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  1. #21  
    I have to state one fact:

    What is to stop Apple from screwing up Palm big time by delivering a virus to the Pre once we plug into iTunes.

    How is Palm going to deal with Apple rendering all Pre's useless with this childish game.

    And Apple would be in their right to deliver a virus or something of that nature.

    Has anyone even thought of that yet?

    Palm thinks this is fun, but the party will be over when Apple does something like this to our Pre's. Then what is Palm going to do?

    Rob
    Robert L
    Astoria Queens, N.Y.C
    - Palm Pre (Sprint) - formally Palm Treo 650
    Version 1.4.1.1
    Sprint Configuration 2.3
    Model: P100EWW
    Hardware Version: A
    Firmware: CC1.4(510)

  2. Jordus's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    And Apple would be in their right to deliver a virus or something of that nature.

    No, it would not.

    Thats like saying someone who writes a virus for OSX is within their right to distribute it to any mac that connects to the internet.

    Why does everyone think Apple gets a golden get-out-of-jail-free card on everything. Poor Microsoft gets nailed for even the tiniest crap
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    What is to stop Apple from screwing up Palm big time by delivering a virus to the Pre once we plug into iTunes.
    Grounds for an easy lawsuit... it is not permissible to set up protection that is destructive to private property. Plus intentionally distributing a virus is itself an offense...

    A better question would be: What is to stop Apple from accusing (sueing) Palm of a DMCA breach... or "unauthorized hacking/entry of a computer network"?
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    I have to state one fact:

    What is to stop Apple from screwing up Palm big time by delivering a virus to the Pre once we plug into iTunes.

    How is Palm going to deal with Apple rendering all Pre's useless with this childish game.

    And Apple would be in their right to deliver a virus or something of that nature.

    Has anyone even thought of that yet?

    Palm thinks this is fun, but the party will be over when Apple does something like this to our Pre's. Then what is Palm going to do?

    Rob

    WRONG. Apple would not be in their right to "deliver a virus". That's the most absurd thing I've heard on this forum in a while, and I've heard some pretty goofy things.
  5. Jordus's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    A better question would be: What is to stop Apple from accusing (sueing) Palm of a DMCA breach... or "unauthorized hacking/entry of a computer network"?
    Probably the fact that iTunes is not a computer network.
  6. s219's Avatar
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    #26  
    I don't know about a virus, but the next time iTunes is used to deliver a firmware update to iPods, it will be interesting to see what it does to the Pre now that it's identifying itself not only as an iPod, but also as an Apple-made device. I think the firmware updates are smart enough to figure it out, but hey, maybe Apple will just take the USB IDs at face value...

    I do think it's cheeky of Palm to complain to the USB Forum, preemptively telling on Apple, when Palm was the one that broke the rule. It just seems childish to me. Palm is better than that, and they need to act like it.
  7. #27  
    Just as goofy as Palm lying to iTunes software that the Pre is an iPod!
    Robert L
    Astoria Queens, N.Y.C
    - Palm Pre (Sprint) - formally Palm Treo 650
    Version 1.4.1.1
    Sprint Configuration 2.3
    Model: P100EWW
    Hardware Version: A
    Firmware: CC1.4(510)

  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    Just as goofy as Palm lying to iTunes software that the Pre is an iPod!
    Exactly. How lame! Wouldn't you think that any company with any self respect wouldn't resort to such childish nonsense?
  9. #29  
    Has anyone taken a deep breath and thought just how "Apple iPhone" this viral marketing approach is ... remember when the iPhone first came out, it was first rooted and the network buzzed about whether big bad Apple was going to block the homebrew folks. It's not as if Apple ever really succeeded - but its great word of mouth marketing!

    Skip forward to 2009 ... Palm has the new phone. Unfortunately for Palm (but great for us!!!) you don't need to jailbreak this phone because this phone is designed from the ground up for the homebrew community. So where is the buzz? Thank you Apple!

    I am still have having a bit of problem believing that Apple is so willingly helping Palm in this regard, but is there really a downside for Palm. All the Apple fanboys out there will continue to whine about the Pre whether it can sync to iTunes or not. Meantime, the buzz is there - and Palm is NOT the big evil company taking its customers rights away - iTunes is a conduit for Apple to market to a relatively captive marketplace. If Apple really wants to kick a bunch of new customers out the door - thanks Apple for reminding people that you are, dare I say it, concerned about the Pre.

    As for Palm - keep fighting the good fight ... I'm grabbing my son this afternoon and going to buy another Pre. Thanks Apple!
  10. #30  
    It's not right for Pre to 'break the law' because they believe Apple is doing so. Ethics/integrity is huge for a lot of people and so it's ok for Palm to be aggressive but not ok to act without ethics (even if they feel Apple is doing so too). It could really hurt Palm's brand in the long term if people feel that they would do anything in order to survive. Again, even if you feel Apple is evil, bad, unfair, monopolistic, etc that does mean Palm should act unethically.

    If someone commits a crime we have the judicial system and other avenues to tackle this - taking the law into ones hand, or worse breaking it, is rarely advisable.
  11. #31  
    What 'law' did Palm break? Is there anything in the iTunes Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Agreements that prevent what Palm did - Nope. Does the TOS or AUS prevent a non-Apple device from using iTunes - Nope. Is there a law (not a contract, a law) that says that Palm cannot use someone else's Vendor ID - NO!

    Palm pointed out that Apple is in violation of the USB Interoperability agreement by improper use of the Vendor ID to 'prevent inoperability.' Palm went further by changing the Pre Vendor ID to Apple to demonstrate this fact and re-level the USB playing field.

    If anyone has something to loose here, I would think it would be Apple. Palm doesn't build computers so the inability to claim USB interoperability (the really big contractual punishment we are talking about here) would not seem to be as big a deal to Palm as it is to Apple.

    No - my opinion here remains 'Way to go Palm!' - Palm did nothing to 'break the law' (IMHO - I am not a lawyer, so my opinions are just that - opinions).

    Finally as a total aside, I want to publicly thank both Apple for inspiring me to purchase a additional Pre and Best Buy for rewarding my Palm loyality today with a $99 Pre for my son.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cuspie View Post
    What 'law' did Palm break? Is there anything in the iTunes Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Agreements that prevent what Palm did - Nope. Does the TOS or AUS prevent a non-Apple device from using iTunes - Nope. Is there a law (not a contract, a law) that says that Palm cannot use someone else's Vendor ID - NO!

    Palm pointed out that Apple is in violation of the USB Interoperability agreement by improper use of the Vendor ID to 'prevent inoperability.' Palm went further by changing the Pre Vendor ID to Apple to demonstrate this fact and re-level the USB playing field.

    If anyone has something to loose here, I would think it would be Apple. Palm doesn't build computers so the inability to claim USB interoperability (the really big contractual punishment we are talking about here) would not seem to be as big a deal to Palm as it is to Apple.

    No - my opinion here remains 'Way to go Palm!' - Palm did nothing to 'break the law' (IMHO - I am not a lawyer, so my opinions are just that - opinions).

    Finally as a total aside, I want to publicly thank both Apple for inspiring me to purchase a additional Pre and Best Buy for rewarding my Palm loyality today with a $99 Pre for my son.
    If you need Apple to inspire you to buy another Pre then you must have some kind of inferiority complex. Buy Pre on it's merits (which are many) and not because you need to feel 'good' about going against Apple.

    Your other logic is flawed but that's ok. To quote you: "...Palm went further by changing the Pre Vendor ID to Apple...". If you feel that it's ethical for Pre to do this then there's no point in you and I arguing. We'll have to agree to disagree on what's ethical. Even if Pre is not breaking the 'law' that does not make it ok for them to pretend to be what they are not. It's a grey area that a company like Palm with such a powerful brand (and product) does not need to play in...

    The pre has many great qualities as a product. There's no need for them to pretend to be someone else just like there's no need for you to get a Pre simply because Apple has 'inspired' you. But to each his/her own.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    It's not right for Pre to 'break the law' because they believe Apple is doing so.
    ...
    There's no crime involved, and no law being broken. The issues are based on agreements, not laws.

    I think there's more going on behind the scenes here. I suspect Palm CEO Ruby has some "inside information" on Apple's early decisions on how they used the USB standards, and specifically on whether or not they (Apple) might have been in violation of the agreemnts. I suspect that Palm has been pushing this to get in a position to file a complaint all along.
  14. #34  
    Screw apple. WTG palm for sticking it in their eyes. Apple needs some anti-trust suits to match Microsoft.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There's no crime involved, and no law being broken. The issues are based on agreements, not laws.

    I think there's more going on behind the scenes here. I suspect Palm CEO Ruby has some "inside information" on Apple's early decisions on how they used the USB standards, and specifically on whether or not they (Apple) might have been in violation of the agreemnts. I suspect that Palm has been pushing this to get in a position to file a complaint all along.
    hparson, couldn't Palm have filed a complaint against Apple without taking the additional step of fooling itunes to believe that the Pre is made by Apple? It's ok to file a complaint against Apple or any other company that might violate a standard (or 'agreement' as you call it). But violating the standard yourself is not the right approach if you're trying to take the high ground. Why is this concept difficult to follow?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    hparson, couldn't Palm have filed a complaint against Apple without taking the additional step of fooling itunes to believe that the Pre is made by Apple? It's ok to file a complaint against Apple or any other company that might violate a standard (or 'agreement' as you call it). But violating the standard yourself is not the right approach if you're trying to take the high ground. Why is this concept difficult to follow?
    I don't know, and really can't say. However, it may have been to prove, publicly that the standards were being violated. I don't know, and it's really just speculation on everyone's part (except those involved).

    Personally, I don't use iTunes, and really don't have dog in this hunt, but I think it's interesting to watch unfold.
  17. zacarias's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1812dave View Post
    seems so bush league, does it not? Childish, AAMOF, IMO. Palm didn't create iTunes and should try to make a product that stands ON IT'S OWN MERITS!

    Does it matter? I mean, really?


    A lot of people use iTunes. Why not allow your device to sync to it?
  18. #38  
    Good for Palm. Show those bastards how to play. When they break it again, call yourself an iPod and get right back in. I don't think this back and forth has any real consequences, but at least it makes things interesting.

    Too bad iTunes sucks though. Once you surrender your media files to it, you're forever stuck using it. To hell with that in a world where I can get a linux shell prompt on my phone.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by dfine1966 View Post
    I went back and read the release by Apple about iTunes and 3rd party usage. They never said that the Pre or any other 3rd party couldn't use the software. Actually this is what they said.
    ...
    That may be what they said in the release quoted, but to claim "they never said" is a bit of stretch.

    Here's what they said in the 8.2.1 update information.
    iTunes 8.2.1 provides a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple devices.
    I suspect (and again, just an opinion) this is exactly the type of claim that Palm was looking for to show that Apple was deliberately blocking use of other devices. That's the basis of Palm's USB agreement violation claims.
  20. d94
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    #40  
    go palm! i sync my music with itunes..so its been easy for me all along
    i think its great they're sticking this up apple's nose
    palm pro > visor > m100 > visor prism > clie sl30 > zire 71 > dell X5 > toshiba E755 > clie NX70 > ipaq 2200 > Treo 700w (verizon) > Treo 700wx (sprint) > Treo 755p (sprint) > HTC Mogul > HTC Diamond > HTC Touch Pro > Pre
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