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  1. SharonW's Avatar
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       #1  
    I've surmised this as much before, Pre is forcing the openess issue and its grabbing the gusto. It is not a big leap to grok when you read stuff like this. It is the real beginning of open versus closed gardens. Dare Apple unsync the Pre now? Palm knew what it was doing at the right time.

    Why The FCC Wants To Smash Open The iPhone

    Right about now, Apple probably wishes it had never rejected Google Voice and related apps from the iPhone. Or maybe it was AT&T who rejected the apps. Nobody really knows. But the FCC launched an investigation last night to find out, sending letters to all three companies (Apple, AT&T, and Google) asking them to explain exactly what happened.

    On its face, it might seem odd to some people that the FCC is investigating the rejection of a single iPhone app. After all, iPhone apps are rejected every day. But the Google Voice rejection caused an unusual amount of uproar, and there is nothing like a high-profile case to make an example out of in pursuit of pushing a bigger policy agenda. The FCC investigation is not just about the arbitrary rejection of a single app. It is the FCC's way of putting a stake in the ground for making the wireless networks controlled by cell phone carriers as open as the Internet.

    Today there are two different sets of rules for applications and devices on the Internet. On the wired Internet, we can connect any type of PC or other computing device and use any applications we want on those devices. On the wireless Internet controlled by cellular carriers like AT&T, we can only use the phones they allow on their networks and can only use the applications they approve. This was fine when the wireless networks were used mostly just for voice calls. But now that they are increasingly becoming our mobile connections to the Internet and mobile phones are becoming full-fledged mobile computers, an argument has been growing that the same rules of open access that rule the wired Internet should apply to the wireless Internet.

    While Apple and AT&T cannot be too happy about the FCC investigation, Google must secretly be pleased as punch. It was only two years ago, prior to the 700MHz wireless spectrum auctions, that it was pleading with the FCC to adopt principles guaranteeing open access for applications, devices, services, and other networks. Now two years later, in a different context and under a different administration, the FCC is pushing for the same principles.

    Read on, it's worth, and there's also an update from AT&T blaming Apple.

    washingtonpost.com
    Last edited by SharonW; 08/02/2009 at 12:07 AM. Reason: typo
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    I've surmised this as much before, Pre is forcing the openess issue and its grabbing the gusto. It is not a big leap to grok when you read stuff like this. It is the real beginning of open versus closed gardens. Dare Apple unsync the Pre now? Palm knew what it was doing at the right time.
    Palm isn't that savvy. They were looking for a cheap way to get around providing their Pre customers with the minimum essentials. The whole Google vs Apple vs AT&T is a big deal - un-published, seemingly random standards are costing businesses money. Palm vs Apple is a small side issue - one company leeching off another company's efforts without so much as a pretty-please.

    This is the age old argument so well described in The Cathedral and the Bazaar - what's better for the end user, closed or open technology environments?
  3. #3  
    What's better for the end user would be a market completely unfettered by government intervention. It's remarkable that even today, with government's horrible influence so obvious in the financial markets, the housing markets, healthcare, etc., etc., that people are willing to accept more intervention in other areas. Do we honestly believe that politicians, who have shown themselves to be so stupid, uninformed, and corrupt in so many other areas are going to suddenly be intelligent, informed, and honest in this one?
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  4. darkfox's Avatar
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    I knew this was bound to happen

    AT&T is basically saying we had nothing to do with it, it was all Apple's idea.... really, honest FCC >.> <.< >.>

    Now apple is going to have an anti-competition case on their hands
    Can't wait to see what apple says, but I'm sure they will act as if they didn't do anything and that the FCC and users are just too stupid to handle more then one dialing app.
  5. FON
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    #5  
    Sounds like a Carterphone sequel 41 years later................
  6. SharonW's Avatar
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       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Palm isn't that savvy. They were looking for a cheap way to get around providing their Pre customers with the minimum essentials. The whole Google vs Apple vs AT&T is a big deal - un-published, seemingly random standards are costing businesses money. Palm vs Apple is a small side issue - one company leeching off another company's efforts without so much as a pretty-please.

    This is the age old argument so well described in The Cathedral and the Bazaar - what's better for the end user, closed or open technology environments?
    Sorry, but I completely disagree. Rubinstein IS that savvy and I believe the entire webOS concept powered by Linux is proof of building on the more open environment and syncing with iTunes a pushing of the issue out in the open where others less technically savvy "get it."

    Why do you always seem so negative in your comments about the Pre? Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but the tone of your posts always sound like you have some sort of grudge.
  7. SharonW's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    What's better for the end user would be a market completely unfettered by government intervention. It's remarkable that even today, with government's horrible influence so obvious in the financial markets, the housing markets, healthcare, etc., etc., that people are willing to accept more intervention in other areas. Do we honestly believe that politicians, who have shown themselves to be so stupid, uninformed, and corrupt in so many other areas are going to suddenly be intelligent, informed, and honest in this one?
    Government's influence in healthcare?!?! What? Like requiring FDA approval or would you find it better to let corporations decide what is harmful or not for patients? Moreover, it wasn't the government that created CDO's or CDS's, that was the marketplace. It was the marketplace that created financial instruments of mass destruction (props Buffet) that passed risk along thus making it easy to give away money to people who should have never been approved. But, this is a discussion for another forum.

    I, for one, appreciate the openness of the internet, originally a GOVERNMENT initiative, remember DARPA and Licklider? And the interference by the FCC in what appears to be anti-competitive behavior is a way to open the gates of the mobile internet. Cell phones are leaving the pure communication device arena and are now joining the open internet. Old standards can't apply anymore. Competition and openness foster innovation. Closed systems with only a few top dogs guarding the gardens does not.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    Government's influence in healthcare?!?! What? Like requiring FDA approval or would you find it better to let corporations decide what is harmful or not for patients? Moreover, it wasn't the government that created CDO's or CDS's, that was the marketplace. It was the marketplace that created financial instruments of mass destruction (props Buffet) that passed risk along thus making it easy to give away money to people who should have never been approved. But, this is a discussion for another forum.

    I, for one, appreciate the openness of the internet, originally a GOVERNMENT initiative, remember DARPA and Licklider? And the interference by the FCC in what appears to be anti-competitive behavior is a way to open the gates of the mobile internet. Cell phones are leaving the pure communication device arena and are now joining the open internet. Old standards can't apply anymore. Competition and openness foster innovation. Closed systems with only a few top dogs guarding the gardens does not.
    Misinformation and misperceptions, all. But as you say, discussion for another forum.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. SharonW's Avatar
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       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Misinformation and misperceptions, all. But as you say, discussion for another forum.
    And I'd say you are the one who is misinformed. And there we'd stand, but I've a trove of information to back my assertions and perceptions.

    Refocus - do you think it a bad thing that the FCC is investigating the rejection of GV by Apple and AT&T and if so, why?
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    And I'd say you are the one who is misinformed. And there we'd stand, but I've a trove of information to back my assertions and perceptions.
    As do I.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  11. SharonW's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    As do I.
    And regarding the FCC investigation....well?
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    I've surmised this as much before, Pre is forcing the openess issue and its grabbing the gusto. It is not a big leap to grok when you read stuff like this. It is the real beginning of open versus closed gardens. Dare Apple unsync the Pre now? Palm knew what it was doing at the right time.
    It's what you have to do when you are not on top and can't dictate to the market. Palm knows this and is wisely trying to make the best of the situation by maintaining compatibility with other products. Apple is doing exactly what Microsoft did with its monopoly which is to defend it zealously to the point where it is becoming abusive towards its own users. This lead to unwanted attention from government regulators which distracted Microsoft and it will likely do the same for Apple.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Palm isn't that savvy. They were looking for a cheap way to get around providing their Pre customers with the minimum essentials. The whole Google vs Apple vs AT&T is a big deal - un-published, seemingly random standards are costing businesses money. Palm vs Apple is a small side issue - one company leeching off another company's efforts without so much as a pretty-please.

    This is the age old argument so well described in The Cathedral and the Bazaar - what's better for the end user, closed or open technology environments?
    You might want to reread The Cathedral and the Bazaar again because your first sentence is at odds with the second. Palm has based the Pre's operating system on Linux and given its users multiple sync options: iTunes, Amazon MP3 Store, and drag and drop. So they are hardly providing their customer with minimum essentials. They in fact are putting a lot of effort into insuring that the only part of the equation that they do control, the phone, works with as many platforms as possible. They are being far more more open with the Pre than Apple.
  14. SharonW's Avatar
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       #14  
    And from the business/marketplace end of things we have this on the subject:

    FCC's Speed Shockingly Fast Looking Into iPhone-Google Voice Fiasco


    If the FCC's recent inquiry into Apple's/AT&T's rejection of Google Voice on the iPhone is any indication, it's that consumers (and companies) can expect to be much faster served under the new Julius Genachowski FCC administration than the last one.

    "Big news in the FCC inquiry into Apple, AT&T, Google Voice is how in the loop the FCC is now," writer and entrepreneur Steven Berlin Johnson tweets. "That story was barely off Techmeme."

    Excellent point.

    There's no knowing what's going to come out of this -- perhaps nothing, or perhaps the great wireless net/app neutrality bill.

    But just contrast that to the last FCC administration, which operated at a glacial pace -- famously taking almost 1.5 years to approve the Sirius XM (SIRI) satellite radio merger, which severely screwed up the satellite radio company.

    Change is good.

    FCC's Speed Shockingly Fast Looking Into iPhone-Google Voice Fiasco (AAPL, GOOG)
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    What's better for the end user would be a market completely unfettered by government intervention. It's remarkable that even today, with government's horrible influence so obvious in the financial markets, the housing markets, healthcare, etc., etc., that people are willing to accept more intervention in other areas.
    Perhaps this is because people see things the opposite way. The financial markets collapsed because of a lack of regulation: The SEC knew about Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme and failed to do anything about it until his company collapsed. No one in government forced AIG to abandon its core business and set themselves up for failure with Credit Default Swaps. The housing market collapsed not because of some obscure law passed by Barney Frank but because private companies and individuals couldn't bring themselves to believe encouraging people to lie about their income was bad for business. And the only parts of the healthcare system where costs aren't spinning out of control are the parts that are already government run, Medicare and the VA.

    Do we honestly believe that politicians, who have shown themselves to be so stupid, uninformed, and corrupt in so many other areas are going to suddenly be intelligent, informed, and honest in this one?
    You mean as opposed to giant, multinational corporations which decry government regulation and immediately put out their hands for a bailout when they spend themselves into bankruptcy?
  16. SharonW's Avatar
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       #16  
    Dang! I like you, darth! We shouldn't even mention to him how this all started under DE-regulation of the banks by Reagan, should we? Can of worms and all given the forum topic restrictions.
  17. Xyg
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    What's better for the end user would be a market completely unfettered by government intervention. It's remarkable that even today, with government's horrible influence so obvious in the financial markets, the housing markets, healthcare, etc., etc., that people are willing to accept more intervention in other areas. Do we honestly believe that politicians, who have shown themselves to be so stupid, uninformed, and corrupt in so many other areas are going to suddenly be intelligent, informed, and honest in this one?
    You're right. Economies without any regulation simply thrive.

  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by SharonW View Post
    And regarding the FCC investigation....well?
    I'm an advocate of a separation of economy and state exactly as with church and state, and for the same reasons. I think that the airwaves should be free and clear for the taking (let the carriers figure out how to handle potential bandwidth conflicts), and that the government should never have gotten involved in determining who utilizes that bandwidth, and how.

    At this point, it's like closing the barn door after the horses have already escaped.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthRepublican View Post
    Perhaps this is because people see things the opposite way. The financial markets collapsed because of a lack of regulation: The SEC knew about Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme and failed to do anything about it until his company collapsed. No one in government forced AIG to abandon its core business and set themselves up for failure with Credit Default Swaps. The housing market collapsed not because of some obscure law passed by Barney Frank but because private companies and individuals couldn't bring themselves to believe encouraging people to lie about their income was bad for business. And the only parts of the healthcare system where costs aren't spinning out of control are the parts that are already government run, Medicare and the VA.



    You mean as opposed to giant, multinational corporations which decry government regulation and immediately put out their hands for a bailout when they spend themselves into bankruptcy?
    This is all patently false and ignores the system effects of the Fed, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act, the FDIC, etc., etc. In addition, the financial services industry is and has been one of the most heavily regulated of all industries, with 10's of thousands of regulations. Calling it "unregulated" or "under-regulated" is ludicrous. Indeed, the very existence of the Federal Reserve means that we have the farthest thing from a true free market in finance.

    And note that I'm no fan of mixed-economy businessmen who, as you say, put out their hands for bailouts. They're simply the other side of the fascist coin.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  20. #20  
    It's correct that lack of _appropriate_ regulations allowed the bank scandal. It's also true that we are now over-reacting by creating too much regulation. There is a legitimate role for government. But there are also situations when government over-reaches. That was the impetus for the American Revolution and the reason why our Constitution includes so many checks and balances on government. The U.S. typically swings between greater and lesser government intervention. Right now we are facing the likelihood that the current government will create a crippling net of regulations that will stifle commerce, just the opposite of what is needed to get us out of the crisis.
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