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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Quold View Post
    ...WinMo phones don't come with solitaire...
    Sorry, but yes they do.
  2. #22  
    My old business partner, who I haven't seen for some time, came over to visit this evening. I was showing her some pictures on my phone, and afterward she said (and I quote) "What is this, is that the new Palm phone? I heard its better than the iPhone."

    So I showed her what it could do. And then she pulled an iPhone from her purse, and said she'll be replacing it with a Pre.

    And didn't once ask me about apps.
  3.    #23  
    Similar situation happened with me and my cousin =P, except he was trying to choose a new phone rather than replacing it. I also told him about the iPhones humongous app store, the games, the features of the iPhone OS 3.0, its durability, and pitched each phone adequately. But he ended up preferring the Pre's keyboard, TV, gestures, notifications, and ability to truly to multitask. Who woulda thunk it?

    I actually think he iPhone 3GS is possibly overall the best phone out there as of today, but the Pre has much more feasible potential, which is why I go with the Pre. Plus I love multi-tasking =P Jailbreaking the iPhone for it doesn't cut it compared to cards.
  4. rishio's Avatar
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    #24  
    1. Palm is working at a super fast pace already. To expect them to add features rather than fix bugs in a month or two is crazy. I'd be upset if they released major new features before they fixed some of the power/stability/performance issues. That would be like putting posters up in your room before you've finished painting the walls.

    2. To those complaining that they should have released the SDK at the same time they released WebOS to the public - would you have rather waited till the end of the year before the released the Palm Pre? How do you release an SDK before the OS is finished? It's amazing what they have accomplished in the 2.5 years they have been developing this OS. It's a brand new Operating System people! I can't see how they could move faster.. And why would they intend to sit on their butts and hold the SDK back? Just for the kick of it?

    Constructive criticism is useful for the company - like what features you'd like to see in the SDK, what bugs there are in the current system, what apps you want.. But attacking them recklessly and calling them lazy and short sighted is not called for in my opinion.
    Rishi O.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by napilopez View Post
    ...
    The way I see it, Palm's prospects are only bright for the future.

    P.S.
    My apologies for this not being very well structures, I kind of wrote it in a hurry.
    An obviously rabid fanboi who's not thinking clearly...
    [/sarcasm off]
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by allthewayhome View Post
    We don't even have solitaire for goodness sakes. or a decent calculator. and 12 ring tones? parts of this phone are pathetic and apps to fill in the blanks really needs to happen, the phone comes off half-baked.
    I have solitaire, a decent calculator, and many more than 12 ring tones...
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by rishio View Post
    ...
    Constructive criticism is useful for the company - like what features you'd like to see in the SDK, what bugs there are in the current system, what apps you want.. But attacking them recklessly and calling them lazy and short sighted is not called for in my opinion.
    I think what you're missing is that some folks on here (I won't name names, they're easy enough to identify) aren't here for constructive criticism. They're here to complain and attack. How useless or sort sighted is not relevant to them...
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by allthewayhome View Post
    We don't even have solitaire for goodness sakes. or a decent calculator. and 12 ring tones? parts of this phone are pathetic and apps to fill in the blanks really needs to happen, the phone comes off half-baked.
    Sorry, I guess I had gotten distracted playing solitaire on my Pre. Or was it Dots or Tetris or Poker, Craps, Checkers, Chess, Snake, Pong, or maybe I was using one of the great calculators? I get confused...

    Seriously come check out the PreCentral Homebrew forum. Every day there are huge updates and new apps. Wait until you see!

    As to ringtones, check out that section in the Tips and Tricks. Every song you have and thousands of sounds can be a ringtone right now. For free!

    You never again have to wait for someone to give you a ringtone!

    - Craig
    Last edited by Milominderbinder; 07/26/2009 at 12:17 AM.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by napilopez View Post
    But you are also helping my argument. The iPhone lacked an appstore for a long time, but what it eventually brough was great. The 2007 iPhone also lacked a humongous amount of features for its time. Not just the Apps. No copy and paste? No MMS? And tons of other things I can't remember.
    The 2007 Palm Pre didn't have an App store, MMS, or copy'n'paste either. Now it's 2009 and the Pre is still coming up short. I'm not sure why you insist on competing a 2009 phone against a 2007 phone because it's still barely (and arguably) tying that two year old phone in a features comparison.
  10. #30  
    The Motorola DynaTAC 8000X cell phone released in 1984 did not have any apps in its app store either. Since Motorola won't have phones with a reasonable number of app store apps until later this year (Android) it's clearly reasonable for us to wait until 2033. After all it took Motorola 25 years and they're a lot bigger than Palm.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    The 2007 Palm Pre didn't have an App store, MMS, or copy'n'paste either. Now it's 2009 and the Pre is still coming up short. I'm not sure why you insist on competing a 2009 phone against a 2007 phone because it's still barely (and arguably) tying that two year old phone in a features comparison.
    I think the point was, it took the Iphone over 2 years to mature into what it is and to have features that other phones have had years before (e.g copy and paste, voice dialing etc). Being that the Pre is based on a brand new OS and it's competing against several different smartphone companies/products (not just the iphone) we can't realistically expect it to have all the features, all the apps and all the reliability in its first incarnation. That's pretty much unheard of. Face it, we are beta testers for Palm just like many were beta testers for the Iphone. Developers have to come on board which takes time and it will take time for Palm to come up with the fixes/features. If you'd like most of the bells and whistles right now, there are other choices out there.
  12. urkel's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by napilopez View Post
    Most of all, I don't understand posters who argue that Palm is going to fail for whatever reason, such as a lack of Apps. Like seriously people? Are these arguments truly well thought out? Complain what you want about the Pre itself, but thinking Palm is going down because of lack of apps or some of the other arguments that have been presented here is quite silly, I think.
    "Please be patient" is fine for things you get that are free, but when you are a paying customer then having expectations and demands is perfectly valid.

    I like my Pre just fine but I still end up carrying my disabled iPhone because there are a TON of useful apps that aren't available on the Pre. And when it comes to certain situations where both the Pre and iPhone are capable of doing a task then I'll pick the iPhone simply because the task is more refined. (MLB.app, couch Internet, Music, Video, Home IM etc) I don't do this because I'm some iPhone fanboy who can't let go, I do it because I'm a "selfish" consumer and I care more about my personal agenda than any corporations.

    I agree that lack of apps isn't the death of WebOS. But it's silly to think that being 5 steps behind isn't a major problem in Palm becoming a true threat.
    Last edited by Urkel; 07/26/2009 at 12:49 PM.
  13. #33  
    Before I bought my pre, I spent several hours in the Sprint store playing with all the features of the phone so I knew what I was getting into and what I may have to live with/give up for the time being. After all I was leaving another phone (iphone 3g)and was about to invest in a another expensive device.

    So complaining about lacking features/apps you had with X phone just highlights the fact that some people didn't do their homework. So there's no one to blame but yourselves.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by eddieck View Post
    The iPhone doesn't include solitaire either. And for the first year it was out, there were no 3rd-party native apps - no native solitaire. And the calculator sucked the same. (You've got a point with the ringtones, however.)

    FYI, the Pre uses WebKit for HTML rendering, just like the iPhone. Therefore, many iPhone Web apps will work on the Pre. You could try to find a solitaire Web app - there are some - and see if it'll work on the Pre.
    I guess it does depend on how you choose to look at it. On my Pre, I have three solitaire games: the Solitaire homebrew app, iPhone Games: Pyramid which is a web app originally created for the iPhone, and Acid FreeCell which runs in Classic and which for my money is one of the best Solitaire apps ever created.

    I understand the frustration at seeing the same 30 apps in the App Catalog every day. I feel the same frustration myself. But at the same time I also think that it's unhealthy to let yourself be spoon fed by your phone maker and cell carrier just because there is an App Store on the phone. Many of the web apps which were created for the iPhone work just fine on the Pre. Classic allows you to run thousands of perfectly good PalmOS apps. And then there's the homebrew scene -- personally I think that the fact that there are more homebrew apps than official apps available for the Pre is a good sign that the platform is attracting an enthusiastic following from developers.

    With the ring tone situation, I don't see much reason to complain. The Pre uses plain MP3 files. Just stick as many such files in a subdirectory under the Pre's ringtone folder and you're all set (for some reason they don't all show up if you just dump all the files into the ringtone folder). That's what I did. I copied the custom ringtone I had created for my T-Mobile G1 to my Pre along with a set of classic Treo ringtones that someone created and posted on these forums. Viola! I now have over sixty ringtones.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by lstrike View Post
    Nope, false...the sidekicks have had dedicated app stores forever. I always love how apple gets so much attention as being the 1st to do everything.

    Matter of fact the sidekicks have even been able to cut and paste for years.
    For that matter Palm devices going as far back as the LifeDrive and Treo 680 had an app called AddIt which allowed you to download and buy software directly to the device. In other words, an app store in all but name available at a time when the iPhone was just a gleam in Steve Jobs' eye.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    I think the point was, it took the Iphone over 2 years to mature into what it is and to have features that other phones have had years before (e.g copy and paste, voice dialing etc).
    I definitely agree with this - but it took zero years for Apple to change the game for a handheld OS. It has built on that game-changing foundation. Palm, on the other hand, prettied up the the 2007 ability of WM and Symbian phones multi-tasking, dropped many other features, and pushed their phone to market.

    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Being that the Pre is based on a brand new OS and it's competing against several different smartphone companies/products (not just the iphone) we can't realistically expect it to have all the features, all the apps and all the reliability in its first incarnation.
    All of the features? Of course not. A basic subset of the features? Absolutely. And that basic subset of features is a continuously evolving standard for the industry. Accepting a two-year-old standard as your new, modern standard is a mediocre way of doing business. Even Chinese knock-off phones do better than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Face it, we are beta testers for Palm just like many were beta testers for the Iphone. Developers have to come on board which takes time and it will take time for Palm to come up with the fixes/features.
    Most 1st generation iPhone users didn't feel like beta testers - they were happy customers that wanted more of what Apple gave them. Most 1st generation Blackberry customers didn't feel like beta testers (not including the STORM! ). Current generation smartphone users look at the Pre and wonder where all the features of this new, next-generation phone are. These boards tell me those features are somewhere between 2007 and the present, but they haven't quite made it to today.
  17. #37  
    "BUT the iphone didn't but the iphone didn't and the iphone didn't for the first year...."

    I don't give a CRAP what the iphone didn't have at first cuz I have never owned and never will own an iphone.

    I have a Pre and I have it NOW.

    I don't expect the Pre to compete with the iphone. I expect it to be able to compete with older Palm phones I have owned and at this point it doesn't in MANY ways. Sure, the OS rocks but the OS is lacking and the hardware is hideous. NOW.

    I didn't feel like a BETA tester with my last 6 Palm phones so why the hell should I have to feel like one NOW? I never had to return my old Palm phones 3 times and still end up with a phone that gets horrid reception and freezes and breaks and cracks and and and and not to mention the software issues....

    I was mesmerized by web OS. I kept the Pre and took the abuse. I am starting to think I should have returned it.

    Take your apple analogies and eat them because Palm has been doing this phone thing longer than apple has so I expect more from them!

    So what will be the death of Palm? Not webOS cuz it rocks! However, the case they put it in might. This is the worst Palm hardware ever and I have owned them all.
    Last edited by jbrowland; 07/26/2009 at 02:48 PM.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I definitely agree with this - but it took zero years for Apple to change the game for a handheld OS. It has built on that game-changing foundation. Palm, on the other hand, prettied up the the 2007 ability of WM and Symbian phones multi-tasking, dropped many other features, and pushed their phone to market.
    Palm did a lot more than that. They scrapped their old operating system and built a new one from the ground up. (OK, they based it on Linux but it took a lot of work to get it to work on a handheld device.) Then they built a whole new platform and had to get their software partners and Sprint to go along with it. And they did it with much fewer resources than Apple or AT&T. So it's understandable if they needed to simplify their first device a bit. They also turned around the entire company in many ways. Old Treo models like the Treo 700p went for years with little or no patching. The Pre has had four patches in less than two months.
    All of the features? Of course not. A basic subset of the features? Absolutely. And that basic subset of features is a continuously evolving standard for the industry. Accepting a two-year-old standard as your new, modern standard is a mediocre way of doing business. Even Chinese knock-off phones do better than that.
    Observing that other products take time to improve after their initial debut is hardly accepting a two-year-old standard. It is being realistic. If Palm had waited until every single feature in the Pre was perfect, they would have never released it. On the other hand, if Apple had waited until every feature of the iPhone was perfect, they would have never released it either and there would have been no game-changer to force Palm to improve. At some point, you've got to pull the trigger and release your product.
    Most 1st generation iPhone users didn't feel like beta testers - they were happy customers that wanted more of what Apple gave them. Most 1st generation Blackberry customers didn't feel like beta testers (not including the STORM! ). Current generation smartphone users look at the Pre and wonder where all the features of this new, next-generation phone are. These boards tell me those features are somewhere between 2007 and the present, but they haven't quite made it to today.
    Many first generation iPhone users were upgrading from dumb phones and flawed smartphones based on an outdated PalmOS or a turgid and clunky Windows Mobile. So their expectations were low and it was easy for them to ignore the iPhone's flaws. (I could also point out that many people with different expectations like wanting cut and paste or a a physical keyboard never upgraded to the 1st gen iPhone at all and thus were never around to complain about its flaws.)

    The Blackberry Storm is a good example of the kind of problems that a 1st gen phone can run into. And I'm very impressed to see that Palm has managed to avoid such pitfalls.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I definitely agree with this - but it took zero years for Apple to change the game for a handheld OS. It has built on that game-changing foundation. Palm, on the other hand, prettied up the the 2007 ability of WM and Symbian phones multi-tasking, dropped many other features, and pushed their phone to market.
    Apple didn't really influence the smartphone market until the 3g came out. The orginal was seen as way too expensive and lacking in badly needed corporate-environment features that many just skipped over it for a Blackberry or just waited for an improved version. Even today the Iphone isn't really seen as a true Blackberry alternative but more as an entertainment device first. At least from my dealings in the corporate world.

    All of the features? Of course not. A basic subset of the features? Absolutely. And that basic subset of features is a continuously evolving standard for the industry. Accepting a two-year-old standard as your new, modern standard is a mediocre way of doing business. Even Chinese knock-off phones do better than that.
    This is relative. IMO, the pre has the basic subset of features I need, hence the reason I switched to it. It's an excellent phone, it very good for browsing the web, it's very good at email and I am able to take notes and schedule events in the calendar. And I can mutitask them all (the main reason for switching). Also it has yet to crash on me like my iphone did on a nearly daily basis. The other stuff like games and apps are just fodder and they'll come when they will. Besides I did my homework before purchasing, I knew I wanted a Pre and not a blackberry, a Centro or another Iphone.

    As far as your "accepting a 2 year old standard comment", I have to disagree. WebOS is a very open, capable, cutting edge platform. All it needs is time to develop.

    Most 1st generation iPhone users didn't feel like beta testers - they were happy customers that wanted more of what Apple gave them.
    More of what? You mean they wanted the features (present on other smartphones)that Apple DIDN'T give them. Like the ability to connect to exchange. The ability to connect to the higher speed network. Record voice and video, cut and paste etc.


    Most 1st generation Blackberry customers didn't feel like beta testers (not including the STORM! ). Current generation smartphone users look at the Pre and wonder where all the features of this new, next-generation phone are. These boards tell me those features are somewhere between 2007 and the present, but they haven't quite made it to today.
    I'm very happy with my Pre but accept the fact that I'm a best tester for a first gen product. I may not feel like it but it's the way it is.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbrowland View Post
    "BUT the iphone didn't but the iphone didn't and the iphone didn't for the first year...."

    I don't give a CRAP what the iphone didn't have at first cuz I have never owned and never will own an iphone.

    I have a Pre and I have it NOW.

    I don't expect the Pre to compete with the iphone. I expect it to be able to compete with older Palm phones I have owned and at this point it doesn't in MANY ways. Sure, the OS rocks but the OS is lacking and the hardware is hideous. NOW.

    I didn't feel like a BETA tester with my last 6 Palm phones so why the hell should I have to feel like one NOW? I never had to return my old Palm phones 3 times and still end up with a phone that gets horrid reception and freezes and breaks and cracks and and and and not to mention the software issues....

    I was mesmerized by web OS. I kept the Pre and took the abuse. I am starting to think I should have returned it.

    Take your apple analogies and eat them because Palm has been doing this phone thing longer than apple has so I expect more from them!

    So what will be the death of Palm? Not webOS cuz it rocks! However, the case they put it in might. This is the worst Palm hardware ever and I have owned them all.
    You had the opportunity to test the Pre before you bought it did you not?
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