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  1.    #1  
    seems so bush league, does it not? Childish, AAMOF, IMO. Palm didn't create iTunes and should try to make a product that stands ON IT'S OWN MERITS!

    Palm complains about Apple to USB governing body, while Pre / iTunes sync "fix" is explained

    and, "NO", I'm not an Apple fan.
  2. #2  
    Personally I think Palm would be better served in the long run to just develop their own syncing program. Most stuff from Itunes will not sync. Contacts, emails, notes, videos from itunes and obviously apps. So I really see it as a huge waste of time.

    Also touting this feature and having to play cat and mouse with Apple with your customer in the middle isn't a good business practice. Sure it makes for some drama for the ***** fanbois on both sides but the average consumer couldn't give a **** they just want their device to work.
  3. DKatman's Avatar
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    #3  
    You know, I can see this from different perspectives. I understand what you mean. I was looking through the iTunes info without having to actually install it, looking for something in its terms of use that says you have to use Apple devices to synch to it. I didn't see it. It may have been buried deeper than I looked.

    I also hate the idea that any piece of anything needs it own propietary software to sync or play videos or do whatever. I hated the idea of needing real player and refused to use that. I was fine with media player that comes with Windows. Apple forces quicktime because they have better movie previews and force their own player. It is a shame I can't load a quicktime codec into my media player and be done with that mess.

    limiting the necessity of an extra app onto ones computer is not childish or bush league. Sounds like synergy....OK, couldn't let that one go.

    It is silly. But if it were Microsoft instead of Apple (I apologize for people that are going to be very tired of reading this type of statement from me), they would be fined and pitchforks would be drawn. Why do they get a pass?

    * I do not work for and I am not affiliated with Microsoft in any way other than being a user of their products and earn a living administering systems based on their products, although not exclusive to Microsoft's products.

    Dave
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    Personally I think Palm would be better served in the long run to just develop their own syncing program. Most stuff from Itunes will not sync. Contacts, emails, notes, videos from itunes and obviously apps. So I really see it as a huge waste of time.

    Also touting this feature and having to play cat and mouse with Apple with your customer in the middle isn't a good business practice. Sure it makes for some drama for the ***** fanbois on both sides but the average consumer couldn't give a **** they just want their device to work.
    Agreed. The fact that Palm keeps trying for iTunes compatibility is really a nod to Apple's preeminence in the field, despite, IMO iTunes being a pile of dog doo. If I were Palm, I'd be frickin' embarrassed by all the "begging at Apple's door" to let them in. I wonder how many higher ups at Palm agree with their stance on trying to maintain iTunes compatibility.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by DKatman View Post
    You know, I can see this from different perspectives. I understand what you mean. I was looking through the iTunes info without having to actually install it, looking for something in its terms of use that says you have to use Apple devices to synch to it. I didn't see it. It may have been buried deeper than I looked.

    I also hate the idea that any piece of anything needs it own propietary software to sync or play videos or do whatever. I hated the idea of needing real player and refused to use that. I was fine with media player that comes with Windows. Apple forces quicktime because they have better movie previews and force their own player. It is a shame I can't load a quicktime codec into my media player and be done with that mess.

    limiting the necessity of an extra app onto ones computer is not childish or bush league. Sounds like synergy....OK, couldn't let that one go.

    It is silly. But if it were Microsoft instead of Apple (I apologize for people that are going to be very tired of reading this type of statement from me), they would be fined and pitchforks would be drawn. Why do they get a pass?

    * I do not work for and I am not affiliated with Microsoft in any way other than being a user of their products and earn a living administering systems based on their products, although not exclusive to Microsoft's products.

    Dave
    Dave, the one thing that always stands out in my mind, to describe Apple culture in a nutshell, is "control freak". Of course, that comes directly from Jobs. It's his way or the highway. His mindset permeates Apple. Their user forums are overseen with an iron fist. Apple habitually keeps quiet about the status of updates that are needed to fix serious "dot oh" software versions, such as 3.0 for iPhone/Touch. Nothing about their actions has ever endeared them to me, as a consumer. Consequently, they will never see me purchase anything from them but some iPods. NO iPhone. No computers. No routers. I'm not even comfortable owning iPods, knowing that they come from Apple, but I like iPods too much to "bite my nose..."
  6. DKatman's Avatar
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    #6  
    And I completely read this thread from you as coming from the right place. I understand your point.

    In general, I just can't get over how good the kool-aid is there that so many people drink it up.

    I mean, sure the ipod is fine, but it is just a music player. Turning it into a culture is pure marketing genius.

    But the Arrogance alone is probably the fight. I mean, the management decisions to fight it are probably coming from people who know the inside culture that you describe and are using this as their own challenge to it. Who knows what internal memos ever went out saying something like "we need to make sure we squelch this before it becomes known and we have to answer for it", where it becomes unfair business practices that someone like the EU is just waiting to go after.

  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by DKatman View Post
    And I completely read this thread from you as coming from the right place. I understand your point.

    In general, I just can't get over how good the kool-aid is there that so many people drink it up.

    I mean, sure the ipod is fine, but it is just a music player. Turning it into a culture is pure marketing genius.

    But the Arrogance alone is probably the fight. I mean, the management decisions to fight it are probably coming from people who know the inside culture that you describe and are using this as their own challenge to it. Who knows what internal memos ever went out saying something like "we need to make sure we squelch this before it becomes known and we have to answer for it", where it becomes unfair business practices that someone like the EU is just waiting to go after.

    ah, if I read you correctly, basically you are saying the mucky mucks at Palm are rebels? Don't they have a former Apple dude working for them now? Some hot shot?
  8. DKatman's Avatar
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    #8  
    HA! I believe it is several and the Palm CEO was a co developer of the ipod (or I have no reading comprehension. I am sure that is what I read.).
  9. Jordus's Avatar
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    #9  
    I enjoy what Palm is doing because Apples anti-competitive BS needs to be brought into the lime light.

    Microsoft is anticompetitive on more products than Apple is, but the products that Apple are anticompetitive on they are 100 times worse than Microsoft ever thought about being.
  10. jeffgus's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aridon View Post
    Personally I think Palm would be better served in the long run to just develop their own syncing program.
    They did create their own syncing program. It is called the Pre. Why should Apple care *where* the iTunes library files are *read*? If Palm writes their own sync program all they are doing is moving the process of reading the files to the computer instead of the Pre. Why do that? Isn't it more simple for users if the device just understood the files in the first place? That way no translation processing is required. Blackberry's solution is more cumbersome. Just have *iTunes* copy the files over to the device and you're done!

    Apple is just wants to **** of their customers that purchased songs on their iTunes store. They think they can get away with it because the number of Pre's out there is much, much smaller than the number of iPods.
  11. #11  
    I can't help but think that this is all just great publicity for Palm. I have to think that they were prepared for Apple to block the Pre, maybe even wanted it to happen. Look how quickly Palm fixed it. Lots of talk about Palm vs Apple will sell more Pres. Everyone loves an underdog.
  12. Rhody's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordus View Post
    I enjoy what Palm is doing because Apples anti-competitive BS needs to be brought into the lime light.
    It doesn't hurt that Palm's name is being brought into the lime light at the same time, huh?
  13. #13  
    I have to agree that I think they expected Apple to do this and were prepared to fix things again. The more times that Apple tries to block them out, the more it validates Palm as competition and in my opinion makes Apple seem like the petty ones. I don't think I know of any company that has gotten a bad reputation for itself for trying to hack around another company's limitations to give their users a better experience.

    (Well, some of their users, I'm not a fan of iTunes at all, but I think it's a necessity for some.)

    To those who say "Palm should write their own sync application"... uh would you rather have them spend time on fixing bugs and improving their phone or wasting their time on a desktop media sync when there's so many out there already? Changing the vendor ID was probably a couple minute fix.

    It's not like Palm has unlimited resources like a Microsoft or an Apple.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    It doesn't hurt that Palm's name is being brought into the lime light at the same time, huh?
    IMO bad Press is still good press or basically anyone talking about the Pre in the same article as Apple can have Positive results...it puts the pre into the heads of more readers.
  15. #15  
    Say what you want but itunes is popular and the pre interfacing with it is a good thing for many people.
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  16. Bri2e's Avatar
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    #16  
    Apple is hurting themselves. I have spent a ton of money at the istore on music that won't work on my Pre. Now that I have a Pre, I will never buy another song or video from the istore because it only works with my ipod and itunes. If these files worked on my Pre, I would keep buying them from the istore. I have probably spent $75 with amazon for mp3 files since I got my Pre.
  17. #17  
    This is a lose-lose situation. Apple will be seen by more people as the hard-core protectionist company that they are and Palm will be seen by more people as that cheezy little company that tried to leech off of Apple's hard work for free. As easy as it is to build sync software that simply uses iTunes' file system (instead of the actual, proprietary program), it's a silly thing for Palm to risk having nothing to sync with while Apple continues to grow and make $Billions regardless of Palm's actions.
  18. #18  
    This whole thing of Apple doing an update that resulted in the Pre no longer having access and then Palm doing an update that restores the Pre's ability--well, I laughed. I see it as Palm needling Apple. Funny in an odd way.

    Or maybe I need some time away from the Palm drama.
  19. #19  
    I went back and read the release by Apple about iTunes and 3rd party usage. They never said that the Pre or any other 3rd party couldn't use the software. Actually this is what they said.

    "Apple designs the hardware and software to provide seamless integration of the iPhone and iPod with iTunes, the iTunes Store, and tens of thousands of apps on the App Store. Apple is aware that some third-parties claim that their digital media players are able to sync with Apple software. However, Apple does not provide support for, or test for compatibility with, non-Apple digital media players and, because software changes over time, newer versions of Apple's iTunes software may no longer provide syncing functionality with non-Apple digital media players."

    All they are saying here is they might change the software and it is not up to them to see if other media players work with the updates. Which makes me think that Palm took what they said to mean that they had to fix it to work with iTunes.

    By the way, here is the link to Apples comments.

    iTunes: About unsupported third-party digital media players
  20. burnsie28's Avatar
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    #20  
    I don't think Apple should be able to block what we plug in especially for those of us that actually pay for our music even Amazon music uses I tunes most often.
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