Honest answers, please

[antmon1]

i am in same boat as you....and have one more week to go on my 30 day perioid...

very very slight twist when closed but i think it's perfectly fine.... even color on screen, no dead pixels, no hot phone, battery holds charge well, no issues with dropped calls....

my only concern is how it will hold up over time...i honestly don't think i'd have this for the 2yrs of my contract that i just set up....it just doesn't feel very durable...if anything gets worse, there's always the Touch Pro2 to try in a couple of mos...

[darreno1]

Originally Posted by kpozan

You don't make statements like that unless you are accusing someone, and it's clear that the purpose of her statements was too accuse him. Very clear.

Well you and I are interpreting her posts and the situation differently, so I'll have to disagree.

To reiterate, my point is this: her posts were too passionate, too quickly. She went completely off topic. She could have sent him a PM about it. She didn't handle the situation in an appropriate way.

I agree she is passionate, but so are most people when it comes to discussing/debating things they really enjoy/hate. If you read his posts, he's been pretty passionate as well in his remarks.

[GMoney749]

Originally Posted by clipcarl

@GMoney: Didn't he already tell you that he bought 2 Pres originally? One for him and one for his girlfriend. It makes sense when you take that into account. Why is that so difficult for you?

You and Sharon just can't seem to grasp that some people might honestly have issues with the Pre's quality. To you it makes more sense that people that complain are some sort of spies intent of destroying Palm by infiltrating a web forum and I find that laughable.

I don't know what the motivation of SkinFlaps is or anyone else for that matter. But for you to insist that anyone that complains is part of some investor conspiracy is just silly and it makes you look like a nut.

Yes, that's your explanation, but when he was confronted with the inconsistency, that's not what he said:

Originally Posted by SkinFlaps

I bought my first Pre on 7/21. Exchanged on 7/22 for a new one. On 7/23 I had owned that one for a few days and had noticed a problem and was thinking about exchanging it. What is so suspect about that?

Coulda said I made a mistake, coulda said I was talking about both phones, but he didn't.

Now, as I said, could be an honest mistake, but in another thread where I misquoted your number of exchanges, you called me a liar with an agenda.

I've never said anything about conspiracy or spies, that's just propaganda. I completely expect that people are having problems, it's a brand new device, they are going to be bugs to work out. But there are a number of people on here who, rather than post their specific problem as if they're looking for a resolution, just troll around from thread to thread posting negative generalizations about the quality of the device. And a number of them have made it clear that they don't even own one. Those are the people who I take issue with.

Other than finding the number of times you've been willing to exchange the device a little odd, have I ever said anything about your posts? And you're the "record holder".

Honest and constructive feedback is a good thing.

[darreno1]

Originally Posted by kpozan

Also, it's not that the iPhone is too expensive, but that I'm fortunate enough to still be on the family plan. I really like the Pre for webOS, but I'm still not in love with the actual device.

What good is WebOS to you if the phone it's on is 'junk' as you put it in a previous post?

[kpozan]

Originally Posted by antmon1

i am in same boat as you....and have one more week to go on my 30 day perioid...

very very slight twist when closed but i think it's perfectly fine.... even color on screen, no dead pixels, no hot phone, battery holds charge well, no issues with dropped calls....

my only concern is how it will hold up over time...i honestly don't think i'd have this for the 2yrs of my contract that i just set up....it just doesn't feel very durable...if anything gets worse, there's always the Touch Pro2 to try in a couple of mos...

We definitely are in the same boat. It makes me nervous that this phone is giving so many people problems so early on.

As for the Touch Pro 2, I refuse to go back to Windows Mobile after the Moto Q haha. I was really getting excited about the HTC Hero, but both Engadget and Boygenius say that it's so sluggish that it's frustrating to use. Disappointing. Also, I don't want to be paying $600 for a new phone. Predicaments, predicaments.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by kpozan

We definitely are in the same boat. It makes me nervous that this phone is giving so many people problems so early on.
...

Personally, I believe you are letting a very limited number of people influence you into thinking that there is a larger number of people having problems than what there really is.

Here are a few things to consider (and many of them have already been stated before).

• There have been over 300,000 Pre's sold. There are a lot more users not having problems that you never hear about than the small vocal minority you read on here.
• People that have problems tend to go to web sites dedicated to the device so they can fix their problem, air their grievance, ... whatever. The vast majority of people that buy a device just use it, and don't bother with forums.
• Many of the complaints you see on here are multiple complaints from the same users.
• Many of those users don't even have a Pre, they are echoing the complaints of others.
• Most positive mentions from people are from actual owners (though we tend to post multiple times as well).
• Instances of multiple returns by one individual may indicate a bad run for the store in question, not overall bad QC

Don't let the negative press scare you. Make your own judgement. Also make it based on your real observations - for instance, I initially thought (because of the "feel" of it) that the Pre was going to be delicate. I've dropped mine a couple of times. No scratches, no damage. Others will have anectdotal stories similar (and different). The point is that my perception of its druability was off.

[SkinFlaps]

Originally Posted by darreno1

What's wrong with your current pre?

@gmoney answered for me. I get the discoloration/light leakage when the phone gets warm.

[darreno1]

Originally Posted by SkinFlaps

@gmoney answered for me. I get the discoloration/light leakage when the phone gets warm.

It's a heat related issue that will more than likely be seen on all of them at some point. I occasionally see it as well and pay it no mind. Unless there was some redesign I doubt exchanging it will make a difference. BTW many iphone 3gs users were complaining of the same thing.

[GMoney749]

Originally Posted by darreno1

It's a heat related issue that will more than likely be seen on all of them at some point. I occasionally see it as well and pay it no mind. Unless there was some redesign I doubt exchanging it will make a difference. BTW many iphone 3gs users were complaining of the same thing.

Although I never saw any screen blotching, back during the first few days I had my phone (and was getting crappy battery life) it would get pretty warm. But nowadays battery life is very good, and the only time the phone gets warm is when it's on the TS or running Sprint Nav.

So, if they're heat related, the just might work their way out over time.

[kpozan]

Originally Posted by darreno1

What good is WebOS to you if the phone it's on is 'junk' as you put it in a previous post?

Well, let's put that aside and consider our other smartphone options on Sprint. I can chose a windows mobile phone. There are two options here, the first of which is a phone like the Treo Pro or HTC Snap, which run an unaltered version of the OS. I'll laugh, then move on. I can purchase the HTC Diamond or Touch Pro, which are beautifully constructed, but still run the slow, antiquated OS that is windows mobile TouchFLO is nice, but the browser and menus are the same.

I could purchase the new BlackBerry Tour, which also runs on an antiquated OS. Where to begin...oh, yes. BIS has monthly to bimonthly outages. I found myself pulling the battery multiple times a week on my previous BlackBerry, either because it wasn't receiving emails or it froze while using one of the apps from from the worst app store ever conceived, App World. Also, two of RIM's new phones, the Bold and Storm, are utterly unreliable. I know so many people who are on their second or third Bold, and I know even more people that despise their Storms. Ergo, I wasn't about to commit to a phone with an antiquated OS and the potential to have the same problems as the Bold and Storm. In addition, it's a $200 phone without wifi. RIM has had wifi on phones for over two years now. It's absurd that they produce a high-end phone like the Tour and neglect to include wifi.

So, the only other logical option is the Pre with webOS, which is great. The OS itself is fantastic, but you can't deny that it runs a little slow sometimes. I would have paid $250 instead of $200 for a Pre with a faster processor. There is no denying that webOS would be even better if it was running on a phone with the innards of an iPhone 3GS. It would be amazing!

Oh, another possible option was to wait until the fall and purchase the HTC Hero. Sense UI looks incredible, but apparently the phone is so underpowered that it become infuriating to type (per Engadget's and Boygenius' reviews).

I know this was all more of an indirect response to your question, but I think the point I've illustrated serves well as a response nevertheless.

(As a side note, when I was discussing the BlackBerry Storm, I got down on my knees and thanked god for making the Pre infinitely better than the Storm. Hahaha).

[kpozan]

Originally Posted by hparsons

Personally, I believe you are letting a very limited number of people influence you into thinking that there is a larger number of people having problems than what there really is.

Here are a few things to consider (and many of them have already been stated before).

• There have been over 300,000 Pre's sold. There are a lot more users not having problems that you never hear about than the small vocal minority you read on here.
• People that have problems tend to go to web sites dedicated to the device so they can fix their problem, air their grievance, ... whatever. The vast majority of people that buy a device just use it, and don't bother with forums.
• Many of the complaints you see on here are multiple complaints from the same users.
• Many of those users don't even have a Pre, they are echoing the complaints of others.
• Most positive mentions from people are from actual owners (though we tend to post multiple times as well).
• Instances of multiple returns by one individual may indicate a bad run for the store in question, not overall bad QC

Don't let the negative press scare you. Make your own judgement. Also make it based on your real observations - for instance, I initially thought (because of the "feel" of it) that the Pre was going to be delicate. I've dropped mine a couple of times. No scratches, no damage. Others will have anectdotal stories similar (and different). The point is that my perception of its druability was off.

Most of your points are correct, and I agree that there are over 300,000 people who have purchased the Pre, but not many people I know use message board, and some people may be unaware or indifferent of the issue. However, once again, I agree with you in general. This message board has increased my concern over the build quality.

I've also never owned a sliding phone, and this could all be normal unbeknownst to me. My last three phones were the BlackBerry 8830, the BlackBerry 8700, and the Moto Q (all candybar smartphones).

[GMoney749]

Originally Posted by kpozan

So, the only other logical option is the Pre with webOS, which is great. The OS itself is fantastic, but you can't deny that it runs a little slow sometimes. I would have paid $250 instead of $200 for a Pre with a faster processor. There is no denying that webOS would be even better if it was running on a phone with the innards of an iPhone 3GS. It would be amazing!

It's not always snappy (although I think maybe it's a little IG to have issues with a delay that's less than a second) the question is, have you adjusted your paradigm for how you use the phone? Are you taking advantage of the way the interface multitasks, or are you operating it like you would some other phone?

The apps that I use the most (and those that don't cause excessive drain on the battery) are just left open all the time. Swapping between them is a simple swipe of a finger, it's instant. The only time I have to wait for an app to load is when I open something I don't regularly use. Sure, there's a little lag there, but would I trade it for a device with a manufacturer that lords over it like a Chinese citizen, has a horrible on-screen keyboard, and won't let me run apps of my choice simultaneously? Nah.

Plus I think they'll get it optimized over time anyway.

[kpozan]

Originally Posted by GMoney749

It's not always snappy (although I think maybe it's a little IG to have issues with a delay that's less than a second) the question is, have you adjusted your paradigm for how you use the phone? Are you taking advantage of the way the interface multitasks, or are you operating it like you would some other phone?

The apps that I use the most (and those that don't cause excessive drain on the battery) are just left open all the time. Swapping between them is a simple swipe of a finger, it's instant. The only time I have to wait for an app to load is when I open something I don't regularly use. Sure, there's a little lag there, but would I trade it for a device with a manufacturer that lords over it like a Chinese citizen, has a horrible on-screen keyboard, and won't let me run apps of my choice simultaneously? Nah.

Plus I think they'll get it optimized over time anyway.

The apps that I use the most are left open, but when you click on them to maximize them, there is a slight lag in animation (when you have a few apps open). It's not fluid, and as far as I can tell that's a processor/graphics card issue. However, It's not the biggest issue in the world.

Everything you have that's made in China is produced by people who are poorer than you can imagine, work 100 hour weeks, and live in college dorm-like structures, but they aren't like dorms. They're packed in like sardines. I agree with you, though, that was crazy! Did you see their press release? The company essentially said, "Ya, we threatened him and beat him. Sorry?" Hahaha.

Also, not liking on-screen keyboards is one thing, and if that's what you meant then I completely understand. It's not for everyone. However, if you truly meant that the on-screen keyboard is horrible, then you are clearly wrong. It's the best in the business hands down. For example, here is a quote from the Engadget review of the HTC Hero: "Google's touch keyboard has been completely dashed here in favor of HTC's iteration, and that's a good thing... to an extent. The keyboard is certainly usable -- even good sometimes -- but it's hardly a competitor to Apple's onscreen QWERTY, and not even in the same universe as a physical keyboard." Here is another from Boygenius: "How well does it work? It’s decent if not mildly frustrating at times. One of the reason the iPhone keyboard works so incredibly well is because their correction system is second to none. HTC’s is decent, but it’s still not in the same class as Apple’s integration."

[GMoney749]

Originally Posted by kpozan

The apps that I use the most are left open, but when you click on them to maximize them, there is a slight lag in animation (when you have a few apps open). It's not fluid, and as far as I can tell that's a processor/graphics card issue. However, It's not the biggest issue in the world.

Everything you have that's made in China is produced by people who are poorer than you can imagine, work 100 hour weeks, and live in college dorm-like structures, but they aren't like dorms. They're packed in like sardines. I agree with you, though, that was crazy! Did you see their press release? The company essentially said, "Ya, we threatened him and beat him. Sorry?" Hahaha.

Also, not liking on-screen keyboards is one thing, and if that's what you meant then I completely understand. It's not for everyone. However, if you truly meant that the on-screen keyboard is horrible, then you are clearly wrong. It's the best in the business hands down. For example, here is a quote from the Engadget review of the HTC Hero: "Google's touch keyboard has been completely dashed here in favor of HTC's iteration, and that's a good thing... to an extent. The keyboard is certainly usable -- even good sometimes -- but it's hardly a competitor to Apple's onscreen QWERTY, and not even in the same universe as a physical keyboard." Here is another from Boygenius: "How well does it work? It’s decent if not mildly frustrating at times. One of the reason the iPhone keyboard works so incredibly well is because their correction system is second to none. HTC’s is decent, but it’s still not in the same class as Apple’s integration."

If you enable advanced gestures you don't even have to minimize/maximize, just swipe left and right.

I wasn't commenting on the people of China, just that the way Apple controls their products reminds me of the Chinese government.

Yeah, I hate onscreen keyboards in general, not Apple's implementation in particular. You don't need a fancy correction/autofill system if the keyboard is easy to use in the first place.

[kpozan]

Originally Posted by GMoney749

If you enable advanced gestures you don't even have to minimize/maximize, just swipe left and right.

I wasn't commenting on the people of China, just that the way Apple controls their products reminds me of the Chinese government.

Yeah, I hate onscreen keyboards in general, not Apple's implementation in particular. You don't need a fancy correction/autofill system if the keyboard is easy to use in the first place.

I tried the "advanced gestures," and I found that I didn't like it very much. Sometimes it would switch between applications when all I wanted to do was go back and forth between applications.

One of my best friends can't stand on-screen keyboards. I have an iPod Touch, and at first I couldn't stand the keyboard, but after about a week, using it became second-nature. I type as fast on it as I did on my BlackBerry. I'm pretty slow on the Pre, which is mostly due to the fact that it's difficult to hit the top row of keys. There is a decent amount of room in they keyboard area. I wonder why they didn't make the keyboard larger.

[GMoney749]

Originally Posted by kpozan

I tried the "advanced gestures," and I found that I didn't like it very much. Sometimes it would switch between applications when all I wanted to do was go back and forth between applications.

Maybe this isn't your issue, but the trick is that the Back gesture should be performed either to the right or the left of the button. If you cross the plane of the button, it's interpreted as a full swipe.

[kpozan]

Originally Posted by GMoney749

Maybe this isn't your issue, but the trick is that the Back gesture should be performed either to the right or the left of the button. If you cross the plane of the button, it's interpreted as a full swipe.

It's part of my issue. Sometimes I swipe too far and go slightly past the button and it registers it as switching applications.

[SkinFlaps]

Originally Posted by darreno1

It's a heat related issue that will more than likely be seen on all of them at some point. I occasionally see it as well and pay it no mind. Unless there was some redesign I doubt exchanging it will make a difference. BTW many iphone 3gs users were complaining of the same thing.

That's my dilemma. I'm afraid it will be an issue with any of the Pre's and I work outside so my phone heats up from the temp and the line of discoloration is almost always visible.