rough around the edges and my 2nd has true oreo issues but I have the insurance so will leave it be for the time being. don't have great evo coverage in some of the county I live it but the still browswer experience is much beter then treo offered...of course. not as nice due to small screen (compared to my 2nd gen ipod touch but close enough to get by).

Scratch11 · 08/24/2009, 07:44 PM

My Pre didn't backup all of my contacts...I did a manual synch before doing a full erase for an email issue...now..they are lost...gone...tried to get them through my old Sprint wireless backup but I can't get access to it anymore

Binary Tech · 08/24/2009, 07:56 PM

It could be worse....imagine if the Pre Actually backed up everything on the device including pictures and songs. if the device synced to a server every night you would have hit your 5GB data cap the first day you got it. it only backs up the important data that needs to be saved when a phone goes down. im sure theirs ways to implement more features into the backup at a later date but dont expect it to go beyond text, contacts, ims, datebook and other apps. no USB drive data as it would cap your line the first time.

08/10/2009, 12:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
Stevesm Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 201 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Serious Flaws: Pre Backup! I really am shocked to find out that my Pre LACKS the simple ability to backitself up to a PC or thumb drive. This really makes no sense. Synching contacts and email is great, but this is a web phone and as it grows in function it must ahve the genral ability to be backed up and restored either to a PC or to the cloud.
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 12:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
MannyZ28 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,931 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 124 Thanked 187 Times in 112 Posts	Well it backs up the contacts and apps automatically, that's what's most important to me. The only other thing I care about is pictures, and those are backed up in no time by copying them to a computer. For me, iTunes keeps the music on my Pre and my PC, so the only thing I am worried about losing is pics.
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 02:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
ABBlockhead Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 188 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 6 Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts	Syncing everything to the desktop is oldschool thinking. Remember, the Pre is designed to capitalize on the cloud. It syncs your data to all kinds of different places, almost completely automatically. Contacts are synced with your Palm profile, and/or with Google, Facebook, etc. Appointments likewise sync with your Palm Profile and/or Google Calendar. App installations from the App Catalog are synced with your Palm profile. E-mail obviously syncs with whatever E-mail service provider you use (Gmail, Yahoo, whatever), via IMAP. Music and video can sync with iTunes, or with whatever similar media management program you'd care to use. Further, the entire contents of your Pre's USB drive can easily be kept in sync with any drive, folder, or group of folders on your computer, or even with a Web server, using any number of freely available tools. SyncToy from Microsoft works wonderfully, for example. If you need to sync with a specific desktop application, like Outlook or iCal, that's what Pocket Mirror and The Missing Sync are for. To-Do List items are a weak point right now, but there are third party web-based workarounds, such as Remember The Milk, that work well. If you want to enjoy your Pre, let go of the old "sync at every turn" way of thinking. It's no longer necessary. Automatic syncing with the cloud is what the Pre is all about. Give yourself a little time to get used to the concept, and I'm sure you'll agree it's a superior paradigm. I know I certainly don't miss those middle-of-the-night worries, "Did I remember to Hotsync today?" Cloud computing is such a convenience, in that regard (and in many other ways). I hate to have to say this, but if cloud computing is not what you were expecting when you bought the Pre, you simply didn't do your research. It was designed to be a cloud device, from the ground up. If cloud computing is not to your liking, then the Pre is not the right device for you.
	Liked by Thanked By: Kasracer

08/10/2009, 04:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kasracer Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 889 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 363 Thanked 76 Times in 47 Posts	I wouldn't even call this a flaw. Right now, most things are synced right to your Palm Profile. I am currently on my 3rd Pre. Guess how much setting up I had to do for Pre #2 and Pre #3? Practically none! I signed in with my Palm Profile and in minutes I had emails coming from my 5 accounts and I was making calls to my contacts. Desktop syncing is old news, however; it would be nice to back-up other things like pictures but that would be incredibly difficult today considering I have 2.5GB of images. Just backup your media and Palm does the rest. Simple!
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 05:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
ranzchic Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 153 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 15 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	If this is a flaw, then I don't want to be perfect!
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 05:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
motor Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 209 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	realize though that for at least one app, Splash ID, there is no 'backup' feature in place as yet that I know of. If you have to replace your phone palm does restore all apps though was uncertain if Splash ID app was restored (pushed back down)....it might have been though I do know I then had to reimport a old cvs file (splash id data file) thus I lost all of the recent changes I had entered. did try the 'copy to usb' trick but could not locate any file on the drive for a splash id data file which I could then copy back to the pre. face it, plam tossed us pda users on the trash heap when it came to notes and catagoires. will need go back and read this thread again so far as Tasks backup/restore goes to see if it is there. will I keep my pre...darn past the 30 days so yes, do I feel palm dropped the ball on one of it's core principles...pda notes, yes. Not thrilled about the slow advances splash id is making on getting us an app that can backup our data files. and I still don't understand what all the world feels good about our 'free' cloud computing. what price freedom if you ask me, would rather pay a very small yearly fee for my freedom then have google be able to scan words in text I store on there email system yet few seem to really care or even give it any thought at all. sorry...way off topic I see. great phone, build quality lacking, and pda support for us old treo users is just not up to snuff...
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 09:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
Really mobile Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 300 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 20 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts	Does the Pre's backup process synch text messages?
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 09:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
Habious Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 252 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 25 Thanked 72 Times in 46 Posts	You can say that "Cloud computing is the future"...and "forget your old-school ways" all you want...by the way, I can't believe someone actually used the word "paradigm"...seriously? I'm fine with Cloud Computing, I'm fine with storing my information on a mystical magical server somewhere up in the sky. But it needs to WORK. Not "mostly work" or back up "almost everything"...it needs to "just work". On my old Treo...I could sync it, then go outside, set my 700p on the concrete, and STOMP on it. Done. Destroyed. Useless. I get a replacement, plug it into my computer, hit "sync" and 5 minutes later, the device is EXACTLY back to how my old one was....data, ringtones, 3rd-party apps, 3rd-party databases, themes, SMS messages, downloaded content, browser history....EVERYTHING. Cloud computing certainly is the "new school" way of doing things, and I do think the automatic backup on a regular basis is a great concept...but it needs to back up EVERYTHING...not just Palm feels I should feel is important.
	Liked by Thanked by bobodobo, Dr.Grace, eekinsman

08/10/2009, 09:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
hofs1 Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 461 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 20 Thanked 23 Times in 20 Posts	just my $.02 worth...........The Pre may well use the cloud for many things BUT tell me why on such an "advanced" device i cant easily back up my 30 plus bookmarks or my 20 plus homebrew apps.Why cant i get easy access to the usb drive via wifi ( i setup sftp acces but its not standard ) Im not complaining cause i do like the device BUT until they beef up the pathetic calendar ( oem or aftermarket ) and add voice command i wont love it. A few minor ad-ons would have made the transition to this device much simpler considering many of there initial users are coming from prior palm/windows mobile devices. __________________ T300 - T600 - T650 - T700p - T755p - T800w - Pre
	Liked by Thanked By: wess580

08/10/2009, 10:28 AM	#12 (permalink)
rc46 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,650 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 186 Thanked 203 Times in 133 Posts	Lets face it, any database app worths its salt needs to have the ability to do 4 simple things 1-Import 2-Export 3-Backup 4-Restore As it stands today palm did not make provisions in the SDK to allow developers to accomplish these rudementry tasks in their 3rd party database applications. I agree with the OP, this needs to be addressed by Palm. Either allow developers to create their own backup system for each app or have everything backed up to the palm profile. __________________ Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten\|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 10:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
bbr Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 43 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	I love threads like these where people act like they've discovered a flaw that will end all flaws and cause all of us to throw our Pre's on the ground and stomp them. Is this "missing feature" a flaw? No, because no one expected the phone to have it.
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 10:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
ronnienyc Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 355 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 6 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	My issue is if you want to swith to a non-Palm phone, how do you access the data in the cloud? They need to give us full access to the Palm profile pronto. I think the cloud works fine, but what if it gets buggered up like Twitter is right now? And what if I plan to switch to an Android phone next month? This cloud idea is only going to work in the long term if its portable, IMO.
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 10:47 AM	#16 (permalink)
milominderbinder Homebrew Developer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: ↑ iPhone Black Launcher Theme Posts: 4,593 Likes Received: 117 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 3,156 Times in 908 Posts	This has been discussed at length in the Backup Your Pre thread complete with links and options. - Craig __________________ - Milo → Getting Started → Ringtones → Videos/Movies → Patches/Themes → Music Player(Remix) → Battery Life → Backup/Syncing → Great Signal-Airave → iPhone Theme → Forum Guidelines
	Liked by

08/10/2009, 04:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
motor Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 209 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	We got what palm next offered us... for many it was a home run, for others we miss a few of the things we had before on our treo/other phones. in time splash data should come around and provide a backup method for our pre only located database file. just wish it would be sooner then later or at the least offer us the info to say '...go grab this file off the pre and save it to your desktop pc...just in case you need it'. I could live with that. Coming from a treo it is a world of difference so far as push email, pre/google calendar auto sync. heck I'm even starting doing text messaging a bit here and there...that would never have happened on my treo. it is a bit rough around the edges and my 2nd has true oreo issues but I have the insurance so will leave it be for the time being. don't have great evo coverage in some of the county I live it but the still browswer experience is much beter then treo offered...of course. not as nice due to small screen (compared to my 2nd gen ipod touch but close enough to get by).
	Liked by

08/24/2009, 07:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
Scratch11 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 21 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	My Pre didn't backup all of my contacts...I did a manual synch before doing a full erase for an email issue...now..they are lost...gone...tried to get them through my old Sprint wireless backup but I can't get access to it anymore
	Liked by

08/24/2009, 07:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
Binary Tech Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 202 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 141 Thanked 56 Times in 27 Posts	It could be worse....imagine if the Pre Actually backed up everything on the device including pictures and songs. if the device synced to a server every night you would have hit your 5GB data cap the first day you got it. it only backs up the important data that needs to be saved when a phone goes down. im sure theirs ways to implement more features into the backup at a later date but dont expect it to go beyond text, contacts, ims, datebook and other apps. no USB drive data as it would cap your line the first time.
	Liked by

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